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Old 3rd April 2005, 06:25 PM   #151
Hopeful
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by SelaW
Before porn did men just think about their wives while having sex? I doubt it.
The new secretary, the supermarket checkout girl, the kid's teacher the list goes on and on. Porn has caused many problems for married women but giving hubby something to fantasize about in the bedroom for the first time is not one of them.
SelaW,

I don't have a clue what goes on in the minds of men (or women) while having sex. I only can speak for myself. When my wife and I are making love, I can only think of her. I can only imagine that this is the case with other men.

Men are visual. Women also dress up. They go together. With birds, the male species is usually more colorful in order to detract away predators from the female who might be on the nest or with newborn chicks. With humans, the female is the more attractive one. Just imagine what happens to a normal ordinary man who catches sight of a woman wearing a tight skirt or pants. Women can't blame men for them looking attractive. Though woman's attractiveness might catch a man's attention, it isn't the reason why we fall in love with them. My wife is very attractive, but it is not the reason why I fell in love with her. Men will always be looking at women (the new secretary, the supermarket checkout girl, the kid's teacher ...), especially if they aren't uglier than a mud-rail fence.

But you are talking about porn. Porn is only skin deep. And one can't talk to a picture. Men have the greater propensity to remain at the skin deep level. The dirty old man and the horny teen boy is no different. A woman's butt looks just as good today as it did when the hormones were turned on. And I am sure a woman's fine butt will look just as good when that same man is old and grey.

Again, I can only guess what men thought of before porn. In fact, 'pornos' is a Greek term invented centuries ago, probably when prostitution and erotic dancing began. Whenever man discovered the vagina and the breast was probably when porn began. But I am only speculating. Archealogists discovered a tunnel under a street in ancient Ephesus that ran between the library and the whorehouse. Now we know why all those philosophers of Greece and Ionia were so messed up; they had their thoughts elsewhere.

Married women have been deeply troubled by the phenomenon of porn. Earlier in this thread I tried to give a reason why men fall into it. Read this entire thread. It has helped me greatly in trying to understand the fuller affect of porn's intrusion into marriage, including my own. When new technology and innovation occurs, as in the case of the Internet, new problems are created. Actually, they are old problems but via a new means. Porn magazine publishers are getting into Internet porn because they are losing money through old conventional print formats. Porn has become more intrusive and available and private. Women have to understand, not necessarily accept, the fact that Internet porn especially has the upper hand (no pun intended). We can come up with ways to circumvent it and prevent it, but if there is a will there will be a way to access it. There are even tricks to getting around porn seeker software. Women may think their hubbies are now clean, but the computer leaves many loopholes in it.

The solution hasn't been found yet in how to deal with Internet porn. Women find themselves in a losing battle. They feel dejected and hurt. If there was a consciousness regarding the proper way to prevent porn, how many daddies have taught their sons that lesson? Sex and porn are the two most unspoken topics at the dinner table. Our puritanistic attitudes have kept it a mute issue in the home while the media has had a field day with it (and also benefited from it).

In marriage, the bedroom is for hubby and wife. Married men have to come to realize how good they have it with their own wives. I sometimes want to whack some of them over the head when they are talking porn or looking at other women when their own wives are reall nice looking babes. The problem lies outside of reason.

But you make a strong statement.

Hopeful
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Old 4th April 2005, 11:53 PM   #152
lisitsyn
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

I just found this forum today and I can't explain how relieved I was to see there were other people in similar situation. Snakedriver's posts on page 3 and Hopeful's posts were like someone was reading my thoughts..

I married a wonderful beautiful girl three years ago [I was 21], before marriage our sex life was better then I could ever imagine, really I was happy as a puppy..
We were thinking about getting married in summer, but life brought some adjustments to our plans [at first she thought she was having some stomach problems, after visiting a doctor, we decided to get married right away.. yes, "we got pregnant"].
On our wedding night in a "presidential suite" of a fancy hotel nothing happened. She said she was tired. It didn't bother me, I knew that pregnancy would change our sex life [she was about ten weeks along when we got married].
A couple of months after our kid was born I first confronted my wife on the "lack of sex issue" without much success, and so it continued..
Only 1.5 years after we got married we first had sex! Since then I do get it sometimes, but far too rarely by my lowest standards [about 1/mo!!!! That's 12 times per year. Knowing the life expectancy figures for my region I can calculate how many times I have left!!!!!!]. She always has orgasms, but there's no variety, it's always in the dark-under the blanket-missionary or her on top.

