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Old 5th December 2004, 06:50 PM   #46
Lovey
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Wink Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

PS you guys are really sweet and caring.

Sad guy, i agree that you can get some toys to use on yourself and her, together, though. This way, you can feel that you're making her orgasm and it's not the toy.

My husband and I do that all the time and it makes him very hard and ready to make love to me. He gives me an orgasm with the toys. I don't really feel a need to do it alone. If I feel I want to have sex with them, we use them together and it's loving and wonderful. I hope that you can have the same thing with your wife.

Going it alone -masturbating- really can affect a marriage. It can turn it upside down unless you understand each other. I learned a lot about dear husband over this porn mess! I am better for it as is he.
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Old 11th December 2004, 03:20 AM   #47
Mystified
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Even though I've read countless posts on the internet from women whose husbands are masturbating to porn instead of making love to them, I have always had a hard time understanding why this is. It's as if there is something missing in the story. I understand porn offers fantasy and variety but it is still just images on a screen and not a real live warm body. I may be wrong but I suspect these men are no longer aroused by their wives and girlfriends and that's why they masturbate. I can't imagine any man who's partner really turns him on would elect to masturbate in front of a computer rather than indulge ALLl his senses in the bedroom.
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Old 11th December 2004, 04:48 PM   #48
Still Sad Guy
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Mystified,
That is my point exactly. I'm on the other side though (I'm a male), my Mrs. it appears would rather M than be with me. She doesn't communicate to me what turns her on and it hurts because would rather escape into her own little world rather than "be with me". I tend to agree with you when you say the warm, caring body on the other side would be a greater turn on than the alternative. By her not communicating to me, my mind goes into overdrive and then thinks stuff (which may be farfetched) like I bet she does wish it were ANOTHER warm body next to hers or "mr sad guy" is pathetic and not a decent lover. It kills me when she says that to her, sex is not a major part (100%) of our relationship but then again, it's not too good at the moment. After talking things over, I'm starting to look at her sexually in a different light and am now "losing the spark" at least for now. I don't get a statement she made to me when she said " Truly and honestly, for the most part, I don't care if I "O" or not", I am satisfied. Meaning she was satisfied with it just being us. That's not consistent with what's been going on and she's just trying to pacify me. I'm not that naive. All I'm asking for is a little honesty. Men, Women, any comments please?
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Old 14th December 2004, 02:14 PM   #49
Lovey
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystified
Even though I've read countless posts on the internet from women whose husbands are masturbating to porn instead of making love to them, I have always had a hard time understanding why this is. It's as if there is something missing in the story. I understand porn offers fantasy and variety but it is still just images on a screen and not a real live warm body. I may be wrong but I suspect these men are no longer aroused by their wives and girlfriends and that's why they masturbate. I can't imagine any man who's partner really turns him on would elect to masturbate in front of a computer rather than indulge ALLl his senses in the bedroom.
It depends on the situation, Mystified. Like I've said, I have sex with my husband a few times a day. He's not lacking in that department. He finds me extremely sexy and is turned on by me constantly. He isn't electing to masturbate RATHER than make love. Not all of them are. He masturbates if I am in bed or showering, to get rid of the excess horniness. I can't be expected to have sex with my husband four times a day, just to combat his desire for that moment. I have my own things I need to do. He doesn't expect me to do it , either and I don't mind him masturbating.
Masturbation is a normal healthy thing to do. It is not something that he does in avoidance of sex with me. Be careful of what you say unless you know it is fact. That offended me.
I actually normally don't mind porn at all -I worked in porn for some time- it is the lying and hiding that I didn't like. It made me feel like we couldn't communicate as I thought we could.
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Old 14th December 2004, 07:31 PM   #50
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Lovey.....

I was talking about men who would rather masturbate to porn than be with their wives.. not men who do both. I have read dozens and dozens of posts from women all over the internet complaining that the marriage is sexless because of porn. I think you are one of the lucky ones as he is still aroused by you.

