2-in-2-1 Discussion Forums

2-in-2-1 Discussion Forums (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/forums/index.php)
-   Marriage Help (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   I don't love my wife and never have... (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=2124)

chosen 11th October 2013 08:03 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
That's so encouraging sunny. I am so glad that you are finally seeing the positive and good things about her and not the bad and negative. We also change as we mature, and it sounds as if your wife is maturing now and realising what is important to her, and you as well. Keep up the good work, the best is yet to come I am sure of that.:)

Roses 13th October 2013 08:44 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Sunny

Likewise. Very pleased by your positive shift in your attitude. Also very glad for your wife as well.

I often wonder if other men do go through a similar type of process. It's always good to know you decided to stay.

Raymond 14th October 2013 11:40 AM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
That's good news Sunny. I won't be tempted to say wonderful. I remember saying that before and I don't want to tempt fate. But really you are seeing something here which is good. How loving on purpose can produce it's own spark and enduring flame out of faithfulness.

Raymond 15th October 2013 08:31 AM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
It can be learned Sunny. Even those who start out with passionate love have to learn it eventually. In the end it is the most enduring and dare I say it the most noble.

Raymond 16th October 2013 09:02 AM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Funny I just read these words in a book by Gerald Coates called Sexual Healing.

"Having strong feelings for someone isn't love - it is romanticism and is often deceptive. If we choose to do the right thing then the right feelings often follow. If we feed affections and emotions through fantasy or porn then we are playing with fire."

I feel you have to discover for yourself how to love her Sunny. Although it is the right thing to do and you agree to good advice there is still more that you need to discover. This is not a ball and chain we are talking about but a better marriage.

If you are really serious about loving her how about discovering what her love language is as a start?

Roses 17th October 2013 07:45 AM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sunny (Post 76803)
It's a great point, even though honestly I feel I've been trying to learn this for decades. I hope it's just that I'm a slow learner! But that's all this has been for me, loving on purpose, for all these years, and I think unfortunately I've come to look at it as a chore because I've never felt anything for her. It seems as though it would be so much easier to have the passion at the beginning, something to build on, look back upon with fondness. That love, 'the glue'- the connection, as I said before, supplying the drive to love on purpose. Without the drive it becomes very tiring.

I'm sure many would say it's not easier to share love at the start. I hope to find it in the middle as you did. Even if it never happens, I know the noble thing is to stay and be thankful for her companionship and keep this on the inside as I have. It just feels like a sad existence for both of us if this is the case.

I'll push forward with an open heart and mind. You put it so succinctly, loving on purpose. I'll continue to do so. Make it my mantra, for her and the kids and for me too.

Hi

Excellent advice, Mr Raymond. I might wish to / would like to read the book myself.

Sunny. It's not a bad thing that you are able to elaborate on where you are coming from. If you were feeling this way over the past couple of decades (and you had an affair as a result), obviously these are real issues for you.

You dismissed your negative feelings (towards your wife) as moments of "psychosis" before. I was wondering if you are or if you are not generally neurotic about things e.g. overly intellectual?

May I ask how long your affair had lasted. What stopped you from continuing this relationship? Did your wife find out? Did your "Mistress"/AP (Affair Partner) want more from you?

I'm totally sure that there are lots of men who feel the way you do about their marriage. We don't get to hear enough about what they/Men are feeling in public arena. Men do keep things to themselves don't they? So you are doing incredible work here.

Roses 17th October 2013 07:39 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sunny (Post 76809)
So now the issue lies squarely on my shoulders, letting go of our past, which was quite painful and I endured it unhappily for a very long time. I'm trying now to find the right feelings for her, and stumbling regularly as I do.

Hi Sunny

Excellent post.......! I think marriage is a complicated business, if I'm blatantly honest. Hope no one gets offended by me saying this..

Yes, you have said it repeatedly. You have great sex and your wife loves you so deeply but you don't seem to be able to let go of emotional difficulties from the past (which I do not believe to be unusual for Men).

I did mention earlier if you ever consider giving yourself and your wife a cooling down period - not meaning to be final, just giving each other some space to reflect and think.

In my own experience, it helped...if it's not for everyone. I often think giving each other some space is also an act of loving. I feel that we are all individuals and we all need some space from time to time, solo time with friends and family etc as well as doing things together. I am aware that there's a concept that leaving a husband all alone for too long would be too risky e.g. temptations. I do quite understand this.

I just feel that you may need some time to heal from the past emotional trauma and you need to be kind to yourself by giving yourself time to heal before trying to give.

Just my take on this. Take good care of yourself.