During this time I gradually got used to masturbation. I ALWAYS dream of her while masturbating, and if I'm doing it in front of a monitor, I look for models that look like her. I prefer low resolution pictures/videos of girls with similar body proportions/skin color/hair styles as hers so I don't see their faces in detail, so I can imagine it's my wife!
I hate myself for not being able to go without masturbation. Actually, I have tried to abstain many times, but after a period of time I start to have very unpleasant and even painful sensations somewhere in the groin! It can get quite serious. Then I would have a "relapse" - I would masturbate 2-3 times per night for a week or so. Then the cycle repeats itself.. and again I feel miserable, my overall mood/performance drops to baseline etc.
Although I am not religious and I don't think masturabtion is wrong, it doesn't satisfy me. Yes, it relieves the painful symptoms. Yes, it partially clears my head of sexual dreams and illusions that start to hunt me after longer periods of abstinence. BUT, I want INTIMACY WITH MY WIFE. It's not just penetration/ejaculation like many women think of us [men]. I want to touch her skin, smell her hair, feel her getting aroused by me, feel that I'm wanted, that I'm her man. I want to feel like a man. Now I feel like her pathetic/masturbating/horny/dirty/pervert roomate.

I really see no solution to my problem. I tried doing all the chores [cleaning the apartment, shopping, taking care of the kid etc], I tryed various romantic scenarios [either borrowed from books/movies or invented by me] including driving her to another country just to have a romantic dinner by the sea-side. When I ask her what is the problem the answer is -
"Nothing. You are wonderful, witty, handsome.. the man of my dreams. I love you very much and I want to be with you.. It's just that I don't want to have sex so often.."
"..no, I don't want anyone else. It's just that my sex drive is much lower than yours."
Indeed, she is completely satisfied with a once per month "missionary".

That's it. What can I do? I can't even get mad at her. It just sucks! Divorse is not an option because I love my wife and I want her. I tried to cheat on her [with prostitutes], but it was disgusting for me [I had to get dead drunk before I could do it] so I abandoned this idea.

Bottomline ---> Extra-marital sex is not an option for me [unless I fell in love with someone else]. Constant masturbation makes me depressed and lowers my self-esteem..
How long will this last???????

PS I wouldn't be able to say all this if it wasn't anonymous, and I would like to thank everyone on this thread for writing about their experiences. It is really helpful for some of us. Please, pardon my English, it is not my first language..
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Old 5th April 2005, 09:24 AM   #153
Kate
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Dear Lisitsyn,

In your words I here a deep love for your wife and a longing to be one with her, to geive her pleasure and express your love for her. Is it not possible for you to put this into words to her? That you find her deeply attractive and that you want to be physically close to her, but not demanding of her.

Is it possible to describe to her how you feel when you are physically full adn inpain with it? - this is quite common in men that they have a need for physical release, but I'm not sure that women realise that physically men are made differently.

Is it possible to talk to your wife about what she enjoys in love making, what conditions help her Some women need to be very relaxed before they can make love. They may need a slow build up and to be emotionally in the mood. These are things that you can talk about and work on together. Perhaps she can remember what it was that made things so exciting before you got married.

Tiredness can cause problems for women too. See what you can do to help her with the chores and the baby. Consider making love at different times of day, say in the morning when you are both less tired. Make sure you know what really communicates love to her and ensure she knows she is deeply loved and attractive.

Try and avoid the porn as it can have bad effects on your own ability to make love to your wife if you use it too much. Also she may well be very upset if she finds out about it and your visits to prostitutes.

It sounds as if you have some "wooing" to do. Don't be put off, but be gentle and persistent. Love making in marriage can be the best ever and many married couples find they have to work at it, but it's worth it.

Kate
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Old 5th April 2005, 02:27 PM   #154
SelaW
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Im my experience the porn, the masturbation and the fantasizing about other women gets worse the longer you have been married. I do take cold comfort in the fact that even men who are married to beautiful women- models, movie stars etc also use porn and fantasize about other women. I think this link has been posted here before but I will repost it because it is a fascinating explanation of why this is.

http://www.heretical.com/wilson/coolidge.html
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Old 5th April 2005, 04:10 PM   #155
Kate
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

I don't know whther any one has checked out the data in this article and whether the explanations that are offered have anythign of value to say.

