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-   -   I don't love my wife and never have... (http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=2124)

Chamomile 6th October 2011 10:13 AM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Abely

Indeedy! :)
We are all in the same shoes, really. That's why I'm here..:o We all make mistakes every day and nothing is perfect, it's just a work in progress as Raymond said something similar on other thread.

gael 21st August 2013 01:34 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Hi, I am in a similar situation. I recently got married last month and I am really struggling.
I started dating my wife 18 months ago, but I never really attracted to her. I think the reason was that I was the only one in my friends circle that was single and was feeling the pressure. And I knew she really liked me. Anyhow the next 18 months were casual and good, I'm a fun outward person, whilst she lacks confidence, which I have always tried to help her with, so I was the one making jokes. .

Then she became friends with all of my friends wives and girlfriends and it got harder to break up, and I kept on trying to convince myself that this would work as it made sense on paper.
Earlier this year I moved to the middle east without her, and this was going to be my true test as if I missed her then I would know. I was faithful to her, and missed her on occasions, but I think this in hindsight was just homesickness.

Anyhow, in may this year, on a visit back home she told me that she is struggling to ovulate after a random test, and therefore couldn't have kids. I told her to get tested and we had unprotected sex. In June she told me was pregnant. Now being both Muslims, this was a massive sin, and one which I deeply regret as I feel guilty about. So we decided to rush through an islamic marriage (not legally recognized in the uk). A few days before the wedding we went thru with a termination, as we found out that if she was to come to the middle east legally unmarried and pregnant, then she would be deported or arrested.

This was initially a relief to me as it would have brought immense shame to our families, and I didn't want to be the reason for that, as my parents especially had been thru enough.

Now we're married and living together, and that little spark that we had whilst dating has completely gone. I can she loves me so much and I don't feel the same way and am very cold, although I try not to. I wake up everyday with knots in my stomach thinking "how have I ended up here?", and go into a negative spiral, and focus on everything I don't like about her, and then start thinking about ex girlfriends which I know is wrong (started reminded myself that they are exes for a reason). I spoke to her and said I was struggling with adjusting to marriage and could see her retreat back, and then I feel really guilty as I can see her little confidence disappearing. This is supposed to be the happiest time of her life and I am failing her as her husband. I want to make it work, but do not want to ruin either of our lives especially if we have fertility issues (I'm 29, and she is 31)

The last couple of days, I have been forcing myself to focus on positives, so whenever something negative comes in my mind i try to block it, but it is difficult. And I don't know how long I can keep it up.
I have never felt so low in all my life, and people around me are noticing that I am not myself.

I dont know what to do really and not sure what I am expecting from this post, but perhaps a place to vent will help. I will continue to pray that God can guide me thru this...

chosen 21st August 2013 03:49 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
gael it sounds to me that you are not actually married. A faith wedding alone isn't enough. Ist must be done legally for the country you are living in.

Raymond 21st August 2013 08:16 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
For all intensive purposes you are married although maybe not legally in this country. That is not the real issue.

I think you ought to work through it. You have a woman there who loves you and that is a good start. I think it would be dishonourable to just leave her as you are living as a married couple, have slept with her and got her pregnant.

I think you should love her on purpose and watch it grow. That is the more enduring love in the end anyway. That she loves you is half the job done. You just need to respond. I think it would be catastrophic for you to dump her after all you have done. You need to make a serious go of it and make a commitment in my opinion.

chosen 21st August 2013 11:57 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
I didn't realise that you could marry in the UK but ignore the legal part.

gael 22nd August 2013 06:04 AM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Legally we r still not married. However we both sat down and made an Islamic marriage contract in front of God, and are living as husband and wife so we are married. However, she wants us to go through with the civil ceremony as well (booked already in November!), and I don't want to if I am feeling this way, but haven't said anything yet.

I will try and continue with focusing on the positives, and see how things are in a few months.

Raymond 22nd August 2013 01:03 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chosen (Post 75866)
I didn't realise that you could marry in the UK but ignore the legal part.

No they are not legally maried regarding UK law but they are married because of their vows before God and their coming together. I don't think she should be put aside just because of that.

chosen 22nd August 2013 01:32 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gael (Post 75871)
Legally we r still not married. However we both sat down and made an Islamic marriage contract in front of God, and are living as husband and wife so we are married. However, she wants us to go through with the civil ceremony as well (booked already in November!), and I don't want to if I am feeling this way, but haven't said anything yet.

I will try and continue with focusing on the positives, and see how things are in a few months.

