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-   -   Married and lonely (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=7614)

1aokgal 23rd November 2011 11:36 PM

Re: Married and lonely
 
Chamomile..

Thanks for your level way to look at things as you are always concise. My take on this is pretty narrow in the use of porn as a marital additive. We can only give FB as we see it , but on this forum from a christian prospective, there really is only one way to see this subject by how we interpret the marital relationship and Gods' intent. I am not privy to Gods' intent but I think nowhere is the bedroom to contain more than the married couple. There can't be others included in the area. It is not a ball field with other players!

We don't want the poster, been there, to leave this site by any means. The problem is she advocated this for others. I think she makes not only a personal mistake, but she questions others who don't include films in their marital sex. I think she has been sold a bill of goods by someone she loves and trusts, her husband. Including sex videos in the bedroom has opened a terrible door and she is advocating that is acceptable for married couples. It is not OK for a Christian couple to consider this is a normal activity.

The problem is, that a wife can be frisky and accomadating...which is fine in a marriage, but there is also a line where it crosses the boundaries. The porn video in the bedroom enters another area of sexuality that is unnatural and threatens the sanctity of the marriage itself. The vision of other womens' nude bodies having active sex in a video is lewd and obscene. That does not add to the sexual union , but detracts from the marriage in intent between one man and one woman.
That is one issue.

The other issue, is the fact this purchase money flows into the coffers of organized crime which supports money laundering, prostitution, drugs trade, and often young sex trafficed victims are forced to perform in these productions. They are not there by choice. The production companies in this porn industry recently was shut down by the health dept. in Calif. while investigation tracked down multiple HIV exposed performers. One HIV positive male in the sex industry had exposed hundreds of women partners, as they film them with 7/10 partners in daily filming. Unsavory statistics but true.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellnes...ry?id=14203907

A woman who loves a man doesn't let that man lead her into acts that reduce the marital bed to a cat house. We understand the concept of sexuality as it applies to those who share a life in marriage. Unfortunately, this practice distorts that concept. My relative allowed her husband of 25 years to include such sexual paraphanalia between them. Later, it also included another woman into the bedroom. That was a 25 year duration triangle spoken of here.

Forgive me for being redundant here. This subject is too vital to leave it just as a matter of opinion. I must put forth the effort that all here be aware of the ramifications of this terrible choice. My apology to beenthere, for I have no personal axe to grind, but want to let her know the slope is slippery and the fall tragic on such a path. Thank you, Raymond, from your post from the male point of view as this isn't about being narrow minded or frigid, it is about the danger to ones' immortal soul. Chosen, you have the picture and we appreciate your opinion of this subject and supporting biblical texts.

As to how beenthere sees this, what she does in privacy she chooses. But, here, there is a responsibility that we share to help others not make mistakes they forever regret. She said she has no interest in the data concerning the harm done by this 13 billion dollar sex empire. There is also the fact these performers perform often unnatural acts and expose indecent behavior in these videos into a Christian bedroom. I question why that is not relavent to consider this unhealthy behavior? Others should think carefully, if this is what they want in their relationship. Maybe a taste for such activity, by a man or a woman, changes that person and they begin to question whether a marriage should be monogomaous or anything goes. What do others think about this subject?

chosen 24th November 2011 10:53 AM

Re: Married and lonely
 
It depends on how 'accomodating' that we should be with a spouse. I am happy to do most things with my husband but if he were to ask for something that wasnt right, such as porn, then I would say no. Just as I would say no if another person was included. To me, watching naked people on porn isnt that far removed from the real thing. Just because we today can bring in other people to our bedrooms via films etc doesnt make it less serious in my view.

I do think that there are some things that we do need to speak up about, and that we should never compromise about, and this is one of them. Porn use is always negative and harmful in the end. Its evil in every way and benefits no body.I heard recently that a very large percentage of women who act in porn movies were sexually abused as children. How tragic. They are damaged women causing more damage by what they do.

A marriage bed is for the man and wife, their focus needs to be 100% on each other, and other people in person or in films should never be part of their sex lives.

