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Old 4th October 2013, 11:13 AM   #106
ronnoco
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

Sunny,

In my opinion, you are clearly not happy with your life and the problem is your wife. You have never had the right feelings for her and after 22 years, you never will. It's never going to change. It's gone on way too long and the more it festers, the worse it will get. There is no magic cure that will make you have the right feelings and it's wrong that you don't have the right feelings for your wife.

Being married to someone who is sticking their finger up at you, back chatting you and someone who you simply tolerate says it all - this is not a marriage.

It doesn't really matter whether you will meet someone else who blows your mind in the way your may dream of something like this happening. I think what's important is having the opportunity to try and find that special person and try and find happiness. Life is precious, and short, everyone deserves to be happy. You have worked at it, you really have but clearly, your wife is not the right person for you.

There will never be a good time to break up when you have kids but the kids will see what is happening with you and your wife and what sort of example are you guys setting them? You will become more resentful, more bitter, etc

I'm sure something regarding custody could be sorted with the children. There is a solution to every problem, you just need to find it.

All the very best.
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Old 4th October 2013, 12:00 PM   #107
chosen
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

ronocco so you dont think that we are to keep the promises that we make to our spouse? You don't think that we need to put our responsibilities for spouse and children before ourselves? Remember we did promise for better or for worse. He did choose to marry her.

My husband wasn't very happy with his first wife. She was manipulative and controlling. However he had promised to be faithful and stay with her for life, and they had 2 children, so there is no way he would ever have ended the marriage. She eventually did meet another man and ended it herself after 23 years, so he had no choice. Her affair didn't last(as so few do)and she is still alone many years later.

Whatever you say, children are devastated by their parents breaking up.

I feel sad that after all this time his wife is trying so hard and wanting so much for this marriage to work, that he may now leave.
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Old 4th October 2013, 01:41 PM   #108
Raymond
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

Well spoken Chosen. Marriage is not just something to be tossed aside just like that. It is far deeper and profound and a divorce will affect her and even you Sunny deeper than you know, not to mention the children.

At the bottom of all this is the capacity to love. Love wants the best for the other person. Nobody forced you to marry. You chose to. As Chosen said vows were made before God. I don't want to make this sound like "you made your bed now lie in it.". Far from it. I honestly believe there is a key to be found here. I believe that key lies in you not her. With all her faults she is committed to the marriage and to you. Yes she is far from perfect. Aren't we all? Real love actually sees past that as Roses was touching on. Don't we all need to be loved for who we are and not for what we do or what we can earn and not just for the outer appearance as pleasant as that is? That is what we signed up for in sickness and in health for better or worse. I know it is a massive challenge but millions have done it and succeeded.

You admit you have never loved her as she needed Sunny. You admit you are failing. That is to your credit that you are humble enough to see that. You say that she is attractive and that you are sexually compatible so it is not all bad. What is lacking is real love and acceptance which she so desperately needs. That is what you are looking for too it seems. What would you have to offer long term after deserting your wife and family?

It is obvious what the right thing to do is. So what is the problem? A problem we all have. Selfishness. We think we can get there by grasping whereas the opposite is true. We find ourselves when we are able to give. Most wives respond amazingly to real love so you have the keys. Being able to love is still the key here. If you can get there you will not have this problem. I think the alternative is giving in to your abiding deception that is robbing you of what you could and should be having.

Last edited by Raymond; 4th October 2013 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 4th October 2013, 02:25 PM   #109
ronnoco
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

I can only be honest, and in my honest opinion, if I were married and my wife felt for me the way that Sunny feels for his wife, if after trying really hard to make it work with no success, I wouldn't want her to be with me, even despite having children. Surely deep down she must want someone who truly loves her and Sunny doesn't.

I would want to be with someone who loves me fully, a partner, soul mate, best friend, lover, like we are one - for me, this is what marriage is about.