Raymond 17th October 2013 07:43 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Hi Sunny I had to be brief as I was rushing out to work.

Apparently we all have a prime love language. As well as general love which is important we each have a special love language which when used at the appropriate time touches us in a special way. If her/our particular love language is never used then we will feel that they don't really love us in a special way. We each tend to love in our own love language rather than the other persons because we think that is needed when in reality we need to love in the way they need.

The five languages are: Acts of Service, Touch (not sex) but hugs, holding hands etc. This was my wife's love language and I didn't realise it for a couple of years. When I started doing it or submitting to it I could see that it did wonders for her. Third is Gifts ( not necessarily big - it's the thought that counts). Then we have Quality Time and last but not least Words of Affirmation. One of these will be her prime love language which if used will go a long way in expressing love to her. It will be an act of love to find out her prime love language and try using it at an appropriate time. There is the book The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman.

One thing I have been thinking about is that you said you have spent years in trying to love her but I couldn't help noticing that you said you had tried to leave her was it sixteen times? So there were quite a lot of traumatic gaps where she had to beg you to stay. What I am trying to say is that it was not all love as that would have produced quite a lot of trauma and insecurity in the marriage as I am sure you realise. Would I be correct in saying that you spent a lot of this time trying to feel love instead of actually loving her. There is a big difference as I am sure you are beginning to understand as of late. Real love does not say what am I going to get out of this and real love is the only thing that honours the high calling marriage is. What we are saying is that if you sow the seeds of real love the feelings over time will follow. I know that you have helped her as a phsychologist might perhaps but to make a good marriage will take an investment of real love. In a way it is lose your life to save it but it will do something in you that will endure and cause your marriage to flourish for her sake and yours.

Roses 18th October 2013 10:41 AM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sunny (Post 76812)

I think my language of love is to be inspired by qualities that mystify me, qualities that I don't possess, ie an empowered woman, one who challenges me. A woman I look up to. With my wife, I often feel I know her better than she knows herself. She is a little lost sometimes, which inspires my protective instincts, but not love. I think I look down on her instead of seeing her strengths.

But I've also felt it would really help me see her in a different light, standing strong on her own two feet. Regardless, it's a moot point.

She is truly a good person and my best friend, which is what I think most everyone hopes their partner/marriage will evolve into through the years.

Hi Sunny

Excellent advice from Raymond as always.

Sunny, I don't think it is unusual for Men to want a woman who's self-led (or empowered) and strong. I seem to recall you describing your ex-"OW"possessing such character. I think this is something to do with Men who want to chase after rather than being chased.

You're probably a generous giver (and extremely conscientious and devoted) and you are giving out so much emotionally to meet the needs of your much improved wife. Perhaps, you might feel that your wife isn't giving what you really want in a fundamental way.

To be honest, I do have some hesitation to say this and sincerely hope I wouldn't be offending anyone at all. As anything in life, relationship(s) can indeed, get messy. It may evolve organically rather than in a neat, orderly way. You have attempted to leave her numerous times. Your wife clings to you out of insecurity. That isn't a very happy situation. This in turn, makes you feel somewhat trapped and suffocated.

I do think people generally want far more than "a good person" and "great friendship" in their life's partner, wife or h etc. I often think about the first time I was looking deeply into my h's eyes, the day when he turned up at my door to take me out and how he looked. I doubt if I would be able to stay with someone who was simply a good person and the "best friend" if I'm blatantly honest.

I also think that your wife may be under-estimating her ability to be a strong, empowered woman. Hope things will improve for you soon, Sunny.

Raymond 18th October 2013 01:20 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
It is easy to find fault with our wives and not honour our initial commitment of marriage. Every person has good and bad traits. Love covers our bad traits and appreciates the good ones so long as we are trying .I still think the problem here is romanticism which in reality would only last for a year or two at the most.

I just read this (yes I know I am always getting things from books)

"(After the euphoria wears off) if our spouse has learned to speak our love language, our need for love will continue to be satisfied. If, on the other hand, he or she does not speak our love language, our tank will slowly drain, and we will no longer feel loved. Meeting that need is a definite choice. If I learn the emotional love language of my spouse and speak it frequently.... when she comes down from the obsession of the in-love experience, she will hardly even miss it because her emotional love tank will continue to be filled. However, if I have not learned her primary love language or have chosen not to speak it, when she descends from the emotional high, she will have the natural yearnings of unmet emotional needs. After some years of living with an empty love tank, she will likely "fall in love" with someone else and the cycle will begin again."