From what I've read, before internet porn, even if a man was no longer attracted to his wife, he would have sex with her out of sheer pent up sexual desire- that being better than masturbating to a magazine or fantasizing about the new secretary at work. But now men who are no longer physically attracted to their wives actually prefer video and internet porn because of the variety and high quality images and the intensity of the porn/masturbation experience.
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Old 16th December 2004, 02:09 AM   #51
KellyJ
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

The married porn user walks a fine line between masturbation and sex with his wife. I suppose some men can go for years doing both, ideed some women here have said they join their husbands watching porn. But the hardcore porn user feels uncomfortable watching porn with his wife. He sees his "porn time" as HIS time, a time to be alone and to lose himself in the porn fantasy. Something he can't do with his wife in the room.

This fine line he walks can easily make a turn into more porn/masturbation and less and less wife. AS she grows older, perhaps puts on weight, or just the familiarity and monotony of intercourse with the same person for years and years can easily cause a man to begin to prefer the porn fantasy over sex with his wife.

I'd say any woman who is not a newlywed and who's husband is a regular porn user should keep all this in mind and keep a sharp eye out for the signs of a dwindling marital sex life.
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Old 20th December 2004, 03:53 AM   #52
Lovey
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystified
Lovey.....

I was talking about men who would rather masturbate to porn than be with their wives.. not men who do both. I have read dozens and dozens of posts from women all over the internet complaining that the marriage is sexless because of porn. I think you are one of the lucky ones as he is still aroused by you.

From what I've read, before internet porn, even if a man was no longer attracted to his wife, he would have sex with her out of sheer pent up sexual desire- that being better than masturbating to a magazine or fantasizing about the new secretary at work. But now men who are no longer physically attracted to their wives actually prefer video and internet porn because of the variety and high quality images and the intensity of the porn/masturbation experience.
I realise you were talking of the ones who would rather jerk off than be with their partners. (I am sensitive) Many people do both. Sure women complain that the porn is the reason the sex life is sexless but how do we know it is the entire reason? There are two sides. Do you think that they may be having other issues and porn is just a symptom? I mean it sounds like that is what you are saying.
Yes, he is still aroused by me. I am not the reason he is turning to porn. He's done it since he was young. My looks and or weight have nothing to do with this. It doesn't always have to do with someone's looks. For me, he does not have sex with me out of " sheer pent up sexual desire" (not that you meant that towards me)
We have always enjoyed sex twice, sometimes three times a day for years. We've never had any issues in the bedroom. My issue was always trust and now is the porn and the mistrust. He had lied to me about two other things non related, and I hate lies. I hate that we were not as open about this until now. Thanks for your response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyJ
The married porn user walks a fine line between masturbation and sex with his wife. I suppose some men can go for years doing both, ideed some women here have said they join their husbands watching porn. But the hardcore porn user feels uncomfortable watching porn with his wife. He sees his "porn time" as HIS time, a time to be alone and to lose himself in the porn fantasy. Something he can't do with his wife in the room.

This fine line he walks can easily make a turn into more porn/masturbation and less and less wife. AS she grows older, perhaps puts on weight, or just the familiarity and monotony of intercourse with the same person for years and years can easily cause a man to begin to prefer the porn fantasy over sex with his wife.

I'd say any woman who is not a newlywed and who's husband is a regular porn user should keep all this in mind and keep a sharp eye out for the signs of a dwindling marital sex life.
"The married porn user walks a fine line between masturbation and sex with his wife. " What do you mean by that? That made no sense to me. I don't understand. Can you expand on this? Thanks!
My husband used porn long before I ever met him. It has nothing to do with me, whatsoever! His last partner used it alone as well and he thought nothing of walking in on her using it and jillin off. (I just found that out a few days ago.) He used porn as a means to an end. (orgasm) I figure he might be addicted to orgasm.
He jerks off sometimes because he wants to just get off he says. This can be after we've made love 12 times a week! If I say no, one time, he might be on the net while I am showering to get off.
Sometimes I only want sex once a day and so he will jerk off a few times a week he says, or I will jerk him off or have given him oral... and he has also used porn these times.. obviously!!
Growing older and putting on weight- doesn't apply to me. Not to some others I'd imagine too,.
You have to remember I was in the business! I am still the sexy woman he married and we are still newlyweds. That doesn't matter either. We have been together in total about three years or so. Nothing has changed. He is very much in love with me. Nothing has changed with us sexually, intimately,... etc. Like I said, I discovered that he was still using porn, when we met and he offered to stop. I assumed he had, then found out about 6mos later that he lied and he promised again he just wouldn't look. I told him that he could but don't lie or hide it. This time, I draw the line, because there is obviously something deeper going on I thought. I don't want him watching it, I don't like the keeping it a secret even more!

