Site Areas
Wedding Centre
Health Club
Marriage Clinic
Chapel
University
Citizen's Centre
Coffee Shop
Admin Centre

Contents
Articles
Books
CDs / Videos
Tips
Services

Resources
Forums
Membership
Contact Us
Site map
Link to Us

Search

Take the Couple Check-up!

Marriage Week UK

Marriage first aid

Online support for your marriage

Free Tell A Friend from Bravenet


Home > Forums
2-in-2-1 Discussion Forums  

Go Back   2-in-2-1 Discussion Forums > Advice > Marriage Help

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 17th July 2008, 08:03 PM   #16
Raymond
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,409
Re: Constantly upset

Beadles you know more about true Christianity than I realised. You understand the difference between grace and works. Your husband obviously does not. This is not unusual. Most people don't. The real tradgedy is that you thought he was a christian. To believe the gospel is a revelation from God. Don't lose what you have. You are obviously a christian even if a bit backslidden. You need to feed on that new nature that came into your spirit when you were born again. Please find a live fellowship so that you can be built up again. You will need it in this situation.

I wouldn't try and convert him with arguments and words. The scriptural way for a wife to do it is by their lives. He has vulnerable points like when he cried on his knees for you not to leave him. He is fighting unknowingly against Gods ways but God can get through so try and pray also.

If in the end he decides to leave you the scripture says you are not under bondage in such cases, let them leave. As it is I think you have to tough it out and really get hold of your faith. Are your parents christians?

I've tried the philosophy route before I was converted. Funny enough the philosophy teacher became quite angry when I told her of my conversion to Christ. By the way Jesus only told the rich man to sell what he had. He must have known that the rich man's heart was too wrapped up in it. I'm sure God would have prospered him again if he trusted Jesus' words.

There must be something in your husband that reacts against the truth of Christ. Why else would he get so angry when you described a live meeting you were at? In some ways this might be encouraging. At least there is a reaction, a sign that a battle is going on.

Have you ever heard of Derek Prince's teachings. He was an Oxford doctor of philosophy and also a logician who got converted. Some say that he was the best bible teacher of the century.

It's great that you can go to your parents and get support and rest. There is a battle ahead and you will need all the support you can get. I still think the key is through pressing into christ and getting full of the spirit. Didn't Jesus say He (the spirit) will lead you into all truth?

Raymond
Raymond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th July 2008, 09:01 PM   #17
Polly2
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Constantly upset

Thanks Raymond.

‘If in the end he decides to leave you, the scripture says you are not under bondage in such cases, let them leave. As it is I think you have to tough it out and really get hold of your faith’.

He has often threatened to leave and then goes back to being normal this is extremely hurtful and happens fairly regularly about once a month but I don’t think he will. Last time he said such hurtful things I wanted him to leave as it would release me from the agony that is my marriage. I, like you, used to interpret the Bible as pretty literal but over time I have changed my opinion slightly. In that, I believe it is to be interpreted with revelation also. You say that if he were to leave me I would not be under ‘bondage’ (I believe by that you are referring to the passage below from 1 Corinthians:

But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.For what knowest thou, 0 wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, 0 man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk.

I used to believe divorce/ separation was wrong but now I think differently. You see, the night that my husband said I wasn’t worth loving, that I was an embarrassment, pathetic and a disgrace I wanted to end my life. God stepped in to tell me he cared about me and loved me. People (primarily my parents, who are Christians) have told me that they had their doubts about my husband, that they don’t like the way he treats me and that is when he is on his best behaviour!

I believe that God wishes the flourishing of every human being by his love and grace. I have tried so hard with my husband, I have prayed for him everyday and have not told any one about our problems because I wanted to pretend we had a good marriage and was fearful of the disgrace that it would cause. I realise that you only get one chance at life and I’m afraid to say there are bigger issues than trying to live and love someone who tells you hurtful things, regularly makes you cry weekly, threatens to leave you monthly, screams at you for going to church and squashes any talent or faith from all sides – I would say that is not flourishing as God wants.