Kate
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Old 5th April 2005, 04:53 PM   #156
Hopeful
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisitsyn
I married a wonderful beautiful girl three years ago [I was 21] ... On our wedding night in a "presidential suite" of a fancy hotel nothing happened. She said she was tired. It didn't bother me, I knew that pregnancy would change our sex life [she was about ten weeks along when we got married].
Having intercourse with a pregnant woman in her first trimester is not a good idea. When my wife first got pregnant I had to wait until her second trimester - per doctor's orders. No deep thrusting or bouncing. Just nice an slow; they baby may even like the rocking motion. So, I waited and then we had sex just about every other day until she got too big and entered the risky zone period again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisitsyn
Only 1.5 years after we got married we first had sex! Since then I do get it sometimes, but far too rarely by my lowest standards [about 1/mo!!!! That's 12 times per year. Knowing the life expectancy figures for my region I can calculate how many times I have left!!!!!!]. She always has orgasms, but there's no variety, it's always in the dark-under the blanket-missionary or her on top.
I think all of us married men who lacked sex at one time sat down at the calculator and crunched numbers. At one time, my wife and I were making love 1/mo; several times I waited for three or four months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisitsyn
During this time I gradually got used to masturbation. I ALWAYS dream of her while masturbating, and if I'm doing it in front of a monitor, I look for models that look like her.
You aren't dreaming of her when you are looking at other models in front of a monitor, even those who look like her. Don't be fooling yourself. Your focus isn't really on her, but on getting an orgasm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisitsyn
I hate myself for not being able to go without masturbation. Actually, I have tried to abstain many times, but after a period of time I start to have very unpleasant and even painful sensations somewhere in the groin! It can get quite serious. Then I would have a "relapse"
Been there, done that. I know what you are going through. You end up only being able to relate or view women through your other head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisitsyn
Although I am not religious and I don't think masturabtion is wrong, it doesn't satisfy me. Yes, it relieves the painful symptoms. Yes, it partially clears my head of sexual dreams and illusions that start to hunt me after longer periods of abstinence.
What has your wife to say about non-penetration sex? When I was first married my wife continued to perform oral sex until I asked her to stop several years later. Big mistake, I think. I only removed one way to satisfy me or relieve me without her having to engage in penetration with thoughts of getting pregnant so soon again. Hand jobs were also plentiful. Watching late night television was fun. But those other ways of getting satisfied did come back after surviving the desert of a sexless marriage. See my other thread, "Ladies, I need your help."

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisitsyn
BUT, I want INTIMACY WITH MY WIFE. It's not just penetration/ejaculation like many women think of us [men]. I want to touch her skin, smell her hair, feel her getting aroused by me, feel that I'm wanted, that I'm her man. I want to feel like a man.
THIS is what you should be conveying to your wife. She might interpret all your bla, bla, bla regarding sex as "I want to do it with you. Spread them!" When I began my recovery process from porn and masturbation, I wrote my wife a letter. She was totally surprised to find out that my only desire, besides ocassional sex, was just to simply feel her breasts now and then. My wife has drop dead gorgeous breasts now (she used to be flat chested). God and nature was good to her (and me) during those childrearing days. I too felt the need to 'touch' my wife. It meant something to me. Since then, we've enjoyed moments together where she now allows me to touch her. Last night, after the kiddies went to bed, we spend several hours watching TV with my hand up her shirt. My other arm was around her shoulder with her head lying on it. We spent the time watching TV, but mostly talking to each other. She got what she wanted (getting a few things off her chest about her day) and I got what I wanted (to touch her chest after a long day). What I want to tell you, my friend, is that you've got to stop the way of communicating you have relied on since she got pregnant. Face it, it doesn't work. You have to find a new means to communicate to her that will finally register the importance of what bothers you. Between the bla, bla, blas, might be the same message she doesn't want to hear, at least in that way. When I wrote that long letter, my wife discovered that she didn't have to worry about every bout of touching leading to sex in bed that night. So many arguments. So many slammed doors. So many spiteful and hateful looks that could kill. And all between a husband and wife who claims to be in love. Geez! You might want to be 'satisfied' in one way, but she might want to be 'satisfied' in another way FIRST.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisitsyn
I really see no solution to my problem.
Don't give up. Love eventually conquers. You just have bad strategy and poor ammo. Instead of shooting loads in front of the monitor, start shooting love arrows into your wife's heart.