If we imagined Jesus sitting there in person(and of course He is there)would we still think that porn was ok? Would we be happy to look at porn then? We need to remeber that He IS always with us, even when we have sex, and that He sees everything. This is why porn use is so damaging for the one watching it, because The Holy Spirit will withdraw and wont look at it. It will deeply affect the one watching it and their relationship with God, and the longer it goes on the more distant the porn user will get from God. Its tragic and please dont anyone get into it.

Chamomile 24th November 2011 11:10 AM

Re: Married and lonely
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1aokgal (Post 67401)

beenthere had no interest in the data concerning the harm done by this 13 billion dollar sex empire. There is also the fact these performers perform often unnatural acts and expose indecent behavior in these videos into a Christian bedroom. I question why that is not relavent to consider this unhealthy behavior? Others should think carefully if this is what they want in their relationship. Maybe a taste for such activity, by a man or a woman, changes that person and they begin to question whether a marriage should be monogomaous or anything goes. What do others think about this subject?

Hi 1aokgal

Yes, I quite understand where you're coming from.

But I quite understand where beenthere is coming from as well. If she's trying to accommodate her H that way occasionally, to maintain marital bliss, then I find this to be perfectly OK. "After 20 years of marriage" she says. That explains her situation clearly. They must be doing OK and if that helps avoid a divorce etc?

Sometimes, we unintentionally shoot down newcomers too soon and I'm just saying we might want to welcome new peeps.

No offense to you xx

Chamomile 24th November 2011 11:25 AM

Re: Married and lonely
 
Hi Chosen

Have you read US Pastor's book called "Laugh your way to a better marriage" bu Mark Gungor? He does mention about Porno. If he was lecturing in UK, I'd sure visit his workshop!!

I hear you. I do know what you're saying :)

This lady is obviously in a situation where her H entertains Porn and she's trying to keep her marriage with this H in a more dignified way. I personally think she's making her own compromise for the sake of marital accord more than anything else. Perhaps, we could have broached the subject with the newcomer in a more compassionate way. After all, if she was a Christian, then we are all here to learn and gain insight as we are?

Hugs xx

Raymond 24th November 2011 02:19 PM

Re: Married and lonely
 
I won't say anything here. 1okgal and Chosen have said it all for me brilliantly.

I do know that there are thousands of christian males in this country who are having counselling and deliverance in trying to free themselves of this stuff, as it can be addictive. I think in a very real way these women are coming into the bedroom through a sexual gateway.

I don't think Beenthere is evil just naive.

1aokgal 24th November 2011 04:41 PM

Re: Married and lonely
 
Hi Raymond and Chamomile..

Beenthere is making a compromise to please her husband. So did my sister-in-law and then it was mags, pharaphenalia, and videos. The taste can accelerate as the desire for porn increases and normal sexuality is desensitized. That is the problem.

I just hope others here, and she, will review the data and the intent of the postings to rethink this position. Obviously, after 20+ years she has a marriage that has endured. I hope she accepts that we do not judge her personally. It is my hope all the facts are known on this subject. Porn is not a condom regulated industry so the performers must now submit to monthly tests for sexually transmitted diseases. Do we want them in our bedroom to perform?
Chamomile, your point is well taken that we want to be cordial to a poster. xoox
1AOKGAL

Chamomile 25th November 2011 11:02 AM

Re: Married and lonely
 
Hi aokgal xx

I hear you :)

Hope this lady will return sometimes. We all make mistakes xxx

1aokgal 25th November 2011 05:51 PM

Re: Married and lonely
 
Hi Chamomile..

I would feel so badly if benthere thinks I don't admire her long term Christian marriage and her devotion to her husband to be a sexy woman and keep the romance intact. Aren't we, here, all about making the home and marriage the focal point in our lives as we try to keep balance about all the other responsibilities placed upon us?

Those of us who have been here awhile realize there will be differences of opinion, as we are from different countries with different culteral norms/practices, but we do share a focal point in faith. It is in that faith and how we apply it to our lives, that we are mostly on the same path, right? It is true that what drew us to this place may have been a search for understanding and help to overcome some personal problems. Maybe most of us stay for the community and to extend help to others.

I admire a few here who showed extreme persistence to deal with some painful situation in their marriage and I learn from them. I also feel a deep connection to a few of you here. Thanks so much for your friendship. I gained enormously from your help and understanding. I would say it is a good thing to feel richer for your input.