I fully appreciate that this is a Christian based forum and that unless there is some form of adultery or abuse you will always advise to keep the marriage together, but for me, a lifetime of misery, regret and so much more is not a healthy happy life for anyone (children included)
Raymond and Chosen - you guys offer incredible advice, I've said that many times, but not everyone is religious, not everyone believes in God the way you do and therefore their conceptions of marriage are different to yours. I loved my wife with all my heart and wanted to be with her forever. If she lost both her legs, I would still want her because I had that connection, that desire, that love for her - Sunny doesn't have this.

Look at how happy Chosen's husband he is now compared to how he was with his wife of 23 years...Chosen's husband probably felt how Sunny feels now. Why can't Sunny have what Chosen's husband has found?. I don't think he should have to wait for his wife to end it to start searching for this if he has exhausted all possibilities and after 22 years of not being happy, I think he has. I think after 22 years, it's too late to find the key.

I'm not suggesting for 1 second that what I say is correct, it is simply my honest opinion.

Last edited by ronnoco; 4th October 2013 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 4th October 2013, 03:06 PM   #110
chosen
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

Ronnocco, the thing is that she does love him a lot, and is trying very hard to make the marriage work.
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Old 4th October 2013, 06:31 PM   #111
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

There is room for different opinions on here but truth is truth regardless of religion wherever one finds a truth on here. Sunny will have to make his own decisions. Each can only speak what they believe. It is only a forum.
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Old 4th October 2013, 07:11 PM   #112
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

I have found this forum to be very helpful. It really didn't occur to me that religious beliefs played a major role in the advice I was getting. And even if it had I would still have assessed it in exactly the same way. Does my belief in the vows of marriage make me a religious man ? Not necessarily. My vows were a promise to my wife, a belief in me that I could deliver that promise. I still believe, I still honour those vows. Religious forum ?? Maybe. But I do admire those who live their lives with certain values , not that I could ever do that. I'm to inconsistant and afraid. Does faith in something or someone take those things away ??
I hope you find love sunny , I also hope its love inside your marriage.
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Old 4th October 2013, 07:39 PM   #113
chosen
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

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Originally Posted by toellandback View Post
I have found this forum to be very helpful. It really didn't occur to me that religious beliefs played a major role in the advice I was getting. And even if it had I would still have assessed it in exactly the same way. Does my belief in the vows of marriage make me a religious man ? Not necessarily. My vows were a promise to my wife, a belief in me that I could deliver that promise. I still believe, I still honour those vows. Religious forum ?? Maybe. But I do admire those who live their lives with certain values , not that I could ever do that. I'm to inconsistant and afraid. Does faith in something or someone take those things away ??
I hope you find love sunny , I also hope its love inside your marriage.
Its not always easy living by certain truths, but on the other hand I have a very strong sense of morality and honesty and truth, and I had that before I was a Christian as well. My conscience is very strong, and just wouldnt allow me to do certain things that so many others think nothing of doing.
On the other hand God is so very wise and the only reason He tells us what things to do is for our own good, and time and time again I see people acting badly and it nearly always ends in tears for them and for others. There is always a good reason for what He says, and if we step outside that it never ends well. There is real and lasting freedom in living within certain boundaries, just as children thrive when they know their boundaries and the consequences of going out side them. God never makes us do anything, and we all have free will, but if we cross certain lines, there are always consequences. His teachings are good for all of us whether we follow Him or not, and most of the laws of our countries are based on His values and standards.

Last edited by chosen; 4th October 2013 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 4th October 2013, 07:48 PM   #114
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

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I can't express how grateful I am for your time, all of you, guiding me through this. I need this so badly.

Ronnoco, I must say I share your views more than anyone else. I don't think this is healthy for me or her or the kids. That being said, leaving her would be the single most selfish act I've ever committed. It would break her heart, her parents, my kids, my parents, our friends.... It's a terrifying leap, and a big part of not jumping is the knowledge that there'll be profound sadness for everyone for a long time. As I've said, from the outside everyone loves us, loves us together. Only she and I, and you all, really understand what's happening on the inside. I admit I'm a bit of a coward, and as my therapist said, very passive, and also extremely repressed, as I carry all this baggage around with me. She never had to until just recently... ignorance is bliss.