I highly recommend you purchase a copy of "Men are from Mars, women are from Venus." What an eye-openeer! I let my wife read it first with her putting comments, questions, and highlighting those things that spoke on her behalf. I then read it and wrote mind. We sat down and discovered a lot we never knew about each other. Between these forums and that one book I decided to change myself. My wife took notice and began to make an effort to change ways. She always used to tell me how I affected her, but that book and our lengthy discussions allowed me to finally have my say. We both felt miserable for our past behavior towards each other. I keep making an effort and she keeps opening her blouse. And even though we first begin with petting with no intentions of going anywhere (well maybe manual orgasms), we sometimes end up doing it all the way.

What I now do:

(1) I always ask my wife if I can touch her - just for courtesy in case she isn't in the mood and I don't want to put her in an angry mood.

(2) I tell my wife that I want to cuddle with her and/or touch her with no intentions of it going further than that - when I did take the liberty of going the yard when only given the foot, I got reprimanded.

(3) I told her that we will only have sex when she is in the mood for it - this was risky because it might mean me never getting it, but I was wrong, we've had more sex in the past month than in the past six months prior.

(4) I tell her ahead of time on those 'in between' day that I want to sit next to her, carress her, and kiss her without actually touching her breasts or between her legs - on those days when she isn't in the mood she is more likely to allow me to be physically close to her (on those days I get to rub her calves).

(5) Always tell her that I love her - at least five times a day.

(6) I hold her often without touching her so she can re-gain some trust that I won't always go for the boobs.

(7) I took a long shot and asked her if I can put her bra on in the morning ever day - she surprised me by granting my request and I now do that every morning except Saturday mornings because she goes bra-less on that day - so she allows me just to play with them to make sure they are OK for weekend use.

(8) Hold hands every chance you get - last night my wife and I went to bed holding hands. We fell asleep holding hands above our pillows. Holding hands doesn't have to mean sex. Holding hands is ... holding hands. A lot of touching there AND you can do it in public!

(9) Timing (and spending time) is everything - you need time to yourselves. It doesn't have to be expensive or outlandish. Sometimes you need to get away though. If not for the night or weekend, at least for the evening or afternoon.

(10) There are countless creative ways to "woo" your bride - I don't want to make it sound too mechanical, but you have to pay the fare before you get to ride. Women need to be convinced they are loved before they have sex. Men feel they need sex first before they are convinced they are love. I think the "Mars/Venus" book even mentions that dictum. So, my question to you is: "How are you going to have Mars and Venus meet?" There must be give and take on both sides. It can work. Closeness makes babies too, right?

Lisitsyn, you CAN get close(r) to your wife if you establish some groundrules. I thought I had them, but they became outdated. Having children make rules of sex obsolete very easily. You must have communication and updates on mutual/relational issues. She might be interpreting everything you do as "I want to have sex" while you interpret everything she says as "I don't want to have sex." You gotta get out of that rut. Broken records (or CDs) are to be thrown away. It doesn't sound like you two are having serious or critical issues as of yet, so you have to find a remedy that will only bring yourselves closer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisitsyn
Indeed, she is completely satisfied with a once per month "missionary".
Maybe. Maybe not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisitsyn
How long will this last???????
Dunno. When will YOU begin to change?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisitsyn
PS I wouldn't be able to say all this if it wasn't anonymous, and I would like to thank everyone on this thread for writing about their experiences. It is really helpful for some of us. Please, pardon my English, it is not my first language..
No problem. Keep us posted.