I think that people should keep their eye on their relationship, work on it before bad things happen. I think that they need to have open discussions. It's not always about sex, I think. I just don't know. I think it is about something within themselves.
My situation in particular isn't about me or sex. It's about his habit and possibly his need for orgasm.
I used to watch porn all the time to get off, and found it fine. I didn't hide it from anyone or let it become an issue. I was jealous and astounded at the type of hardcore porn he was watching the first time I saw it. The second I came across it by accident. He had named it something else to hide it from me.
The fact that he has kept on hiding it and lying about watching it that it became a real issue for me. I detest lies. Lies make me feel resentful and not close with him.
I find that the men and, the women on this forum, so far have a different outlook on the whole thing. It is very interesting.

I love my husband and I want things to work and to get stronger and better.
I'm just looking for a way to feel closer to him *consistently* I am feeling close to him throughout the day but not constantly as I did before this last lie.
I am looking for a way to forgive the lying and hiding and get back to where we were, intimately and sexually. I guess it takes time?
I am feeling the strain from not being made love to, not having as many orgasms as I normally do with him. I guess I will have to look to myself for the answers.
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Old 20th December 2004, 04:31 AM   #53
Lovey
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Red face Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Bleh. I'd like to look to myself.

Tonight he went out to a mutual friends house. I asked that he come home very early because I dislike being home alone at night. (We are in process of getting a security system in.) He called a half hour after the time I asked he be home for and said he'd be another half hour. I understand that what they are doing takes time - it's now been a hour and a half later. I understand they are busy and can't time these things but at this time, I need him closeby until I trust better.
I am feeling resentment and anger. I think I'm being insecure, and guessing it's because of all that has happened.
I truly hate this. I feel butterflies in my stomach and am afraid to sleep as I hear noises in the house, with the pets and creaks.
Is this insecurity ever going to go away? Has anyone else gotten over this crap and has your relationship sustained? Lately I wonder how long we will last. I have always dreamed of someone like him and now I look at him different. I'm afraid of our future. I realise what will be will be but I also believe it's up to us to make things better. I just don't know how.

I feel very alone right now. Empty. No matter what he says, it doesn't assauge my feelings lately. Seems like things went downhill and I'm unsure what is next.
I feel that he disrespected me and didn't understand what it meant to me to have him here before I went to sleep. Now that I"m going to bed we won't be close, we won't make love and I am **** outta luck again.
I'm going to sleep now.
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Old 20th December 2004, 10:02 AM   #54
Kate
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Dear Lovey,

You sound really fed up. The lying has hurt you and you really don't sound as though you feel very secure in your relationship.



My experience of relationships and marriage is probably very different from yours, but what strikes me from where I am standing is that your relationship seems to be very focussed on sex. To be honest I find your accounts of multiple orgasms everyday hard to believe and I don't think there are too many people out here, who will find it easy either. I'm not sure I'd have the energy to focus on the rest of my relationship, to build up trust and understanding, to be involved in other ways together if I was doing all that. Perhaps thatís the problem, your relationship has become unbalanced with too much focus on sex.



What I hear from all the focus on porn etc in your sex lives is a very self centred focus on gaining pleasure rather than giving pleasure to the other. Masturbation to porn is a very self-focussed thing to do. You can do it on your own, without involving anyone else. OK you might start off doing it together, but as you become more intent on your own desires, why bother to include anyone else. That's one reason I don't think it's good for a marriage. It tends to push a couple apart rather than drawing them closer together. What happened to the ideal of sex as an expression of the joy and excitement a couple have in each other, rather than something to fulfil their physical and sexual appetite?