I hope beenthere will rethink the position we differed about. I pray her marriage will be a joy for her.

Here in America, today is the day after our celebration of Thanksgiving. It was a wonderful day of food and family with my roast turkeyw/dressing, followed by Pumpkin pie and my daughters' quite fabulous Pumpkin Cheesecake. It couldn't be better. She is quite the baker and they were here. We got a lot accomplished, as my grandaugher and I spent some time at the piano. She picks up quickly so a few hours later she is picking out the tune. Meantime my daughter and husband did cleanup kitchen time. She even stayed to organize one cabinet there, as she is an OCD person. Everything hit the trash can without a current expiration date! I loved that help.

You, in UK/other places, don't know what you missed! Of course, you also don't have a scale that shows a two pound gain either. :-(
I realize at times I, personally, might lack some tact/diplomacy in my posting, but it has never been my intent to hurt another.
So I hope our posters will accept the viewpoints shared here and not feel this community is hostile.
America today is full of crazy shoppers out there searching for the perfect gifts for others for Christmas. The most perfect gift we can give each other here is acceptance.
Thanks for your feedback..as always accepted in spirit in which it is offered.
1AOKGAL

Chamomile 30th November 2011 11:12 AM

Re: Married and lonely
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1aokgal (Post 67442)
Hi Chamomile..

I would feel so badly if benthere thinks I don't admire her long term Christian marriage and her devotion to her husband to be a sexy woman and keep the romance intact. Aren't we, here, all about making the home and marriage the focal point in our lives as we try to keep balance about all the other responsibilities placed upon us?

Those of us who have been here awhile realize there will be differences of opinion, as we are from different countries with different culteral norms/practices, but we do share a focal point in faith. It is in that faith and how we apply it to our lives, that we are mostly on the same path, right? It is true that what drew us to this place may have been a search for understanding and help to overcome some personal problems. Maybe most of us stay for the community and to extend help to others.

I admire a few here who showed extreme persistence to deal with some painful situation in their marriage and I learn from them. I also feel a deep connection to a few of you here. Thanks so much for your friendship. I gained enormously from your help and understanding. I would say it is a good thing to feel richer for your input.

I hope beenthere will rethink the position we differed about. I pray her marriage will be a joy for her.

Here in America, today is the day after our celebration of Thanksgiving. It was a wonderful day of food and family with my roast turkeyw/dressing, followed by Pumpkin pie and my daughters' quite fabulous Pumpkin Cheesecake. It couldn't be better. She is quite the baker and they were here. We got a lot accomplished, as my grandaugher and I spent some time at the piano. She picks up quickly so a few hours later she is picking out the tune. Meantime my daughter and husband did cleanup kitchen time. She even stayed to organize one cabinet there, as she is an OCD person. Everything hit the trash can without a current expiration date! I loved that help.

You, in UK/other places, don't know what you missed! Of course, you also don't have a scale that shows a two pound gain either. :-(
I realize at times I, personally, might lack some tact/diplomacy in my posting, but it has never been my intent to hurt another.
So I hope our posters will accept the viewpoints shared here and not feel this community is hostile.
America today is full of crazy shoppers out there searching for the perfect gifts for others for Christmas. The most perfect gift we can give each other here is acceptance.
Thanks for your feedback..as always accepted in spirit in which it is offered.
1AOKGAL

Dearest 1aokgal xx

Sorry I didn't see your post sooner. You're such a sweet person xoxoxox I was put off by the troll post earlier;) Apologies for delays in replying.

Yes, Thanksgiving can be a curse when it comes to some weight gain. :p I know what you mean by gorgeous home made pumpkin pie/cheese cake etc. They are quite nice as they are not too sweet.

There's nothing wrong with a bit of OCD. My H tells me it's my OCD when I need to leave my wheelie bin in a precise manner :o

I'm sure beenthere will return when she feels like it. Hope so :)

Hugs xxxx

1aokgal 30th November 2011 06:33 PM

Re: Married and lonely
 
Chamomile...

I hope she returns as well. beenthere should share her other ideas as to how her marriage has lasted so many years. We all want to be a community here, though we sometimes differ sharply. Nobody wants to hurt anothers' feelings or act like we are superior people who know it all. :-(

You are such a neat person, Chamomile. How I would love a trip to London with you to go to tea! I bought some beautiful dishes last month that I admired for about five years. That wonderful Ebay had a good buy on service for four.