Hopeful

Last edited by Hopeful; 5th April 2005 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 5th April 2005, 05:05 PM   #157
helenrw200
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Hopeful, I would very much like to chat to you if it is at all possible. The compassion you have just shown bowled me over, I was feeling raw and your post was like a salve. Is there anyway I can let you have my personal e-mail address without publishing it on here ?
I would really like to know how you and your wife reached the stage you are at now. I actually left my partner Friday night, I really felt I couldn't take any more, I came back, mainly because my autistic son is here but also because deep daown, I do love my partner and I would so very much like to work things out.
Helen
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Old 5th April 2005, 06:08 PM   #158
lisitsyn
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Thank you Kate for the ecouragement. Today I felt ashamed about my post especially after I read Hopeful's reply -- Hopeful, thank you. Reading your reply I got mad at first.. you understand everything too well. It's scary. Your experience is inspiring, although I don't think it can be blindly followed.. I will try. You've hit the bull's eye. Wife told me that each time I touch, hug or kiss her she thinks that I want sex, and she gets frustrated.. I'm sure you understand what I mean..
I don't know if I will post here again, especially if I fail, because for me it's like turning my soul inside out. I will try beginning now. Thanks everyone.
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Old 5th April 2005, 06:23 PM   #159
Hopeful
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by helenrw200
Hopeful, I would very much like to chat to you if it is at all possible. The compassion you have just shown bowled me over, I was feeling raw and your post was like a salve. Is there anyway I can let you have my personal e-mail address without publishing it on here ?
Dear Helen,

I will have to get back with you on that.

Hopeful
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Old 5th April 2005, 06:38 PM   #160
Hopeful
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisitsyn
Today I felt ashamed about my post especially after I read Hopeful's reply -- Hopeful, thank you.
Lisitsyn,

Don't feel ashamed. You only allowed us to respond to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisitsyn
Reading your reply I got mad at first.. you understand everything too well. It's scary.
As I said before, been there done that. Join the crowd. The first hurdle, my friend, is to get over yourself. If you can't admit who YOU are and where you are, you will never aim in the right direction. If you want to be up front with your wife, you must be up front with YOURself threefold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisitsyn
Your experience is inspiring, although I don't think it can be blindly followed.. I will try.
Of course not. Every case is different. I only share my experience to demonstrate how I sought to figure out my own personal dilemma. You have your own pot of stew. The point I was trying to make was that you should keep digging to what is really on both of your hearts and minds under that "I want sex" or "I don't want sex" placards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisitsyn
You've hit the bull's eye. Wife told me that each time I touch, hug or kiss her she thinks that I want sex, and she gets frustrated.. I'm sure you understand what I mean..
AhA! Please re-read my 10 points in how I tried to reduce my wife's frustration. This was for me, but you will have to come up with your own groundrules that BOTH of you can live by, OK? Without some mutually understood limits, everything can and will be interpreted as "going for the prize." Sit down together and hold her hand. Ask HER what she sees as livable limits. Let her know that touching her IS important to you, that you have needs of being secure that you are still considered a man. No demands. Just agreements on where the boundaries are to be respected. I began respecting my wife's boundaries as soon as we had our last blowout and then rational discussions. I've learned when there are certain times when she doesn't want to be touched. Know what level of touching is acceptable to her. BUT TALK TO HER ABOUT IT. Let her in on the conversation. If she agrees to some limit than she might not feel like you are trespassing it since she help put it up. Also, give her a day off here and there. Continued touching, especially intimate touching, might turn her intimacy dial way off no matter what's cooking. But keep the talking going until you reach a consensus regarding limits. You never know, like me you will probably be "getting it" on your living room floor this week when you were only expecting to carress her calves. Women don't like to be considered just a hunk of flesh. There's a person inside those arms and legs. Surprise!

One big rule you have to get right from the start: NEVER PLAY THE BLAME GAME. It is the most useless, stupid, unhelpful, and silly thing to get mixed up with. If you want to blame anyone, first blame yourself in front of your wife and make sure she can hear you loud and clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisitsyn
I don't know if I will post here again, especially if I fail, because for me it's like turning my soul inside out. I will try beginning now. Thanks everyone.
Recovery is like no, no, no, no, well maybe, NOT, no, no, ... YES!!! Phew!
Then no, no, OK, no, no, OK, no, hold on, no, just a little ... YES!!! Phew!
Then later no, hold me, no ... hold me some more, no, no, ... where are you? Hurry!
Then once per month you must spend at least several days of no pursuit. Its one of those built-in rules, ya know. Time for station identification and fine tuning.
Then its back to no, no, a little to the side, no, no, no, no, some for now, YES!!!