If you consider yourself married, then you need to go through the legal ceremony as well.
I am a Christian, but if I had only been married in a church but not married legally in the country I lived in, I would not consider myself properly married, because I wouldn't be. You have to do both.

chosen 21st September 2013 11:16 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Sunny
you say that you have a co-worker who is a beautiful woman inside and out, truly brilliant, funny, courageous and compassionate.
No, a woman who tries to make a man leave his wife and children and destroy a family is none of those things. She is selfish, immoral, self centered and has no integrity.
Also you really don't know her. You only know what she is like at work. You don't know her bad habits, or her weakness, or her faults, and we all have them. What you DO know is that she encourages men to leave their wives and children. A good person does not do that.
You are in love with being in love. You have to know someone to be in love. You think the grass is greener, but it isn't. Crying and saying her name over and over IS being unfaithful to the woman you married, as well as being very over the top, being that you really dont know her very well. As for her crying in meetings???She doesn't sound like a good woman to me. Using that manipulative tool to get you to leave your family was appalling.


I have no idea why you married a lady who you didn't love or even like it seems, but you did. You also chose to have children with her, despite apparently always wanting to leave her and the children, which was very irresponsible. I am not sure what sort of effect you trying to leave 16 times has had on your wife or children, but I am betting it has made them feel extremely insecure and anxious. You have a responsibility to be there for your children, and to make then feel secure and wanted.

Pease stop dwelling on this woman with whom you fantasised about a new life, and focus back on your family. Carry on with the counselling and encourage the efforts she is making with you. You choose to marry her and take her on, and I am not sure why you think you can then abandon her just because she isn't perfect. Marry a high maintenance lady, and you will stay married to a high maintenance lady.
Do nice things together. Find joint interests and have date nights. Have fun. A large part of being married is being best friends. The more you think of the OW or any other woman, the more discontent you will feel. Discontentment is deadly for a marriage. Be thankful for what you do have instead of dwelling on what you think you dont have.

Sorry I cant be more sympathetic, but I have seen far too many marriages in my family destroyed because of wandering eyes and the inability to stay faithful emotionally or physically. At least you didn't go that far, but the fact that she asked you to leave your family shows that boundaries were well and truly crossed and that you must have spoken of this with her.

Maybe others will have more sympathy, but to me, leaving your family for another person is a terrible thing to do and is never right. I would have nothing to do with a person who thinks nothing of stealing another woman's husband, or taking a father away from his children.:(

Raymond 22nd September 2013 10:29 AM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
We can't control our feelings but can control our actions. We can choose to feed the wrong feelings though and I think this is what you are in danger of doing. You have done well to marry her our of compassion. Joyce Meyers husband did that. He asked God for a woman he could help. God gave him a woman who had been sexually abused continually by her father. Sure they had hard times but as they looked to God she blossomed. That woman now preaches worldwide.

Whilst I sympathise with your situation I can never counsel you to leave her if she has been faithful to you. There is no justification on earth to do that. I think there is some truth in what Chosen says in that you could be in love with love. Sometimes it is just a lust which breaks up marriages and families. This is often fed by what we are looking at and reading about. I think you have run a good race but you need to have the courage to finish well also. Your wife will be capable of growth. You say yourself she is learning to look after you and the children. Who knows what else she could learn with the right encouragement and commitment from you.

chosen 22nd September 2013 10:53 AM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
I would say that the best is yet to come. Finally she is changing and learning and showing love, and that is brilliant. Encourage that and act out that love no matter how you feel.

Many who have affairs do so because of the excitement, the hidden secret attraction(usually physical) and the lust. This isn't real life. Its not what real relationships are all about. Even if you had left your wife for the OW, do you honestly think that would have lasted? Of course not. The excitement would have died down, the lust would have settled and your life with her would have got normal and ordinary just as much of our lives is. The guilt would have troubled you,and your relationships with your children would probably have been badly affected as they felt terribly rejected by you. You would have found out each other bad habits and faults and weaknesses. Any relationship that begins with one or both leaving their spouses rarely last for obvious reasons. Fantasises are not real, they are what we make them.

I would never advise anyone to marry out of pity or because they feel sorry for them. You cant marry someone and hope they will change because you have to accept people as they are where they are. My MIL married my FIL because she felt sorry for him, and the marriage was never happy and they more or less lived separate lives till eventually they divorced.

I agree with you about Joyce Meyers husband Raymond. He was a very strong Christian and he did go through hell with her for many years. All credit to him for sticking with her and now they have been very happily married for about 45 years.