If you were here in US, you would always have an invite to test them out with goodies and tea! Have a great day. :-)

George 19th December 2011 05:47 PM

Re: Married and lonely
 
Let me say first, that I agree 100% about the evil effect of porn and that it has no place in a marriage, especially a Christian marriage. The reasons given I wholeheartedly agree with and have been eloquently put. However this thread raises another interesting point for me with regard to a wife being "accommodating" to her husband in the bedroom.

I wasn't aware from a Christian point of view that any person should be accommodating - don't you need to be your own person and not be talked into things you wouldn't have thought of and wouldn't have dreamt of doing ?

My wife, who is a Christian, was clear from the start. No contraception, no intercourse unless for the purposes of procreation (marriage not consummated for 5 years, after that we have had relations half a dozen times or so over a further14 years and have 2 children), no kissing, no lights on to avoid revealing any flesh, no oral sex etc.. etc.. She is happy to use her hands to caress though, although I am not allowed to reciprocate.

Are all these restrictions a passion killer ? Does it leave me feeling somewhat lonely in the marriage? Absolutely, however as a Christian man, am I allowed to ask her to be "accommodating" and suggest we spice things up by leaving the lights on for example, or even blatantly just leave them on ? Isn't that just selfish, disregarding and disrespecting the other person ? I know that if I did that and she said yes, I really wouldn't want to do it anyway, because I would know she didn't really want to and was just being accommodating.

So it seems to me that if you're not both on the same page immediately and instinctively, then there is no place for being "accommodating".

chosen 19th December 2011 06:06 PM

Re: Married and lonely
 
george. goodness your wife sounds incredibly sexually repressed. God made sex for our enjoyment within marriage and it should be a time of great loving and giving and enjoyment for both spouses. Did you know that she felt this way before you married her? Has she read song of songs, which is very erotic and is a great teaching on sex between 2 people?
Hasnt she read the part when the Bible tells us that we must not deprive each other of sex?Are you saying that you have only had sex a few times in 19 years?

My guess is that she is Catholic, and that she has also been taught that sex is dirty and wrong except for having children. How very sad and how much you are both missing. Have you ever told her how sad this all makes you feel?

George 19th December 2011 06:52 PM

Re: Married and lonely
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chosen (Post 68101)
george. goodness your wife sounds incredibly sexually repressed. God made sex for our enjoyment within marriage and it should be a time of great loving and giving and enjoyment for both spouses. Did you know that she felt this way before you married her? Has she read song of songs, which is very erotic and is a great teaching on sex between 2 people?
Hasnt she read the part when the Bible tells us that we must not deprive each other of sex?Are you saying that you have only had sex a few times in 19 years?

My guess is that she is Catholic, and that she has also been taught that sex is dirty and wrong except for having children. How very sad and how much you are both missing. Have you ever told her how sad this all makes you feel?

Hello Chosen. Yes, we've only had sex a few times over 19 years in order to have children. My wife became pregnant quickly both times,so there was no need to do it more often. In fact she isn't Catholic, although her parents were both ministers in a Protestant church, which I'm sure led to her views on many things, and she is a good Christian woman. I don't know if she's read the Song of Songs or not, although it's something I myself have not read. I did point out the passage in Corinthians to her this year as a matter of fact, as I found a translation of it on here from Raymond which I'd never seen before, but nothing has changed as a result. The original old fashioned translation - "let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence, and likewise the wife unto the husband" doesn't really get the message across. I never read any of that to mean anything to do with sex and I think she has the same opinion rather than taking on board any modern new-fangled translation.

I didn't know she felt this way before we were married, but I did know she was a devout Christian, which meant there was nothing physical going on at all before we were married.

After the initial shock on honeymoon, I'm not sure I would say the situation makes me feel "sad" - after all you don't really miss what you've never had do you ? But I do feel a lack of intimacy - we could be brother and sister really, which does make me feel lonely from time to time.

