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Old 19th April 2013, 09:22 AM   #151
freddie
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

OK, we have covered the subjects of cultural and age differences, can we drop the subject now? I am trying to deal with the matter starting from now, not 10 years ago. It is pointless for people to act as Agony Aunts giving me advice on whether I should have got involved with my future wife 10 years ago. As the song says: "I don't regret a single day believe me..." I am talking about the relationship between two 'souls' not two people where one is blonde and the other is dark.

Last edited by freddie; 19th April 2013 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 19th April 2013, 09:28 AM   #152
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

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Originally Posted by Forever View Post
I am happy to hear that you are indeed implementing the list. Since she is having her monthly now, that means in two weeks things can easily take a change for the worse...so watch those cycles and hunker down. Be very careful regarding your responses to anything she says...take the time to think before you speak.

You can show concern for her well being...good grief, you would do that for anyone regardless right? There is nothing on the list that prohibits kindness or concern for a person...just do not ask anything of her...nor talk about the relationship or what she has done/or is doing. You should do very well if you realize that it has an end goal of keeping the atmosphere peaceful and stable.
When I talk about showing 'personal' concern for her I am referring to breaking one of 180 deg rules: 'do not approach her in a personal way' although I am not even sure if I am working on 180 deg rule anymore, I guess this rule best applies to people who do not show signs of personality disorders so maybe those who do need to be treated differently.

And i would not look at 'anyone's' used panty pads and then talk about it to them.
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Old 19th April 2013, 09:32 AM   #153
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

Forever,

I repeat, sometimes I have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe there are people who do, but I have never heard of any couples who divorce and stay living together. If they were to stay living together as a couple, what would be the point of divorcing. If they stay together as flatmates, even the one who has fallen out of love the most with the other person, would be tormented by the other one bringing people to the house to have sex with them and with the children in the house. Absurd.
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Old 19th April 2013, 09:53 AM   #154
freddie
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

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Understood...and now that she HAS filed for divorce, she may become even MORE brazen regarding that issue. But as long as you choose to try and remain in the relationship...whether as being married or even divorced and still living together, you will be exposed to her affairs...meaning experiencing the rage (both yours and hers) and fallout for any attempts to get her to put a stop to them.
You need to see another aspect of this. With this OM, I am working for my daughter now mostly (and partly for me) and for my wife, believe it or not. My elder daughter is getting badly hurt by what I said about her mother saying she broke up with him and then she started talking to him with my daughter knowing. She fears her mother going to him and even more being taken away from me and taken to him. On this I am not going to relent, whether my wife has a personality disorder or not.

The reason for my daughter's present explosions of rage, calling her mother an idiot, saying that she does not care a bugger about her and that all she wants her to do is to get out of the house is because she feels as betrayed as me. She keeps saying her mother only loves and cares about the bugger and has nothing for her. I do not even ask my daughter, she just comes and tells me. The other day my wife was alone in the house with my daughters, she told the 9 year old she was going shopping and asked her to come to help carry the bags (not to accompany her). My daughter said she did not want to go just to carry her bags, then my wife said in that case you stay alone in the house. My daughter said: what if something happens here and to me? My wife said: I do not even care. Later on my daughter said to me: my mother does not even care if I burn to death.

I am saying I am trying to make sure that the wife and the OM do not renew their relationship because in her present 'narcissitic' or Fog or BPD or whatever state of mind my wife is totally oblivious to the fact that she is about to lose her daughter forever. I have said before that my wife does not have a real bond with her daughter and that she has to start working on it now or her relationship with her is finished. Then we will both have an enormous problem teenager, having sex at 14, drinking, taking drugs, etc. and I am not going to alllow that to happen.

Do you see the similarity? My wife is in the belief that she can restore or start a true mother-daughter relationship with my elder daughter, when she let it go wrong in the past 9 years (she already has the same problem with the 4 year old); then she thinks I cannot do the same withe her (the wife) after I let it go wrong in the past 9 years. I say that by both of us trying hard she can develop a true relationship with my daughters, with my help, and that we can rekindle our married relationship with both of us working on it. Who is right?