Perhaps you could start thinking about what is good and what could be better about your whole relationship and begin to talk about that with your husband. Why not have a look at some of the articles on trust and communication here. Why not review the rest of your relationship and get working on the other parts of it such as friendship, shared interests and projects. Who knows, it may not always be possible in the year's ahead to have a superb sexual relationship, but itís still possible to have a secure and fulfilling marriage.

Kate
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Old 24th December 2004, 02:07 AM   #55
Kelly J
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Lovey wrote:

>>>>"The married porn user walks a fine line between masturbation and sex with his wife. " What do you mean by that? That made no sense to me. I don't understand. Can you expand on this? Thanks!>>>>>>

From reading your posts I gather you don't understand what I and others here have been talking about because it has not (yet?) happened to you. Consider yourself lucky. You also sound young (I may be wrong) so I take it you haven't been married that long.

In most circumstances the husband starts prefering the porn years into the marriage, usually about the time the children are in their teen years or older. Younger men can and do use porn, some at the expense of their wive's satisfaction, but it is far more common in men over 40. This is when they start to walk that fine line I was talking about.

The biggest problem in younger men who use porn, especially those who are heavy porn users and have been since puberty, is that some have difficulty getting aroused enough by sex with a real person because that person usually doesn't match the porn fantasies they have become used to. These cases however are rare but sex therapists are seeing an increase in erectile difficulties and orgasm difficulties in heavy porn users of all ages when they try to have sex with a partner.
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Old 31st December 2004, 06:26 PM   #56
Lovey
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

I am fed up, Kate. The lying is just too much for me to enjoy a wonderful caring, trusting relationship.

Well I am only a newlywed so the amount we have sex is going to be a little more than someone married 7 years for example. (We've both been married before.) I didn't mean to sound as if the sex is the focus. It's not the focus at all actually. Sorry if I mislead you.
We really have had sex three times a day. Why shouldn't we? Why is that hard to believe? It went down to once or twice though. That is normal for us. It has nothing to do with multiple orgasms, but that we both liked to show our love with intimacy. We don't always penetrate. We change things daily and do other things sexually together.
This doesn't interfere with our work (we own a business) or our friends with whom we see a few times a week. We take walks almost every night and go to the gym to exercise. We have date nights and communicate regularly. We don't watch much tv or spend too much time on the computers (used to) so we really don't focus on sex. When we go to bed or awake, we usually make love. The third time a day was not consistent. It happened mid day. I used to work in the adult industry, myself- backend. Is it becoming clearer!?
We are very balanced in all we do. IT's something that we have always strived for.
I don't watch porn at all. I quit the industry. We masturbate together all the time. It is part of sex for us. For us sex can be mutual masturbation, oral, manual or penetration or all.

What the issue is is trust. I just found out that he has lied about everything to people all the time for years. Its something that is a really huge issue. It is not really the porn as much as the lies and hiding which he shouldn't need to do.
I will go to that site. Thanks.
I am no longer secure with our relationship- you are right. It is because of the lying. It just hurts and hurts until I become numb. We were getting things back on track until he lied again today.
I still am at a loss and feel very alone but I thank you for your replies.
---------------
Kelly J- Thanks so much for expaining that. I was thinking a few different things when you said that.
It is all in how we say things. WE are both not young at all! We are not middle age but in between. I was once married 7 years, and so was he. I am not sure why you'd think I was wrong, but possibly because I didn't know your meaning of that >>>>"The married porn user walks a fine line between masturbation and sex with his wife.>>>>> It has several meanings to me, thats all!

This is my second marriage and we've been married a short time. Been together three years.

This is the issue I was referring to in my other posts, that if he starts watching it now a few times a week, won't it grow to a daily event- I know that it will.
So I understand you now. You're saying the same thing I am, that eventually he won't become aroused by just sex or me. I know that. That's why it is so important for me to try to get help now, instead of waiting.
It's not that I am young or that I don't know what happens. It's that I do know what happens and I know everything in my head, I just don't like it, nor does my heart understand.
I am really concerned that these lies won't stop. He found the keylogger password and lied about that too. See? He scored about an 8 yes's on the test you have here on this site.
I am wondering if he's ever going to stop and wondering if I will have to be the dutiful wife. I think that porn is a start to chat with other women. I say that concerned for my marriage and my happiness.
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Old 31st December 2004, 06:28 PM   #57
Lovey
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Sorry, it was on noporn.com (the test). I also posted about my issue in another thread.
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Old 2nd January 2005, 05:01 AM   #58
KellyJ
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

LOVEY: I've done alot of research on men, marriage and porn. I just wanted to let you know that being angry about the lies more than the porn itself is very, very common with women. Many marital and sex therapists have a hard time understanding this. I have read posts from other women in your situation on other web sites where they actually say things like ---I don't really even mind if he watches the porn as long as he doesn't lie to me about it.

