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Old 2nd April 2008, 12:01 AM   #1
Media_Student
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Should Wives submit to their husbands

Hi there, I'm posting this thread, to find out your views concerning this extract taken from the bible, "Wives, submit to your husbands" (Ephesians 5:22).
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Old 2nd April 2008, 08:19 AM   #2
Raymond
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Re: Should Wives submit to their husbands

Hi the submission the bible speaks about is having a submissive attitude to the husband's role or position in the marriage. There is an order. Nothing to do with domination or anything like that. Husband and wife are equal as the bible makes clear, but there is a lot about respecting the husbands role but that doesn't mean a wife carries out things that are wrong if he tells her to. Husbands on the other hand are asked to major on loving their wives, which is a lifetimes work in my view. A christian woman would understand it more than I do as they have to work it through. My wife attempts to be subject to me which opens the way for me to take my responsibility as head of the house. Anyone who tries to take this truth to far goes into error.

Raymond
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Old 2nd April 2008, 04:01 PM   #3
Susan Strict
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Re: Should Wives submit to their husbands

Hi Media_Student!!

If you read the rest of this particular section from Ephesians, you should see that it concerns leading a life together by the values given by God. The "submission" of the wife is, as the rest of it makes quite clear, a willingness to be led towards God and stresses that it is the man's responsibility to try to do this. I read it, taken as a whole, to be more of a command to the man to take the lead in the right direction rather than an order to a woman to do as she's told - and in that respect I think the line you quote has been very much taken badly out of context many times. The text that follows also stresses the importance of love between wife and husband in a way that is undoubtedly equal and caring.

The two lines I think are the most important are 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her;
and 5:33 ..let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
Quite simply, it's a command to husbands to make sure they are worthy of their wife's respect - not a command to wives to respect the husband regardless of his behaviour.
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Old 2nd April 2008, 08:51 PM   #4
Raymond
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Re: Should Wives submit to their husbands

I agree with the second paragraph about loving ones wife which is terribly important. It takes it beyond my feelings but as I have said before right choices produce the right feelings in the long run.

As for wives to submit unto their husbands this is because the husband is the head of the wife v 23. It is just respecting his position. It really doesn't depend on the husband being worthy. It is not a thing earned. It is addressed to christians. I don't think this means the wife doing evil if the husband ask it, as she would be dishonouring God.

I'm no expert as it is addressed to woman. My wife takes it seriously and I benefit. It would be hard if I wasn't worthy of respect. It is the same as government. I may think they are awful but I still owe them respect as all authority is from God.

Raymond
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Old 2nd April 2008, 09:12 PM   #5
Alice Alice
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Re: Should Wives submit to their husbands

To earn respect one must give respect.
to be humble is part of it..i'm not good at where to find my information in the Bible but i know it the few that i do i have taken it into my heart.

When Jesus was washing the feet of his apostles he insisted he wanted to do this but his apostles felt embarrassed at first later they realized he was setting an example to how important it was to be humble.

i believe both husband and wife have different rolls in a relationship but using a humble standing is best, in order to make a relationship bloom
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Old 2nd April 2008, 09:32 PM   #6
Susan Strict
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Re: Should Wives submit to their husbands

Raymond, that's a wonderful phrase: "Right choices produce the right feelings".

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Old 3rd April 2008, 07:59 AM   #7
Alice Alice
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Re: Should Wives submit to their husbands

Raymond hope you are good and i always look forward to your thoughts
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Old 3rd April 2008, 08:42 PM   #8
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Re: Should Wives submit to their husbands

Thanks for all your responses, I am clear of what the bible teaches, and I am in agreement that the husband and wife are in equal partnership as the bible declares that they, being twain become one flesh when they're joint together in marriage.

The text found in the book of Ephesians chapter 5 reads, (22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord), that doesn't mean become a slave but she is to honour and respect her husband and there should be constant communication between the two (as communication is the key to a healthy relationship).

Her husband in return is commanded this (25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it). The Husband is to show love unto his wife putting his wife's needs before his own and being ready to even die for his wife.

For my dissertation assignment, I just wanted to get other peoples views of what this scripture means to them in modern times, as we live in a time where the mojority of people are out for themselves and marriages are mostly portrayed as husbands and wives no longer being one flesh but living separate selfish lives, out to satisfy their own desires without a thought of how their decisions affects the rest of the family and no longer adhering to these commandments, which has caused statically a rise in the number of failed marriages.