You are very mistaken if you think I will tell you where my wife is from. Why do you think I did not say it from the beginning? because then people will put her in the box where it best suits them and feel comfortable with. I know I have had this done to my wife and myself many a time an believe me, it is the most annoying thing in the world. You have also shown your pre-conceptions about people's nationalities and you want to go straight in that direction, with my wife, again. I have asked, in the message above, to drop the subject.

Last edited by freddie; 19th April 2013 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 19th April 2013, 10:32 AM   #155
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

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OK, we have covered the subjects of cultural and age differences, can we drop the subject now? I am trying to deal with the matter starting from now, not 10 years ago. I am talking about the relationship between two 'souls' not two people where one is blonde and the other is dark.
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Old 19th April 2013, 10:43 AM   #156
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

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Originally Posted by freddie View Post
You need to see another aspect of this. With this OM, I am working for my daughter now mostly (and partly for me) and for my wife, believe it or not. My elder daughter is getting badly hurt by what I said about her mother saying she broke up with him and then she started talking to him with my daughter knowing. She fears her mother going to him and even more being taken away from me and taken to him. On this I am not going to relent, whether my wife has a personality disorder or not.

The reason for my daughter's present explosions of rage, calling her mother an idiot, saying that she does not care a bugger about her and that all she wants her to do is to get out of the house is because she feels as betrayed as me. She keeps saying her mother only loves and cares about the bugger and has nothing for her. I do not even ask my daughter, she just comes and tells me. The other day my wife was alone in the house with my daughters, she told the 9 year old she was going shopping and asked her to come to help carry the bags (not to accompany her). My daughter said she did not want to go just to carry her bags, then my wife said in that case you stay alone in the house. My daughter said: what if something happens here and to me? My wife said: I do not even care. Later on my daughter said to me: my mother does not even care if I burn to death.

I am saying I am trying to make sure that the wife and the OM do not renew their relationship because in her present 'narcissitic' or Fog or BPD or whatever state of mind my wife is totally oblivious to the fact that she is about to lose her daughter forever. I have said before that my wife does not have a real bond with her daughter and that she has to start working on it now or her relationship with her is finished. Then we will both have an enormous problem teenager, having sex at 14, drinking, taking drugs, etc. and I am not going to alllow that to happen.

Do you see the similarity? My wife is in the belief that she can restore or start a true mother-daughter relationship with my elder daughter, when she let it go wrong in the past 9 years (she already has the same problem with the 4 year old); then she thinks I cannot do the same withe her (the wife) after I let it go wrong in the past 9 years. I say that by both of us trying hard she can develop a true relationship with my daughters, with my help, and that we can rekindle our married relationship with both of us working on it. Who is right?

You are very mistaken if you think I will tell you where my wife is from. Why do you think I did not say it from the beginning? because then people will put her in the box where it best suits them and feel comfortable with. I know I have had this done to my wife and myself many a time an believe me, it is the most annoying thing in the world. You have also shown your pre-conceptions about people's nationalities and you want to go straight in that direction, with my wife, again. I have asked, in the message above, to drop the subject.
You have some vey strange ideas. Neither forever or I are bothered about people marrying those from other counrtries, just that often its makes a marriage far more challanging and difficult(depending on where they are from), especially if you didnt get to know them well to start with(which can be the case if you go looking elsewhere of course).

I am British, my husband is Australian, my brothers long term girlfriend is German, my daughters husband is Welsh, so what??? I am not ashamed to say where they come from, so goodness knows why you are.
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Old 19th April 2013, 12:24 PM   #157
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

Chosen,
You have got your own agenda but, after all, this is my thread and I can direct it in the direction of the area of advice and feed-back I want to cover. See my original thread title again:
How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

Feel free to open another thread to discuss marriage between people of different races, colours, nationalities, age, etc. It will be interesting.