Sunny I am not entirely without sympathy, but we do need to stich with out promises to our spouse unless there is cheating or similar. OK you probably shouldn't have married her, but you did, you now have lovely children together, and you need to make the best of it as you can, instead of still longing for this unreal relationship with a women who, to be honest, you know little about. She only showed you what she wanted you to see. The feelings you had were probably merely physical attraction and for her to try and make you leave your wife was so wrong no matter what she felt.

chosen 22nd September 2013 01:52 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
It may be a very good idea for you to look for another job away from the OW as well.

chosen 22nd September 2013 09:16 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
I think there is a lot of hope for you both sunny. I admire you for not allowing the relationship with the OW to progress into anything physical. So many today would have just let that happen, regardless of children, so you clearly have good morals and are a caring father.

Your wife clearly feels much better emotionally and is making a real effort in the marriage. Having a wife who really loves you unconditionally and passionately is a thing that many people never have, so that alone is a blessing even if at this time you don't feel the same. You did have many difficult years so give it time.

I am glad that talking about it has helped. It can be very therapeutic to do that, and also to know that some else cares.

Raymond 23rd September 2013 12:05 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
That's great news Sunny. If you have resisted this you will be able to resist most things that try to destroy your marriage and family. With Chosen I do believe the best is to come. I do think you need friendship as well but a friendship that doesn't weaken your marriage but helps build you up as a person.

chosen 24th September 2013 09:52 AM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Sunny its a pleasure, and we are always here if you need to ask more questions or just want to off load. We are not marriage experts by any means(!) but can hopefully help just by listening and giving advise based on our own experiences and what we have seen and learnt in our lives.
I wish you every blessing in your marriage and would love to hear how things progress.

Raymond 24th September 2013 12:47 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
All credit to you Sunny. You have really thought about your actions and sought counselling and in my mind have come up with the right and only moral decision. Faithfulness counts for an awful lot in this cheating world. Well done.

chosen 2nd October 2013 05:39 AM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Dont feel bad for not being the same as Joyce Meyers husband. He was one man and you are a different man. We are all different.
I am wondering if you have depression that may benefit from seeing the doctor? If you are depressed it stops you from feeling emotions to any large degree.

Also give it time. This turnaround is very recent. You know a large part of a good long marriage is companionship. If your spouse can be your best friend and companion though life that's a blessing.
What you had (or though you had) with the OW, wasn't real life. The attraction that you felt was intense because it was new and exciting and forbidden. That too would have died down, and once it did, the day to day living/working/sleeping etc would have been far more routine. You remember it with such powerful feelings, because it never got past that initial attraction phase and into real every day life, so you can make it what you want it to be in you mind.

I can understand that your current situation is hard for both of you. For her to feel that she has to be perfect or she may loose you must be a strain, and we all want to be accepted as we are, but do persevere and don't allow yourself to think about the OW.

I don't know where you are spiritually, but Raymond and I are Christians, and talking to God(our amazing Father) is a real help, and He cares about every aspect of our lives. If you want to, just talk to Him as if he was in the room with you, nothing 'religious', and pour out all this stuff and ask for His help. Be honest and open.

Roses 2nd October 2013 09:18 AM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chosen (Post 76622)
What you had (or though you had) with the OW, wasn't real life. The attraction that you felt was intense because it was new and exciting and forbidden. That too would have died down, and once it did, the day to day living/working/sleeping etc would have been far more routine. You remember it with such powerful feelings, because it never got past that initial attraction phase and into real every day life, so you can make it what you want it to be in you mind.

Chosen, I totally feel the same.

Married men longing for something he's not getting from his marriage, constantly regretting he had married her by MISTAKE - it seems this is one of the most common themes over this site...

There are two types of married men: Men who try to find happiness within marriage and he loves his wife (emotional attachment) despite personal issues and problems life throws at them.

Another type of men who constantly unhappy with his wife and he longs for all consuming romantic love (perhaps) with someone else (someone new) he feels able to open up. He is detached from his wife emotionally but carries on having "obligation sex" to keep her happy.

Sunny, have you considered a trial separation? That would be one way of finding out if you really do not love your wife anymore? I wonder what age range you are? Does getting older worry you?

If you never loved your wife from the start but married her out of obligation or by mistake, then that's probably the likely reason of your current dissatisfaction. There was no love to begin with then, as years go on, it gets harder and harder.

Having said that even if you met someone else you "truly" adore, the initial intense feeling of love DOES NOT LAST FOREVER. Any relationship/marriage demands work..and then you would be back to the same/similar situation.

sarat 2nd October 2013 01:15 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
You have to do what you think is the right thing, take every day one at a time. :)

Raymond 2nd October 2013 08:59 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
I think maybe you are chasing the feeling of love which as Roses said is pretty fleeting Sunny. Do you watch a lot of romantic films by any chance?

I used to be in love as a fourteen year old. The girl was much younger so I couldn't really bring it to anything but I always thought about her. I met her many years later and got the impression she just slept around. My fantasies about her had to die a death.