The lies seem to be the core problem in many of these cases and the women who have this attitude (as opposed to feeling inferior to the pornobabes) are really the strong ones, the women who have a fair amount of good self esteem and who feel that truth and respect are the really important things in a marriage.

I just want you to know that others share your feelings and your attitude.
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Old 4th January 2005, 03:51 PM   #59
Lovey
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyJ
LOVEY: I've done alot of research on men, marriage and porn. I just wanted to let you know that being angry about the lies more than the porn itself is very, very common with women. Many marital and sex therapists have a hard time understanding this. I have read posts from other women in your situation on other web sites where they actually say things like ---I don't really even mind if he watches the porn as long as he doesn't lie to me about it.

The lies seem to be the core problem in many of these cases and the women who have this attitude (as opposed to feeling inferior to the pornobabes) are really the strong ones, the women who have a fair amount of good self esteem and who feel that truth and respect are the really important things in a marriage.

I just want you to know that others share your feelings and your attitude.

Thank you so much for saying that. The lies make me realise how little he trusts me in this respect. THat's what truly bothers me. We had a few long discussions and he has realised some things in his past that have led him to lying. He has been lying to people if he felt guilty or ashamed about something. I understand that. He is going to get counselling to get over some past abuse that he has realised has something to do with some of this. I will go with as well, as I need help obviously!
It's true. I don't feel inferior to the models in the least. It is not them. I know that I am beautiful and sexy. I just hate not being trusted in a marriage in any respect and I hate not trusting him. I have always wanted a trustful union in the fullest!!!
Its slow going at this point. He seems to want to make me happy and is really trying.
It's the old good wife/bad wife crap that he has. He says he can't watch the porn with me because it would turn him off and he doesn't feel comfortable with that. I undersand that. It's a one thirty second get your rocks off thing -- I've done it in the past. I just don't want our sex life to be all about him being alone jerking off. I want us to be together, doing whatever we want to do.
I know other woman who aren't as lucky as me. They dont' get sex at all as the husband is jerking off to porn and doesn't want them. I know some wives do it to. I don't mean to judge men only.
One thing that bothers me is that he has this thing now that he wants to please me even more, sexually. I do feel close to him at times, and I'm trying not to shut down. I sometimes do wonder if he is going through this honeymoon phase as part of his guilt. That makes me sad though. I don't want him to feel so guilty. I don't think it will help us heal.

He has watched one movie since keylogger has been up. I found out and confronted him and he lied, to me twice about it, then told the truth. See? It's so frustrating that I feel that I am not a woman for him who can be trusted to be alright with this.
He agrees that he doesn't want porn a part of his life and since is changing jobs sometime this year-new carreer move, he feels that with porn and computers not a big part of our life that things will change. In time.
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Old 4th January 2005, 04:48 PM   #60
Lovey
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

I just remembered something he said yesterday. I asked him a few hypothetica questions, to get a feel for how he thinks of certain things. I asked if he would mind if I went to see male strippers, (Yes he would) or femlale strippers (Yes he would (I've been in the past before him) or if he would mind if I watched porn on my own and masturbated or took some pictures of nude male models, or whatever, to bed with me and used my vibrators to get off while looking at the male models naked. He said he wouldn't like that at all.

Is it a double standard?? You f-n betcha seems that way, but in reality, maybe he doesn't mean it to be.

See, that's the issue too. Is it for anyone else? Does he mind if you look at it?

PS I'm not into 'vendettas' . I don't want to get back at him . That would only cause pain and more issues. (Although sometimes I think of it, when I'm hurt and angry)
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