My faith and guidance comes form the word of God and there is no better example of how one should live than to look to Christ. Christ shows compassion to those who need it most he goes to the out castes of society, to the untouchables he chooses to associate himself with those that the leading religious authorities deemed ‘ unclean’ and therefore despicable in the eyes of God. We as Christians I feel must be careful not to adopt the approach of the Pharisees that Christ so openly shamed time and time again when he challenged their legalistic approach to the law.
After the Pharisees criticized Jesus for allowing his disciples to pick some grain on the Sabbath day, Jesus said, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27)
Here Jesus is condemning the overly legalistic use of scripture to make the Sabbath a day of hard duty as opposed to a rest, but nonetheless it is but one example of the why Jesus viewed what the laws had become. Perhaps the story I find most comfort in at this time is that of Jesus and the adulterous women (not that adultery is an issues- at least I hope not!)
But because it shows Jesus going against the Judaic laws of the time by setting the women free he is actually breaking the law, but he did it to do the most loving thing. Here he also points out that no one is without sin. This shows that their sin is no greater than that of hers. (James 2:10
10- For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it
). Jesus makes no distinction here.



John 8
But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.
So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?” She said, “No one, Lord.”
And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”


I especially find this example of Christ’s compassion comforting because I have had to live with abuse for 2 ½ years and I only came out of this when last Sunday I went to my old hometown church whilst visiting my brother and danced to the worship music like I’ve never danced before! It was fantastic because I know God and I know he loves me and cares for me and opened my mouth so I could talk to my parents or I would have just carried on pretending it was ok for my husband to swear at me in general conversation and generally make my life at times unbearable. I have done everything in my power to be salt and light to my husband but nothing has worked and I can’t do this anymore I can’t live with this abuse and I’m sure there are other women out there who are exactly the same. I know and love scripture but I know right now that as I pray I am gaining courage and strength and God is helping me and opening doors I am following God on this one and I know today moving my stuff was painful but I have to protect myself at the moment. Because, my husband has power over me that only God should have. I once found a quote in a trashy magazine by Sienna Miller which said ‘I don’t have regrets and I hope to God I never have regrets in my life. Everything I’ve experienced has been for a reason’.

I know of a few Christians who have had to separate or divorce because of terrible issues and they are now back on their feet and doing wonderful things for God. I have made myself feel guilty for 2 ½ years I want to do what is right in the eyes of God but believe he also wants me to be happy and flourish.

On a theological matter I am interested to know what you mean by ‘true Christianity’? You see I used to think that there was a ‘ True Christianity’ and this was in the form of western evangelical Christianity but then I moved away to Uni and got married and my evangelical friends didn’t really care that much they deserted me, perhaps because of my husband or perhaps because I was out of sight out of mind. I worked in a Catholic school for 2 years and I was told when I was young that Catholics weren’t ‘true Christians’. However, during my tough times the Catholic friends I made in that school supported me with the true love and compassion of Christ in a way my evangelical friends had not and it changed my view. In all denominations you will get people who seem more Christian qualities than others but at the end of the day God judges the heart and knows us and that’s what counts. Apologies again for the length – I like a debate!



  Reply With Quote
Old 18th July 2008, 10:51 PM   #18
Polly2
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Red face Re: Constantly upset

Sorry I'm a bit of a scripture geek! But saying that I think I need to focus on restoring myself at the moment and not get bogged down in doctrine. Just see where God leads, pray and give myself some time to heal.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2008, 11:17 AM   #19
Raymond
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,409
Re: Constantly upset

Wow Beadle. What a sermon. It is fantastic that you have been able to get away to your old church and have even danced as before. The scripture is obviously against legalism. The word is food to us rather than a set of rules. We fulfil the law if we walk in the spirit but we are not under it if we do that. I really hope and pray you find your way through this. You believe God will help you and He will. As you intimated christians are those who have received christ as opposed to the label they wear, but receiving christ is only the beginning. We have to discover what we have and what has been done for us and grow in it. That takes a lifetime.

I find that it is the Spirit which makes the big difference. It is the word and the Spirit. This place almost sounds like a church now.

God bless you. It is marvellous to see the beginning of rays of light.

Raymond
Raymond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2008, 02:46 PM   #20
Polly2
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Constantly upset

Thanks for the encouragement. I am so glad of your comments and that of others because these forums allow me to be completely honest and open and it gives me the chance to bounce things off a complete stranger. There is also something very therapeutic about writing down my feelings and gives me the chance to see the progress I’m making. So thank you Raymond, you are a wise man!