Keep trying. And do buy that Mars/Venus book. The three biggies that my wife kept circling was simple: (1) she didn't want intimacy to always lead to sex (the penetration kind), (2) she wanted respect, and (3) she wanted space and time to herself. And never start or end a discussion without a kiss.

Hopeful

Last edited by Hopeful; 5th April 2005 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 6th April 2005, 08:00 PM   #161
helenrw200
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

[]Dear Helen,

I will have to get back with you on that.

Hopeful


Hopeful

I hope that didn't seem to presumptuous of me, I merely meant that it would be great to get not only your take on this, but also for me to try to understand how your wife dealt with the issue. I am more than happy to continue to listen and learn from you on here, I just thought it would be easier to ask direct questions in e-mail ! ( I seem to have some problems tracking down my posts and replies on here ! ) I've never really had the chance to discuss this with another person before, and certainly not from a male perspective, they are usually quite reluctant to discuss the issue.
Helen
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Old 6th April 2005, 09:32 PM   #162
Alexis
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Hi there

Interesting reading the above comments on porn and masturabation.

My views on it is that it can be damaging if partners are not honest, then trust is put in jepordy and theres alot of questions asking 'Why, whats wrong with me?'. Some people are more sexually highly strung than others.
I am a woman and I do enjoy tasteful porn. Anna summers is doing a roaring trade now women are becoming more and more comfortable with their sexuality and needs. Not so long ago it seemed that Men are allowed to enjoy it and say so and women just lie back and think of england.
Everyone has different needs and desires, different things turn people on, whether its doinga Rodney and dressing up as Gladiator, nurses uniforms or two germans getting it on for the cameras.
Just because people get turned on by different things doesn't mean their feelings are any less for you, as far as Im concerned I would much rather my partner releaved himself to porn and pictures than being unfaithful with another woman.

Alexis
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Old 6th April 2005, 11:34 PM   #163
Hopeful
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexis
Just because people get turned on by different things doesn't mean their feelings are any less for you, as far as Im concerned I would much rather my partner releaved himself to porn and pictures than being unfaithful with another woman.
I would agree with your thesis to a point, especially since I viewed a lot of porn over the years. I still love my wife.

But one of the main arguments made against porn - and I heard it from my wife many times - is how porn and masturbating to it is a type of 'unfaithfulness.' Feelings can get hurt when one's wife learns that her husband is finding 'relief' by gazing at another woman's body. Wives can end up feeling that their own body isn't good enough to satisfy their spouses. Let's face it, most women don't like their own bodies. The cosmetic industry, clothiers, and plastic surgery business is booming. And despite all the enhancements, money spent on hair/nails/clothing on such limited budgets, jewelry, lipstick, etc, ... men still ignore them to get off on other women. I did. But there is always an element of trust and security knowing that one spouse can provide the necessary love and life that will satisfy his/her significant other. Is it really a sign of love to drive home the notion that one's wife is almost worthless in satisfying hubby? The chasm between husband and wife when porn is present can be just as wide as when two split up. I felt that chasm many times. I hated it.

There are women who enjoy porn though. Not denying it.

Hopeful
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Old 7th April 2005, 04:28 AM   #164
SelaW
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Perhaps the types of women and the different sex acts that really turn some men on are not easily replicated in a marriage. They marry for other reasons besides great sex but end up finding themselves in a marriage with a wife they can't get aroused with. IT's not her fault but she ends up paying the price when he turns away from her in favour of porn and masturbation.
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Old 7th April 2005, 01:52 PM   #165
Hopeful
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by SelaW
Perhaps the types of women and the different sex acts that really turn some men on are not easily replicated in a marriage. They marry for other reasons besides great sex but end up finding themselves in a marriage with a wife they can't get aroused with. IT's not her fault but she ends up paying the price when he turns away from her in favour of porn and masturbation.
Good point. Humanity has come up with oodles of sex positions and techniques, and satisfaction is never reached. This is what happens when sex becomes an end in itself. I fell into that trap many times. It can be a very lonely place. It definitely ISN'T her fault. The blame game doesn't work. But we have to recognize situations when bed death occurs, namely when one spouse clams up. Both men and women turn the sex mode off at times, and some do permanently. Many times there is an underlying problem that leads to that.

Hopeful
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