The only other time was in a church I was in where if this girl walked past me my heart would pound. The feeling was not mutual as it turned out.

Later on there was a girl who fell in love with me and couldn't eat her food properly. Apparently this went on for two years and she had to have counseling from the pastor and his wife. In the end they said he has to know so I got it from the pastor that she was in love with me. Although there was a chemical attraction (one can get that with many people as a single) I was not in love with her in the sense of a pounding heart. Yes she was attractive but I didn't really have that oomph which one kind of expects. Whilst looking around still I did pray about it. Eventually I just had a peace about it after dating her for a while so we got married. What helped me is the scripture husbands love your wives as your own body. We have grown closer and closer over the years and I now believe that she is God's gift to me. I would never have picked her with a passion but I am so grateful that I am married to her. Our love for each other is real and enduring. Apparently the honeymoon period only lasts two years at the most anyway. I can honestly say that I am very happily married.

What bothers me a bit about your story Sunny is that your wife is still not secure in your love even though you say you have been loving her. You say she feels she must be perfect for fear of losing you. I find that very sad that she has never found the security and rest in your love but that she has to strive to keep it. Perfect love casts out all fear. Something she has never known unless she gets it from God. Real love is not just based on a feeling. You cannot say that you have shown her perfect love if she is still insecure in it. Real love would want to give her the assurance that she is loved. I think if you went for that it would come back to you in bucket loads.

chosen 2nd October 2013 11:09 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
What does the therapist say to all of this?

I actually think that a separation may be disastrous at this time.

I suppose that acceptance of the situation is what is needed. We all have things in our lives that we are disappointed about and would rather we had done differently,(I certainly do), but to keep looking back to the past and what may have been is pointless and doesn't help at all. An appreciation of what we DO have, and a real contentment in our lives makes all the difference.

You have no idea whether things would have worked with the OW. Most relationships that begin with one or both leaving their spouse dont last. No one is completely open and honest at work, and no one shows all of their weakness and failings and bad habits except to their very close family.

I cant imagine what it must be like for your wife to never be sure if you are going to walk out on her again or not. It must be horrible. However she is willing to try and she is now showing that she can change.

I suppose because I know this life isn't all there is, I can see the future as positive and glorious, and not think this is it. The best is yet to come. The only real and true and ever lasting love is from God our Father, and ultimately its only that Love from Him that satisfies us completely. All human love is flawed, and we can all be pretty selfish at times cant we. People will always disappoint us to some extent, and no one person will ever be able to meet all of our needs, and it wouldnt be fair to expect them to.

Sorry I don't mean to preach. I just felt it was right to say a bit about all this. I dont usually 'spout off' so bear with me.:)

Roses 3rd October 2013 11:18 AM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Raymond You really are incredibly so amazing. Your grace shines through your words of compassion and so much love..... You have so much to offer and your post made me cry for sheer gentleness.

Sunny my thoughts are with you.

I'm sure many people are "trapped" in unhappy marriage.

Have you had any legal advice more recently? You shouldn't allow yourself to be exposed to her abuse / threat. That is a form of violence / aggression even though she probably does this out of defence or underlying frustration.

As far as I can see, what may complicate the issue is that you still have sex with your wife (expression of sexual unity/love) then she thinks you still "love" her. This is no criticism from me. I also think this is sending a very confused message that you are still committed to her when you don't love her at all.

But as a woman, I am often amazed how men can just do it even if you have little feelings for the person. But I digress....

Chosen. Wise words indeed.

chosen 3rd October 2013 07:10 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
In your case sunny, I dont see the point of a trial separation. What are you trying out? You have already said that you feel you would be happier without her, so for you I think a separation would be the end. I cant only see the point of a trial separation if you are both wanting to have counselling and work on getting back together, but feel that a time apart may help in this process(as has happened with Barry on this forum)

Most people say they want a separation when in fact they want a divorce, but don't want to actually tell the other person that, so they try and cushion the news by diluting it.

I agree with you, in that your wife is so worried and afraid that you will leave, that she uses the children as a threat out of her fear. I can understand that totally. I would be devastated if my husband wanted to leave. You can do and say desperate things when you feel desperate and vulnerable yourself. Like a cornered animal.

In the Bible the reasons given for ending a marriage are either 'pornea' (a greek word that means sexual immorality) or abandonment. I would also say that serious abuse of any
sort is reason to separate, if one spouse or the children are at risk of serious harm.
Sexual immorality doesn't just mean adultery, but can also mean other types of sexual sin such as serious porn use(in my opinion) or doing other sexual things with another person. I tend to stick to what God says because I trust Him.
No where is the fact that you feel you don't love that person, or you are not very happy with them, given as a valid reason to end a marriage, but of course many do end it for those reasons.