Of course this does not apply to all modern marriages, those who apply the basic principles concerning the role of a husband and wife in marriage given by God (the Author of marriage), will have prosperous loving and lasting marriages.
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Old 3rd April 2008, 09:07 PM   #9
Raymond
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Re: Should Wives submit to their husbands

I agree with everything you said MS. It is a very high standard for husbands that is impossible without God's strength, but thank God His strength does enable. I have found it a growing thing rather than an immediate thing and it didn't start in earnest until the honeymoon love feeling wore off as great as that was, say after two years. I still have a long way to go but I am not where I used to be thank God. Funny thing is everything comes back to you with interest. If you sow love that's what you reap. I don't "feel" I love you anymore has no place when your will is behind it as well.

Raymond

Last edited by Raymond; 3rd April 2008 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 19th September 2008, 01:30 PM   #10
Akinbowale
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Re: Should Wives submit to their husbands

SOLUTIONS TO MARITAL CONFLICTS AND THORNY ISSUES
Malachi 2:14-16; proverb 5:18,19; Mark 10:27
It is God’s plan that every marriage be enjoyable union. He wants it to be good and godly, enduring and gracious. But most marriages are not so. Divorce is common and single parenthood is becoming the order of the day. To many, a marriage is a necessary evil. To others, it should be avoided altogether. Conflict and crises-ridden marriages have sent many to untimely death, the physician’s bed and the psychiatrist’s home. Divorce is disastrous. Yet to keep a marriage full of sparks and thorns is hell on earth. The good news, however, is that God who founded the marriage institution can heal every sick marriage, resolve all conflicts and uproot every thorn planted there.
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Old 17th November 2008, 05:43 PM   #11
Jenny Wilson
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Re: Should Wives submit to their husbands

Hi

I have just discovered this thread, a subject dear to my heart as I believe that one of the root causes of the increase in marital breakdown these days not just in the church but in our community as a whole is that we have forgotten the importance of the Ephesians 5 passage, and it has become un PC to use the word obey in the marriage service (though I know that this is not exactly the same as submit !)
I also believe that it is possible to practice submission (which does not mean being a doormat) in modern Britain. Fortunately I have a great husband but one of the things we discussed before we married (nearly 17 years ago now) was that I am always likely to have a greater earning power than he does. Despite that we included the word obey in our marriage service and we stick by the principle of my submitting and him loving. Of course we don't always get it right but it for him loving me means that we communicate and discuss and pray through issues and on the fairly rare occassions where we continue to differ I will submit to his final decision.
I believe, as Christians until we start to look at these thorny issues again then marital breakdown will continue to increase in our churches
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Old 17th November 2008, 06:56 PM   #12
Raymond
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Re: Should Wives submit to their husbands

I leave the submission to my wife Jenny. It's addressed to her not me. Husbands love your wives is addressed to me. She does try to submit but I would say that it is only needed at certain junctures not constantly. We are pretty equal unless a real conflict comes up. If we can't move forward by discussion and I am convinced of the rightness of something then she will submit at that point in the end. She will not submit if I am not even sure myself of something. There would be no point. There is plenty or room for differences of opinion but when a decision has to be made, having talked everything through and still no agreement, then she will submit. If she has a better idea obviously I would go with what she thinks, so there is plenty of room for good ideas.

It is nothing to do with domination or obey me or else as some sites try to suggest. It settles things and does bring order when it happens.

Raymond
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Old 28th November 2008, 08:46 PM   #13
Ageing Grace
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Re: Should Wives submit to their husbands

Raymond, I promise to stop "spamming" the forum after this! (My addictive tendencies showing up again )

I just wanted to reinforce a few of your excellent points, which speak of a supremely healthy marriage whether or not Christianity is a factor:-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
.... which opens the way for me to take my responsibility as head of the house. Anyone who tries to take this truth too far goes into error.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
.... If she has a better idea obviously I would go with what she thinks, so there is plenty of room for good ideas.

It is nothing to do with domination
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
[Respect] is not a thing earned.
... in other words, mutual respect is essential (and a natural right); each person is serious about their responsibilities to one another ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I don't ... love you anymore has no place when your will is behind it as well.
... being dominated by your feelings is for children; adult love is a decision as well as an emotion ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Funny thing is everything comes back to you with interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
right choices produce the right feelings in the long run
... every action produces results; the wiser your actions, the better the results.

Your profile doesn't tell anything about you, but I hope you work as some kind of counsellor. Your balanced insight into human dilemmas is a too-rare gift.

AG
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Old 29th November 2008, 11:20 PM   #14
Raymond
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Re: Should Wives submit to their husbands

I am not a counselor Grace. Just a normal fellow. Your footnotes betray a wisdom that you also have.

Really it's just working through the scripture in a practical way. At the start my first scripture was love your enemies. I applied this to my wife when she was giving me hell. Underneath the prickly exterior was a resorvoir of love that I would have missed if I had given like for like. I have come to appreciate and love her more and more and when the feelings aren't there, which isn't very often, I love her anyway because I will to do it.

Raymond
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