Roses, she pleases me greatly (now). She provides everything and I don't take it for granted. I care about her and always have; her well being, her happiness, another reason I said I only wanted to separate if it was her choice. I wanted to continue to be there for her (though I don't know if she'd let me after a separation), support her in all her endeavors, because she's important to me. Even when she wakes up, she's beautiful. I love the way she smells, the sound of her voice, and I respect her as a human being and the mother of my children.

I know everyone must be saying "If you have all these feelings for her, what's the problem?!?" There are many people I care about greatly and respect and admire, but I don't have feelings for them and wouldn't ask them to marry me, in other words I don't love them. I did ask my wife, but I at the time I did it, it was like a peace offering - ok, you won't set me free, and I don't want to be selfish and desert because you need help, so if I do this for you, will you please treat me with kindness and respect? She said yes, but things got even worse after that. I suppose she finally had me so there was no need to put anything into it.

I tried to leave her 3 times during our engagement alone, once after she took off all her clothes when she was drunk at a party. When I drove her home that night I cried the whole way and she laughed the whole way. The next morning I said it was over, shortly after that she seduced me and again I came back, feeling horrible about myself.

These are hard things to overcome- that's just one of many really damaging things that have gone on over the years. I know the key is forgetting about this and accepting the present but it's so hard, especially after I feel I've given my life over to this person who I never loved, for her benefit, and she threw it away.

So like Raymond says, it's true that the problem is me. She wants me to move on, accept, now that she really is turning into a different person, and she truly is. It's just that messed up thing inside me, the feeling that has never gone away that she's not the one for me. Even now that she is kind, tries to do right by me on all levels, and for the first time listens to me... Just listening and being kind aren't enough to inspire love. They are just the fundamentals of a healthy relationship, which again, I am grateful for.

We had a huge argument the other night, shouting about divorce and legal battles, etc, without much resolution, but we came together again as we always do, holding each other for a long time this morning when the kids were at school, saying nothing. I tied the laces on her running shoes. I don't want to crush her but I know in my heart it's not right. It's so heart wrenching. The cycle goes on...

As Chosen and Raymond say, I did say my vows, for better or worse, so I continue to give this time. Saying them in the eyes of God unfortunately doesn't have any meaning for me, as I believe God is a synonym for the Universe, but saying my vows before her does mean something, even if on that day I didn't feel she was there, present with me, at the altar. She's admitted this and apologized for it.

She reminded me during our fight that she only changed a few months ago, and to please give it time. We've been through so much I want to give it time for our kids, for her, for me, even though my heart is screaming at me that it's best for all to move on. She is trying hard, and it's my sincere hope that somehow this will inspire a change in me too.
Yes the promises were made to her.
I really hope that you give it time, the change is so recent.

I suppose that I feel strongly that we have responsibilities that outweigh whether we feel madly 'in love' or not. No one ever said that we are going to love our spouses all of our lives, and that's where the better or worse comes in. That's where the promise to always be faithful comes in. There is no way that I could ever have left my children just because I didn't feel in love any more. Who said that marriage is all about love anyway? Its far more about friendship and companionship and bringing up children and sharing and supporting.
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Old 4th October 2013, 08:26 PM   #115
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

Some very eloquent points sunny.
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Old 4th October 2013, 08:55 PM   #116
chosen
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

Trouble is sunny there are so many different types of love, and the love that you have at one time may change into a different sort of love in another. A romantic love isn't always going to be a romantic love, but may change into more of a close friendship sort of love. Over the lifetime of a marriage love will change and change again. Its may also come and go. Many marriages are arranged, and they start without even knowing the person, let alone loving them, but they are committed to each other even if that means they never have that 'romantic' love.

To me marriage is a commitment and should never depend on feelings, but I do appreciate that today its more about what I want and what I need rather than commitment and responsibility. I am not getting at you when I say that, but its what I see all around me.
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Old 5th October 2013, 08:06 AM   #117
chosen
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

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A romantic love might change as you said, but there was never romantic love here to begin with. That's the difference in my situation. And yes, there are many kinds of love, and I do have many of those for my wife- friend, mother to my children, companion, maybe these can still change, as you said, into romantic love. And I know many marriages endure without having that one special kind of love. Still, even my wife says she doesn't want to be with me if I don't love her in that way - she doesn't want to be married to someone who considers her a friend. I wouldn't want that either.