I agree about the sex thing. I have no idea how women can have sex with a man they barely know. I would have to love the man for it to mean anything. Sadly that's the standard of the world today, that sex on the first or second date is normal.

Raymond 3rd October 2013 09:02 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
She feels the need to constantly be better to hold on to me, which is a terrible burden to live under. For her or you Sunny? I don't think she has ever known security. Certainly not in her marriage. You sound as if you have been pulling away all the way through it. It sounds like your attempts to mend it didn't work so I kind of suspect that real commitment from you was not there. She wouldn't need to fight if there was. I think it would be terribly sad if you just left her after all these years. Until you decide to commit to her for better or worse I don't see a solution. If you are always looking over your shoulder it won't work. Whatever happened regarding the initial marrying is all water under the bridge. I think you need to forget the past and press on into to the future with her. Wives tend to blossom when they are really loved. I think this romance thing is a red herring that you give too much credence to. How much happiness have you lost through that? Certainly the real stability of your marriage.

Anyway that's how I feel. I can never counsel you to desert her in spite of what you say. It is more than just staying with her. I think you need to actively create an emotional security through your love for her. I think that when she knows she is loved for herself without having to earn it you will see massive changes. I believe you can do that if you set your heart on it. You don't need to look inside yourself for the right feeling. If you actively aim to truly love her the feelings will automatically follow. Love is an act not a feeling ultimately.

Roses 4th October 2013 10:26 AM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Hi

If I am allowed to be bluntly honest, I am increasingly so amazed how hard it is for wives to please their men/husband. Their wives are never deserving enough, never attractive enough, never the object of their desire etc.

It seems husbands have a very fixed idea as to how their wives should look like, behave etc to deserve their love. Knowing how many husbands share this strong sentiment together, it's probably a "men thing". No wonder "prostitution" is all time popular from time immemorial for dissatisfied husbands who feel stuck and so disappointed by their wives in their marriage....(this comment isn't directed at anyone in particular..! x) Even with these ladies, once they go home, I bet they look like "ordinary" women.

In movies, attractive movie stars wake up from sleep fully made up and it isn't quite like that in a real life! (?) I'm sure movie stars will look totally different off screen to be honest.

I don't believe a trial separation will automatically mean any divorce. Since you commented how badly your wife is speaking of you in front of your children, the atmosphere at home is already quite toxic to you?

As I said before and you said very thoughtfully that your therapist commented also, that you will not be able to move on (either progress on marriage or otherwise) by continuing to keep having sex with your wife whom you are SO DEEPLY UNHAPPY WITH. I think this will lead to a much bigger problem/hurt in a long run to my mind...

Having this sort of sex is probably extremely hurtful to most women who might think their husbands still love them without realizing that his mind is very much detached from her. You say you are able to tolerate your marriage better this way but it strikes me this is utterly unacceptable. (not said in a critical way x)

ronnoco 4th October 2013 11:13 AM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Sunny,

In my opinion, you are clearly not happy with your life and the problem is your wife. You have never had the right feelings for her and after 22 years, you never will. It's never going to change. It's gone on way too long and the more it festers, the worse it will get. There is no magic cure that will make you have the right feelings and it's wrong that you don't have the right feelings for your wife.

Being married to someone who is sticking their finger up at you, back chatting you and someone who you simply tolerate says it all - this is not a marriage.

It doesn't really matter whether you will meet someone else who blows your mind in the way your may dream of something like this happening. I think what's important is having the opportunity to try and find that special person and try and find happiness. Life is precious, and short, everyone deserves to be happy. You have worked at it, you really have but clearly, your wife is not the right person for you.

There will never be a good time to break up when you have kids but the kids will see what is happening with you and your wife and what sort of example are you guys setting them? You will become more resentful, more bitter, etc

I'm sure something regarding custody could be sorted with the children. There is a solution to every problem, you just need to find it.

All the very best.

chosen 4th October 2013 12:00 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
ronocco so you dont think that we are to keep the promises that we make to our spouse? You don't think that we need to put our responsibilities for spouse and children before ourselves? Remember we did promise for better or for worse. He did choose to marry her.

My husband wasn't very happy with his first wife. She was manipulative and controlling. However he had promised to be faithful and stay with her for life, and they had 2 children, so there is no way he would ever have ended the marriage. She eventually did meet another man and ended it herself after 23 years, so he had no choice. Her affair didn't last(as so few do)and she is still alone many years later.

Whatever you say, children are devastated by their parents breaking up.

I feel sad that after all this time his wife is trying so hard and wanting so much for this marriage to work, that he may now leave.

Raymond 4th October 2013 01:41 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Well spoken Chosen. Marriage is not just something to be tossed aside just like that. It is far deeper and profound and a divorce will affect her and even you Sunny deeper than you know, not to mention the children.