My Mum pointed out today’s reading in UCB’s ‘Word for Today’ it might encourage others so I’ll put it in:

The power of passion 'His word is in my heart like a fire.' Jeremiah 20:9
If you've ever built a fire you know that its tendency is to go out. You must feed and protect it. Not everyone will help you do that. There are two kinds of people you'll meet in life: fire lighters and fire extinguishers. The first group will inspire you, encourage you and go out of their way to help you. The second group will throw cold water on you. How can you tell the difference? Fire extinguishers use phrases like: 'It's not in the budget...that's not practical...we've tried that before and it didn't work...if it ain't broke don't fix it...who will do all the extra work?...we don't have enough experience, talent, education, etc.,...who do you think you are?' If you've heard one or more of these excuses coming from the people around you, pray for them, love them, but don't let them influence you. Fire extinguishers focus on what's wrong rather than on what's right. They find the cloud that comes with every silver lining. They doubt. They resist change. They keep you from reaching higher by trying to put out the fire of your passion. Sometimes they do this deliberately, other times unknowingly. Handle them with care! Instead, spend more time with fire lighters who view you not as you are, but as you could be; who fuel your faith and ignite your passion. It's estimated that there are about 200 million Christians in the Chinese church today. One of the fire lighters who helped start it was Hudson Taylor. And he's the man who said, 'The sun has not once risen in China in 40 years, without finding me on my knees in prayer.' That's passion!

I feel that this is very true and in many ways I have allowed my faith to, not be put out completely, but enough to be like the last burning ember before it fades completely. But I too am guilty of being a fire extinguisher I fear.

Tomorrow will start the testing time when My husband comes home to the house and me not there. I have been told by my Christian friends and family that I have to be strong because I immediately begin to feel weak as I hate to think I am intentionally hurting someone even if they have hurt me. My Dad says he wants to see how he treats this week, whether he calls or not. I was going to talk to him on the phone when he got back but I’ve realised that actually that will do no good as he has a kind of magic hold over me where I end up agreeing to unreasonable requests and I loose my confidence to express how I really feel. So I have sent him a letter instead explaining what I’ve been feeling and what actions I am taking.

I watched the lord of the rings – Two Towers a while back and could relate to two scenes particularly the first being that of where Grima Wormtongue has control of King Theoden and Gandalf sets him free and also where Gollum is battling with the shadow of himself telling the dark evil shadow of himself to ‘go away’ I can’t work out what it is exactly and I don’t think it is all down to my husband but when he says horrible things and then the next day says he’s so sorry I forgive him but I store what he has said and it comes back to torment me like Gollum’s shadow . I feel like I have been released from oppression by being away everything in my life seems ‘alive’ and I’m scared to go back into the oppression.

My Dad told me today that if my husband and I had had children he knew my husband wouldn’t be able to cope and he was worried about that aspect of our marriage my Dad said that that is the point where he thought I might leave/do something only when the comments and abuse where no longer targeted at me but I might have had the courage to do it if they were to another loved one.

I am terrified I’m going to forget, if I see him I’ll think of the good times ( remember that was about 50% of the time) But this time I can’t let myself forget because it has to be addressed one why or the other. You see I still feel the need to protect him?! Protect him from the judgement of others, that’s why I didn’t speak out for so long. My older brother (also a Christian and married) called last night and we talked for a couple of hours and he says I should not go back without taking someone with me at all times. I know it sounds extreme but I think I might have to do that because I keep wanting to convince myself it is not that bad and forgetting that underneath it all as you said in an earlier post the basic foundations of marriage are not there. At the moment he can’t even answer if he loves me or not! It sad but I have to do this I don’t want to be sad anymore I just need God to give me the courage I need.
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2008, 11:30 AM   #21
Raymond
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,409
Re: Constantly upset

What a beautiful post Beadles. I am glad you have shared everything with your parents and brother. You have a lovely christian family who will be a support to you. You are not being non protective. There are things you needed to share for your own survival. Now that it's out you will be getting the support you need.

Thank you for your passages from Jeremiah and Lord of the Rings. There are things that can imperceptively smother us without us realising it because it was gradual. You have seen this now and have given ample proof on here that you know what is going on.

I think you will be going back with something extra within you which you will need to come aside and feed occasionally. You will be his example of what love is if he never knew it. Love overcomes all. You are not alone in this. You will get plenty of booty from this battle and grow stronger and wiser. Things will go out from you to others that you didn't know was there.

Raymond
Raymond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2008, 11:06 PM   #22
Polly2
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Constantly upset

My husband got my long letter/ email yesterday evening and his response was quite cold and clinical I don’t want to put it all on as it is not my own words and that would be wrong. But I will select two passages:

I agree with what you said; in the week in term time my solitude is not simply important to me, it is essential. For solitude is what causes my resentment of your attention and lack of willingness to focus on you - even going so far as to not want to be hugged or sit with you on the sofa.