I understand what you're saying about what marriage means today. Marriage is not the same as it once was. Over half divorce, or so I hear. This idea of being a failure, or one of those on the wrong side of 50% is not a place I want to be.

May I ask, do you love your husband in that one special way? It sounds as though you do. If the two of you share that, I'm coming to realize, you are truly blessed.
Yes I do have that love with my husband of 8 years, but didn't really have it so much with my first husband. However that wasn't the reason for the divorce after 25 years, that was because of things I found out he had done that were terrible. Had he not done the things he did, I would still be married to him now. My husband didn't have that sort of love with his first wife either, but as I said before, his promises meant that he would never have left her.

You say that she doesn't want to stay with a man who only loves her as a friend, but she has stayed with you all these years knowing that.
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Old 5th October 2013, 10:58 AM   #118
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

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I have to disagree with that one idea... I believe marriage should be about love, not necessarily mad love, because we all know that fades, but love nevertheless. Love is the glue that binds a marriage, allows for acceptance, not responsibility. I think responsibility emerges from love, having that person's life in your hands. Without love marriage is a lonely place for both people. These are all "shoulds" though, they aren't necessarily reality, as I know too well.
Of course marriage is about love and I believe you do have a measure of that in your marriage from what you have described. Of course marital love will have the extra dimension of the physical which sets it apart from other relationships. It sounds like you did have a hard time in the past. I hope you have been able to forgive and move on as she seems to have.

I assume she has always been physically faithful only to you?

My wife chips in and says the love in marriage can develop much deeper than romantic feelings which will evaporate in time. That doesn't mean that we should not conserve the romance within our marriages. I often bring my wife flowers not because I am romantic but because I see what it does for her.

I think your main problem is this thought that she is not the right one. People can still marry the so called right one and still make a total mess of it. It is an illusion that when we find the 'right one' that everything damaged within us will be healed. Our marriages are what we both bring to it whether it be good things or bad things, and we all can bring a load of junk into our marriages that needs sorting out. As long as you are both trying to sow good things the marriage will succeed and be the blessing and comfort to you both that it was meant to be.
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Old 5th October 2013, 11:39 AM   #119
chosen
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

I have to agree with Raymond.

To make this marriage work, I do think you need to let go of this terrible discontentment, this idea that she isnt the 'right' one(which in your mind was confirmed by the OW who you mistakenly thought in your mind WAS the right one,)the thoughts of divorcing her(don't even let that word stay in your thoughts for a second),in fact of anything but knowing and believing this that is the women you marred, and for life. She is now your 'right one' because you married her.

Once you have stopped looking for 'outs' and start appreciating what you DO have(which is far more than many do), then things will change more quickly.
To me, staying with an attitude of 'oh well I will give it a year or two and then decide' isn't going to work. Once you decide that no matter what, you are with her and the children for good, and you let go of the past, it will make a vast difference.

What we allow ourselves to think and what we say are vitally important. So each time something negative comes into your mind, replace it with something positive.
Thankfulness is very helpful ands important. List all the things you have, and list all the many good qualities about your wife. Discontentment is so destructive.

I saw the state of my husband after being with a wife for 23 years who was discontent. He was like a shell. Since we have been together he has blossomed. Dont allow that negative emotion to take hold, and please dont ever let thoughts or fantasies about the OW stay in your mind.
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Old 6th October 2013, 09:50 AM   #120
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

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There is room for different opinions on here but truth is truth regardless of religion wherever one finds a truth on here. Sunny will have to make his own decisions. Each can only speak what they believe. It is only a forum.
I think this is so important, Raymond. These Men are allowed to express how they're feeling in a non-judgemental and safe atmosphere.

We cannot force these people not to feel the way they are; their fundamental feelings are valid and we don't get to read men's feelings too much in society. We mainly read what they DO but not enough how they are thinking and feeling.
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