At the bottom of all this is the capacity to love. Love wants the best for the other person. Nobody forced you to marry. You chose to. As Chosen said vows were made before God. I don't want to make this sound like "you made your bed now lie in it.". Far from it. I honestly believe there is a key to be found here. I believe that key lies in you not her. With all her faults she is committed to the marriage and to you. Yes she is far from perfect. Aren't we all? Real love actually sees past that as Roses was touching on. Don't we all need to be loved for who we are and not for what we do or what we can earn and not just for the outer appearance as pleasant as that is? That is what we signed up for in sickness and in health for better or worse. I know it is a massive challenge but millions have done it and succeeded.

You admit you have never loved her as she needed Sunny. You admit you are failing. That is to your credit that you are humble enough to see that. You say that she is attractive and that you are sexually compatible so it is not all bad. What is lacking is real love and acceptance which she so desperately needs. That is what you are looking for too it seems. What would you have to offer long term after deserting your wife and family?

It is obvious what the right thing to do is. So what is the problem? A problem we all have. Selfishness. We think we can get there by grasping whereas the opposite is true. We find ourselves when we are able to give. Most wives respond amazingly to real love so you have the keys. Being able to love is still the key here. If you can get there you will not have this problem. I think the alternative is giving in to your abiding deception that is robbing you of what you could and should be having.

ronnoco 4th October 2013 02:25 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
I can only be honest, and in my honest opinion, if I were married and my wife felt for me the way that Sunny feels for his wife, if after trying really hard to make it work with no success, I wouldn't want her to be with me, even despite having children. Surely deep down she must want someone who truly loves her and Sunny doesn't.

I would want to be with someone who loves me fully, a partner, soul mate, best friend, lover, like we are one - for me, this is what marriage is about.

I fully appreciate that this is a Christian based forum and that unless there is some form of adultery or abuse you will always advise to keep the marriage together, but for me, a lifetime of misery, regret and so much more is not a healthy happy life for anyone (children included)
Raymond and Chosen - you guys offer incredible advice, I've said that many times, but not everyone is religious, not everyone believes in God the way you do and therefore their conceptions of marriage are different to yours. I loved my wife with all my heart and wanted to be with her forever. If she lost both her legs, I would still want her because I had that connection, that desire, that love for her - Sunny doesn't have this.

Look at how happy Chosen's husband he is now compared to how he was with his wife of 23 years...Chosen's husband probably felt how Sunny feels now. Why can't Sunny have what Chosen's husband has found?. I don't think he should have to wait for his wife to end it to start searching for this if he has exhausted all possibilities and after 22 years of not being happy, I think he has. I think after 22 years, it's too late to find the key.

I'm not suggesting for 1 second that what I say is correct, it is simply my honest opinion.

chosen 4th October 2013 03:06 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Ronnocco, the thing is that she does love him a lot, and is trying very hard to make the marriage work.

Raymond 4th October 2013 06:31 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
There is room for different opinions on here but truth is truth regardless of religion wherever one finds a truth on here. Sunny will have to make his own decisions. Each can only speak what they believe. It is only a forum.

toellandback 4th October 2013 07:11 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
I have found this forum to be very helpful. It really didn't occur to me that religious beliefs played a major role in the advice I was getting. And even if it had I would still have assessed it in exactly the same way. Does my belief in the vows of marriage make me a religious man ? Not necessarily. My vows were a promise to my wife, a belief in me that I could deliver that promise. I still believe, I still honour those vows. Religious forum ?? Maybe. But I do admire those who live their lives with certain values , not that I could ever do that. I'm to inconsistant and afraid. Does faith in something or someone take those things away ??
I hope you find love sunny , I also hope its love inside your marriage.

chosen 4th October 2013 07:39 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by toellandback (Post 76676)
I have found this forum to be very helpful. It really didn't occur to me that religious beliefs played a major role in the advice I was getting. And even if it had I would still have assessed it in exactly the same way. Does my belief in the vows of marriage make me a religious man ? Not necessarily. My vows were a promise to my wife, a belief in me that I could deliver that promise. I still believe, I still honour those vows. Religious forum ?? Maybe. But I do admire those who live their lives with certain values , not that I could ever do that. I'm to inconsistant and afraid. Does faith in something or someone take those things away ??
I hope you find love sunny , I also hope its love inside your marriage.