"The Meaning of Marriage" by Timothy Keller but quoted from Gary Chapman

Maybe not exactly relevant to your situation Sunny but it does show the choice we have. You say you didn't have the in love experience to start with but you are nevertheless in the same position as thousands who face the choice of either working on their marriages or jacking it in to find romance based on just feelings and breaking a family in the process.

The book goes on about someone who leaves his spouse because of being in love. A lot later he complains the new woman was beginning to criticise him for exactly the same things as his wife used to. It looked like the new relationship was collapsing. Back at the counsellor:

The counsellor restated the paradigm - at first love sweeps you up involuntarily, but eventually love is a deliberate choice. It will seem mechanical at first, he reiterated, but if both spouses do it together, eventually the experience of being loved richly and well will sweeten their lives. The man recommitted himself to try, and nearly a year later he and his wife had a renewed marriage.

I think we have nearly all the mystery and challenge we need in a marriage relationship. It's how we see the other and the fault could be in us. We are vast countries inside. I continue to discover new aspects about my wife which I didn't see before.

I suppose I have cheated because I got the love from God in the first place. After having a terrible orphaned upbringing I was incapable of truly loving anyone.

chosen 19th October 2013 10:37 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
It seems that you want your wife to be strong, while she, like most women wants to be cared for and looked after. I am emotionally a very strong person, and had to be when I was a single mum of three for 6 years with no support at all, but I hated it, and when I met my husband and we married 9 months later, I loved being with him and feeling that I was being cared for again and that I was caring for him.
Most women, If they are REALLY honest, no matter how successful they may be in the worldy sense, (in their careers or financially) will say that they long to have a man to care for them and who they can lean on. Its in us.


I am not in agreement with separation at all, unless there is adultery or serious abuse, as usually they lead to divorce. In your case I think it would lead to you not wanting to try any more.

Raymond 21st October 2013 04:36 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
If she is doing her best to fill your love tank then that is both of you working on the marriage possibly Sunny? That is a recipe for success even though it might take time. I don't think it will work without a commitment though. There has to be some sort of security I would think to under gird things.

If she hasn't spoken your love language speak hers. Don't be in a position that she has to do it first. That would be a stalemate. I think wives particularly blossom with the right love. Don't penny pinch it. We only get one life to love.

Raymond 25th October 2013 08:47 AM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
If you don't really want to try but are trying then something is wrong. Somehow your head is turned and you are continually obsessing over her not being the right one. That is a tragedy and a lie. If you were able to put that behind you and accept your marriage I am sure you could have a wonderful satisfying marriage. You have to learn to forget the things that are past and press on with what you have been given which is an awful lot as far as I can see. Life is short Sunny. How much more of it do you have to waste?

Most of us would have suited quite a few other people but once we have chosen and married, these thoughts should be put aside. It is what you make it in the end. You have a woman who loves you and has given her life to you. Why can't you love her as she deserves? Any wife deserves the love of her husband.

chosen 25th October 2013 02:44 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
I have to agree with Raymond. Discontentment is a horrible thing, and always wanting something or someone else than who or what you have means you will never be happy.
True contentment is precious, and an acceptance of how things are, and a gratitude for what you have will change your perspective.
This unreal and imaginary possible relationship that you think you may have had with that other lady has only served to make you think that your wife isn't the one and that you can never love her. What you felt with that other lady wasnt real love, it was fantasy and imagined 'love', never put to the test. I doubt it would have lasted once the initial excitement wore off, and once the reality of real life stepped in.

Love is very hard to define. We can love people in many different ways, and few of them involved this passionate, lustful and exciting sort of love that you seem to always be seeking.

Roses 25th October 2013 07:17 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
I'm sure Sunny has his own personal reasons why he still stays with his wife after all these years besides his children.

I think it's some kind of love which kept you, Sunny stay with your wife no matter how discontent you say you have been. Have you ever spent a couple of weeks away from your wife? I'm sure you missed her.

Having said that the point of this thread is that there are men or women who never felt any emotional chemistry with their spouse to begin with and went on to get married and had children.

Realistically speaking, my love for my h is totally different now. Mine is more like friendship at best these days but I didn't like it at all when we were briefly separated. That's when I realized that love is so precious even when it's not like how we used to be.

Sometimes, it's hard to realize how much one loves someone until you are separated for a short time. I'm sure many of us are unhappy about our spouse habits and the way he/she is. Unfortunately, that's part of marriage. That's just how it is.

I get an impression that Sunny simply wants his freedom, a fantasy for a married man but at the same time, he MUST be getting something out of his marriage and he stays.
I don't think that's unusual either. There isn't any perfect marriage. That's simply a fact of life in my honest view.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:06 PM.

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.