I think the quality you need from a husband, which your email seems to suggest, is one who will be attentive to you and devoted to you all the time. For me, that is too much. I will freely admit I have more priorities than you in my life; notably, my work, but also myself and my own sanity. You are a priority, but I am a priority for me too.


The whole email summed up said ' I'm me, I'm not going to change, don't want to and, I have to be met on my terms or not at all- which basically sums up my marriage!

I am also finding that as time as gone on I am forced to tell more people (of course in varying degrees of detail) what is happening and this is quite difficult especially when my Grandad (also a Christian) basically said I told you so I pointed out that this really wasn’t helpful advice. It actually turns out that most people don’t like him very much- I must have been blind.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2008, 09:51 AM   #23
Raymond
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,409
Re: Constantly upset

If he feels like this, who is the person who related to you in the first place? He is obviously not giving himself to the marriage and seems to prefer his isolation except when it's convenient to him. This makes a mockery of marriage. We all need time alone but this is extreme. Maybe he cannot handle relationship and will have to learn it. It seems to me he isn't trying to be nasty but is genuinely unable to function fully in relationship and his weak point is being hit. He is protecting himself and is afraid to open up, whatever he dresses it up in. He is not fully able to receive love because of the walls he has built up due to the way he was brought up. He does have a problem Polly. I think you have to make the most of the time you do have in the hope that he will learn to fully open up.

Raymond

Last edited by Raymond; 22nd July 2008 at 06:27 PM.
Raymond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2008, 08:54 AM   #24
Polly2
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Constantly upset

Raymond? Anyone?

Please can you help! After a few emails etc this week- this really reflects my husbands warped theology! Any thoughts!

I said: Believing in something is not the same as faith. Faith requires trust and passion- if you truly believed you would WANT to reflect the qualities of Jesus in your life and as far as I can see you keep trying to find loop-holes in the scripture and church in order to live as you please - 'By your fruits you shall know them'.

Then I guess by your definition I am not a Christian and never have been and never will be. This 'passion', or 'first love' that so many Christians (of all denominations and traditions) talk about is not something I have experienced.

Also, do you believe anyone wants to reflect the qualities of Jesus in their life? Seriously? The only people who claim that they really do are either remarkable saints (Bl. Mother Teresa of Calcutta, St. Dominic, St. Peter - and not very many others) or haven't read the gospels. Who actually wants to reflect the qualities of Jesus in their life? Don't you realise what you're saying here? In case there's any doubt, here's ultimately what 'reflecting the qualities of Jesus' will mean:

"
Just as there were many who were appalled at him - his apperance so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form marred beyond human likeness ... He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not."

Much of the Church, from Evangelical to Anglican and all others, is in denial about who Jesus was and what he expected - and yet when I raise this point and speak the truth about it, you and many other Christians, tell me that I have hang-ups and issues. "By their fruits..."

So is it any surprise that I would look for loop-holes? The truth that Jesus expects is altogether too scary.


Unlike at ____Evangelical church ______ where one would be so 'challenged' and 'bothered' all the time that one would live one's life in a permanent shroud of guilt? The only emotion I experienced for 2 years at Evangelical church was guilt, and every church service I had to spend time with people who hardly sinned and preached about how perfect we had to be, and that just confirmed the horrible guilt all the more. I was glad to find a church where I would be neither challenged or bothered. Can you see why?

This is certainly true of St.__________ Traditional Anglican Church. But so what? Imagine if Jesus had said: "you know what, Dad, I don't think I'll undertake my ministry. Three years homeless, living on the edge of society, I'll be called a madman and even my family will try to dissuade me from undertaking this. I'll be mobbed by crowds one minute and spat at the next. At the end, I'll go to the city I love where people I love will nail me on a Roman gibbet. Finally, I will die, alone, naked and baked under the Palestinian sun. My friends will all have deserted me. No, this isn't for me." How dare we, then, complain that something is boring and we don't have friends our age?! We Western Christians are spoilt and lazy. We imagine we are living as Jesus lived when we sing "Servant King" and tythe to a charity.

Christianity is a chore and a duty whichever denomination you're in. If you're ever in any doubt, simply go and read the Sermon on the Mount. "Be perfect, therefore, because your Father in heaven is perfect". Is there any interpretation of this other than to say that it is horribly, awfully demanding? I know of no one alive today who would find it wholly a joy to obey this command.
Maybe you're right. Maybe Evangelical Church has hurt me too, though. Put simply, I really really don't want to be a Christian. But... I believe it all.