Its not always easy living by certain truths, but on the other hand I have a very strong sense of morality and honesty and truth, and I had that before I was a Christian as well. My conscience is very strong, and just wouldnt allow me to do certain things that so many others think nothing of doing.
On the other hand God is so very wise and the only reason He tells us what things to do is for our own good, and time and time again I see people acting badly and it nearly always ends in tears for them and for others. There is always a good reason for what He says, and if we step outside that it never ends well. There is real and lasting freedom in living within certain boundaries, just as children thrive when they know their boundaries and the consequences of going out side them. God never makes us do anything, and we all have free will, but if we cross certain lines, there are always consequences. His teachings are good for all of us whether we follow Him or not, and most of the laws of our countries are based on His values and standards.

chosen 4th October 2013 07:48 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sunny (Post 76677)
I can't express how grateful I am for your time, all of you, guiding me through this. I need this so badly.

Ronnoco, I must say I share your views more than anyone else. I don't think this is healthy for me or her or the kids. That being said, leaving her would be the single most selfish act I've ever committed. It would break her heart, her parents, my kids, my parents, our friends.... It's a terrifying leap, and a big part of not jumping is the knowledge that there'll be profound sadness for everyone for a long time. As I've said, from the outside everyone loves us, loves us together. Only she and I, and you all, really understand what's happening on the inside. I admit I'm a bit of a coward, and as my therapist said, very passive, and also extremely repressed, as I carry all this baggage around with me. She never had to until just recently... ignorance is bliss.

Roses, she pleases me greatly (now). She provides everything and I don't take it for granted. I care about her and always have; her well being, her happiness, another reason I said I only wanted to separate if it was her choice. I wanted to continue to be there for her (though I don't know if she'd let me after a separation), support her in all her endeavors, because she's important to me. Even when she wakes up, she's beautiful. I love the way she smells, the sound of her voice, and I respect her as a human being and the mother of my children.

I know everyone must be saying "If you have all these feelings for her, what's the problem?!?" There are many people I care about greatly and respect and admire, but I don't have feelings for them and wouldn't ask them to marry me, in other words I don't love them. I did ask my wife, but I at the time I did it, it was like a peace offering - ok, you won't set me free, and I don't want to be selfish and desert because you need help, so if I do this for you, will you please treat me with kindness and respect? She said yes, but things got even worse after that. I suppose she finally had me so there was no need to put anything into it.

I tried to leave her 3 times during our engagement alone, once after she took off all her clothes when she was drunk at a party. When I drove her home that night I cried the whole way and she laughed the whole way. The next morning I said it was over, shortly after that she seduced me and again I came back, feeling horrible about myself.

These are hard things to overcome- that's just one of many really damaging things that have gone on over the years. I know the key is forgetting about this and accepting the present but it's so hard, especially after I feel I've given my life over to this person who I never loved, for her benefit, and she threw it away.

So like Raymond says, it's true that the problem is me. She wants me to move on, accept, now that she really is turning into a different person, and she truly is. It's just that messed up thing inside me, the feeling that has never gone away that she's not the one for me. Even now that she is kind, tries to do right by me on all levels, and for the first time listens to me... Just listening and being kind aren't enough to inspire love. They are just the fundamentals of a healthy relationship, which again, I am grateful for.

We had a huge argument the other night, shouting about divorce and legal battles, etc, without much resolution, but we came together again as we always do, holding each other for a long time this morning when the kids were at school, saying nothing. I tied the laces on her running shoes. I don't want to crush her but I know in my heart it's not right. It's so heart wrenching. The cycle goes on...

As Chosen and Raymond say, I did say my vows, for better or worse, so I continue to give this time. Saying them in the eyes of God unfortunately doesn't have any meaning for me, as I believe God is a synonym for the Universe, but saying my vows before her does mean something, even if on that day I didn't feel she was there, present with me, at the altar. She's admitted this and apologized for it.

She reminded me during our fight that she only changed a few months ago, and to please give it time. We've been through so much I want to give it time for our kids, for her, for me, even though my heart is screaming at me that it's best for all to move on. She is trying hard, and it's my sincere hope that somehow this will inspire a change in me too.

Yes the promises were made to her.
I really hope that you give it time, the change is so recent.

I suppose that I feel strongly that we have responsibilities that outweigh whether we feel madly 'in love' or not. No one ever said that we are going to love our spouses all of our lives, and that's where the better or worse comes in. That's where the promise to always be faithful comes in. There is no way that I could ever have left my children just because I didn't feel in love any more. Who said that marriage is all about love anyway? Its far more about friendship and companionship and bringing up children and sharing and supporting.

toellandback 4th October 2013 08:26 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Some very eloquent points sunny.

chosen 4th October 2013 08:55 PM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Trouble is sunny there are so many different types of love, and the love that you have at one time may change into a different sort of love in another. A romantic love isn't always going to be a romantic love, but may change into more of a close friendship sort of love. Over the lifetime of a marriage love will change and change again. Its may also come and go. Many marriages are arranged, and they start without even knowing the person, let alone loving them, but they are committed to each other even if that means they never have that 'romantic' love.