You haven't really answered my original question though about being "accommodating". This whole question is an interesting one for me. I don't "approach my wife for sex" - never really have done since the early weeks of the marriage - for the reason that that very step betrays the fact I have a desire, a need if you like and by definition, if she is going to satisfy that desire she is being accomodating. I feel that I shouldn't have that desire in the first place because it will put my wife in an awkward position (for her). I think this works the other way round too, if by some miracle she approached me for sex and I wasn't expecting it - which of course I wouldn't be - then if I agree to her approach I'm accommodating her aren't I? The scripture seems to support that you should be accommodating which I hadn't realised before, but then you have to ask where is the line drawn ? I would like the lights left on and to have a kiss - my wife doesn't want either, so I accommodate her otherwise aren't I being disrepectful and selfish ?

I know this all probably sounds unbelievably warped, but that's because it's all hypothetical to me.

chosen 19th December 2011 08:30 PM

Re: Married and lonely
 
Its normal to have sexual desire George. Its normal for a husband and wife to enjoy each other in bed, and frequently.
Its nothing to do with being a Christian because God invented sex for marriage, and we are supposed to have sex with each other. I have been a Christian for 30 years and was bought up to go to church, but I dont feel that way at all, and the Bible never says that you can only have sex to have children, that is gross distortion of what sex is about. You seem to think that its normal or even 'right', for Christian women to think the same as your wife, but I can assure you that it isnt normal at all or right. Its a total distortion of Gods teaching on sex. i cant believe that you have just accepted this for so long. We are supposed to do what we can to plese out spouses in sex as in the rest of life. Men especially find it very hard to emotionally connect with their wives if there is no sex, hense the feeling of being like brother and sister.

I think that after all these years, you need to approach this from the viewpoint of communicating about this initially, maybe in counselling, and this may well open a can of worms, but unless you want things to stay the same then you will need to do it. This is NOT normal behaviour for a Christian couple.
Please do get a good modern translation of the Bible, not one where you cant even understand what it is saying. It may help for her to have some counselling from a mature Christian married lady in your church, who hopefully can correct her very distorted beliefs. I suspect she got this from her parents,who clearly felt the same, but people can change if they see the truth.

Forever 19th December 2011 11:49 PM

Re: Married and lonely
 
Greetings George,

As far as being "accommodating" when it comes to sexual expression or desires, I would classify it much the same way as I would classify being "accommodating" to my spouse for his differences regarding food for instance. I am not going to dictate his particular times of hunger, nor his particular preferences...I am just going to make sure he gets what he wants even if I do not want the same thing for myself. Why? Because I love him and want his satisfaction. Otherwise I would be the selfish spouse. You are being starved on many different levels.

So you think you are being selfish for having desires that you wife does not have? How about she is being insensitive and selfish for knowing it about you and not giving in to your hearts desire from time to time? Why does everything have to be about her exclusively?

Part of sexual intimacy is exploring what the other person delights in and then be willing to provide it for them when they are interested in having it. This is no sin and should carry no stigma regardless of who initiates.

The fun thing about making love is that after one person takes the initiative, the other is then usually pulled or lured into that pleasure even if the idea does not originate from them at first. Why would someone want to label taking initiative for lovemaking in a negative light? That's like saying that if I sent out invitations for a dinner party, then I should suddenly feel guilty as if I should not have actually done that...even if my guest actually did show up. They are free to show up or to decline. They are "accommodating" to my invitation because they know that I am interested in sharing a great meal with them, and they are free to have fun or be bored.

We cant wait around for the one to have the same exact idea at the exact same time as the other...that is not reality.

Your wife is heavily oppressed...and lucky for her, you put up with it...and lucky for your children that she did not deny them the milk from her breast when they had need of it...it seems as if she has no interest in the needs of a man on the physical (sexual) level.

As for lights on or off, kissing or no kissing, oral or none...those are personal preferences and should be areas of negotiation...sometime you do it, other times not. How about using a soft candle instead of a light? How about you kissing her arms, legs, back and thighs instead of french kissing...how about she kisses your "member" instead of putting it in all the way into her mouth? There are compromises you know...and if she can be gracious enough to "accommodate" you with that, she may learn to enjoy it and who knows what else might develop over the course of time?

We all accommodate each other in various ways and for a variety of things...otherwise how can anyone be considered loving or giving or kind?

What is she so afraid of?


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