What can I say?!!!



  Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2008, 04:06 PM   #25
Raymond
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,409
Re: Constantly upset

Polly your husband is obviously blinded from the truth of who Christ was, God in the flesh. It is true that he suffered at the end, but that was for us to pay the price for our sin (which cannot be underestimated) to take away the barrier between us and God.

All he is seeing is suffering and impossible standards. He is right about the standard. It is impossible in our own strength, but we have Christ within us by the Spirit, the fruit of which is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, goodness, gentleness, self control , faith and kindness. I personally am a thousand times happier since being a christian, even working through problems, so he does paint a very bleak picture which isn't true.

He obviously does not understand the love which God has for us. Incredible love in fact. Don't try and argue scripture with him Polly. He will understand love by your life and others. If God gives you His wisdom to answer him well and good, but don't try in your own strength. He will not receive it from you. It's by your life that he could change not by your preaching because he is your husband.

Raymond
Raymond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2008, 08:34 PM   #26
Polly2
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Constantly upset

I feel really sad and alone. I have now been away from my husband for a month. He seems not to be bothered and doesn't call etc. it is always me initiating the calls and emails. Actually, he seems to be enjoying himself, going to the pub etc.

He has expressed no willingness to change but has told me he recognises his selfish attitude. I feel so deceived; he has turned his back on God, on me and everything that is precious in life. My car needed fixing the other day so I had to contact him and he told me ‘your lack of care for our finances worries me and makes me feel like you don’t care for me or the household we are trying to build together’ So what was I meant to do not get it fixed! My exhaust was hanging off. I don’t see how he can label me a spend thrift for fixing my car and the drains on our house! He only cares about money. I’m gutted with my life I feel so stupid for the decisions I’ve made all my friends made good choices of marriage partners, I didn’t.

My husband doesn’t care about me at all and it makes me feel like what he said was true I am ‘unloveable’
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2008, 09:36 PM   #27
ilakatilol
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 38
Re: Constantly upset

Wow... if my husband were to say that... he'd be as good as getting another woman & then me using that as an excuse to say bye to him!

Why would you even stay with someone like him? I'd say let someone else deal w/ his mess... I'd be *free* from all relief efforts. I'd take a vacation & never come back no more.

Maybe... its just me talking
ilakatilol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2008, 01:06 PM   #28
Raymond
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,409
Re: Constantly upset

Polly you have no choice but to look to the faith you have and the support of your parents and fellowship etc. You know he is like this but are having another down period over it. I don't hink he has deserted God I don't think he ever knew Him, just had a false caricature of Him that he had from somewhere.

You have to be a living testimony of what love is and what a christian is. You are getting no co-operation from him it seems. If he wants to leave you will not be under bondage. Let him leave, but you cannot take this stuff. Not only is it against you on a spiritual level but also on a natural level. ie your love is hardly returned and you are getting mental abuse. I think you are going to need many seperations as it is just to build yourself up to cope with it. You obviously need a key here on how to cope with it. One would not blame you for leaving. You are both pulling in different directions.

Raymond
Raymond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2008, 07:11 PM   #29
dranoel_good
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 6
Re: Constantly upset

Why would he say something like,...

"You need to make yourself worth loving"

There are two sides to every story and I'd like to know why he says things like that.
dranoel_good is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2008, 10:16 PM   #30
Polly2
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Constantly upset

He said the ‘You have to make yourself worth loving' statement after an argument we had in which he said I was pathetic and over sensitive – I stood up for myself after he humiliated me in front of his friends. Obviously that made me cry, as I always end up doing when he’s mean and that’s why he said it because I was crying and he wanted to speak to a ‘rational’ person. Not a day goes by when I don’t hear those words in my head. He said he was sorry and I believe he was but I keep hearing it.

People at church have been lovely and my friends and family too. But I feel sorry for him because (I’ve been told) it is that age old cycle of abuse- ‘nasty – apology – nice, nasty- apology – nice’. I just have to leave it to God I know, but sometimes I feel like I’m out of strength. I keep trying to work it out but I can’t – I’m exhausted.

Thanks for all your support guys I appreciate it.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Top

Copyright ©1999-2024 2-in-2-1 Limited. All rights reserved. Disclaimer