To me marriage is a commitment and should never depend on feelings, but I do appreciate that today its more about what I want and what I need rather than commitment and responsibility. I am not getting at you when I say that, but its what I see all around me.

chosen 5th October 2013 08:06 AM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sunny (Post 76685)
A romantic love might change as you said, but there was never romantic love here to begin with. That's the difference in my situation. And yes, there are many kinds of love, and I do have many of those for my wife- friend, mother to my children, companion, maybe these can still change, as you said, into romantic love. And I know many marriages endure without having that one special kind of love. Still, even my wife says she doesn't want to be with me if I don't love her in that way - she doesn't want to be married to someone who considers her a friend. I wouldn't want that either.

I understand what you're saying about what marriage means today. Marriage is not the same as it once was. Over half divorce, or so I hear. This idea of being a failure, or one of those on the wrong side of 50% is not a place I want to be.

May I ask, do you love your husband in that one special way? It sounds as though you do. If the two of you share that, I'm coming to realize, you are truly blessed.

Yes I do have that love with my husband of 8 years, but didn't really have it so much with my first husband. However that wasn't the reason for the divorce after 25 years, that was because of things I found out he had done that were terrible. Had he not done the things he did, I would still be married to him now. My husband didn't have that sort of love with his first wife either, but as I said before, his promises meant that he would never have left her.

You say that she doesn't want to stay with a man who only loves her as a friend, but she has stayed with you all these years knowing that.

Raymond 5th October 2013 10:58 AM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sunny (Post 76681)
I have to disagree with that one idea... I believe marriage should be about love, not necessarily mad love, because we all know that fades, but love nevertheless. Love is the glue that binds a marriage, allows for acceptance, not responsibility. I think responsibility emerges from love, having that person's life in your hands. Without love marriage is a lonely place for both people. These are all "shoulds" though, they aren't necessarily reality, as I know too well.

Of course marriage is about love and I believe you do have a measure of that in your marriage from what you have described. Of course marital love will have the extra dimension of the physical which sets it apart from other relationships. It sounds like you did have a hard time in the past. I hope you have been able to forgive and move on as she seems to have.

I assume she has always been physically faithful only to you?

My wife chips in and says the love in marriage can develop much deeper than romantic feelings which will evaporate in time. That doesn't mean that we should not conserve the romance within our marriages. I often bring my wife flowers not because I am romantic but because I see what it does for her.

I think your main problem is this thought that she is not the right one. People can still marry the so called right one and still make a total mess of it. It is an illusion that when we find the 'right one' that everything damaged within us will be healed. Our marriages are what we both bring to it whether it be good things or bad things, and we all can bring a load of junk into our marriages that needs sorting out. As long as you are both trying to sow good things the marriage will succeed and be the blessing and comfort to you both that it was meant to be.

chosen 5th October 2013 11:39 AM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
I have to agree with Raymond.

To make this marriage work, I do think you need to let go of this terrible discontentment, this idea that she isnt the 'right' one(which in your mind was confirmed by the OW who you mistakenly thought in your mind WAS the right one,)the thoughts of divorcing her(don't even let that word stay in your thoughts for a second),in fact of anything but knowing and believing this that is the women you marred, and for life. She is now your 'right one' because you married her.

Once you have stopped looking for 'outs' and start appreciating what you DO have(which is far more than many do), then things will change more quickly.
To me, staying with an attitude of 'oh well I will give it a year or two and then decide' isn't going to work. Once you decide that no matter what, you are with her and the children for good, and you let go of the past, it will make a vast difference.

What we allow ourselves to think and what we say are vitally important. So each time something negative comes into your mind, replace it with something positive.
Thankfulness is very helpful ands important. List all the things you have, and list all the many good qualities about your wife. Discontentment is so destructive.

I saw the state of my husband after being with a wife for 23 years who was discontent. He was like a shell. Since we have been together he has blossomed. Dont allow that negative emotion to take hold, and please dont ever let thoughts or fantasies about the OW stay in your mind.

Roses 6th October 2013 09:50 AM

Re: I don't love my wife and never have...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 76672)
There is room for different opinions on here but truth is truth regardless of religion wherever one finds a truth on here. Sunny will have to make his own decisions. Each can only speak what they believe. It is only a forum.

I think this is so important, Raymond. These Men are allowed to express how they're feeling in a non-judgemental and safe atmosphere.

We cannot force these people not to feel the way they are; their fundamental feelings are valid and we don't get to read men's feelings too much in society. We mainly read what they DO but not enough how they are thinking and feeling.


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