My wife is foreign and the OM is English by birth. My wife started the relationship by constantly lying to him, his parents, brothers and friends about her status, myself and other things. She did not lie to me in the first years of our marriage, let alone during our courtship. it would help me if you went and told them that their relationship is doomed as they are of different backgrounds and he does not really know my wife's true self.
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Old 19th April 2013, 01:16 PM   #158
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

Forever and Chosen,

Get it in your head, a marriage between two foreigners in a third country is a good thing. They are in a position to truly identify with the status of the other one as an 'alien'. Furthermore, in this case where I have been a foreigner far longer than her allows me to support her when I have been through all the things she is going through. I did this on purpose, I did not marry a British woman, who would also be of a different race, as she would never be able to see life as a foreigner through my eyes. If my wife goes with the English guy, she will feel isolated to add to her personality problems. She will get stupid comments from his English friends and relatives like "Are women not allowed to vote in your country?". I know I have heard this sh1t and it is particularly annoying when you have a British passport. Most people never fully adapt to living in another country. Added to this, as I said it above, I have had a keen interest on everything about her country since I was a teenager. So do not tell me that I knew nothing about her background. The best thing about a marriage like this, is that the relationship is enriched by both learning about each other's cultures. When my wife met me, the only thing she knew about my country of origin was that it was somewhere far away (the geography lessons in her country's schools are not that good ). But then she was looking at the man, not his country. Throughout the years, she learned to cook food from my country, visited it, met my relatives there, listened to its music, etc. She once told a friend that she was excited about the combination of our races in our children. She is a very white blonde and our children do not look anything like her. I often gave her moral support, for instanced when she felt that she was not getting jobs due to her foreign University degree, her accent, her nationality, etc. "I know how it feels, I have been there, do not worry and don't give up" I would say.

The fact that my wife and I did not have a nationality in common was one of the things that we did have in common. It gave us a lot to talk about. Many conversations included the phrase: "Well in my country they do it like this....."

Saying that a marriage between people of different countries often makes it far more challenging and difficult is the same as saying that a neighbourhood where Pakistanis and white English live is bound to have problems.

I am not letting you off on your comments about the problems of marriages between people of different countries.
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Old 19th April 2013, 02:37 PM   #159
Forever
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

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When I talk about showing 'personal' concern for her I am referring to breaking one of 180 deg rules: 'do not approach her in a personal way' although I am not even sure if I am working on 180 deg rule anymore, I guess this rule best applies to people who do not show signs of personality disorders so maybe those who do need to be treated differently.

And i would not look at 'anyone's' used panty pads and then talk about it to them.

I did not say "not to approach her in any personal way". I said not to ask anything FROM her ie do not make demands or requests FROM her. Showing concern is a good thing provided that it is not done as gaining for your own interests or to manipulate.

No, you would not be looking at someone else's panty pads...I am not talking about someone else here...I am talking about your wife and treating her with the "type" of concern that you would treat another human being if they appeared to be in some distress.

What you did was what any good husband would do...showing some concern for a wife who may not be feeling well.

Please read and implement the list for 30 days to prove to yourself that you can establish peace in the household...like I said, it does not matter if she is mentally ill, or just plain selfish...it works.
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Old 19th April 2013, 03:30 PM   #160
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

Freddie,

We ask a lot of questions because we do not know you, much less your wife. You getting hostile over questions asked or over opinions made will only result in no one wanting to converse with you. We are not your personal friends who ought to know you better and refrain from making simple observations or comments...because we do not know what pushes your buttons.

So yes, let's drop the foreign marriage and age differences...that was simply an avenue to explore to see if there might be something else that may play into the problems in the marriage....I for one, do not care where she or you are from, only in as much as there might have been some cultural differences that could play into part of the problem. Ditto with the ages.

Let's get on with it.

I said that I thought you would want your wife to stay with you regardless of her filing for divorce. You seem to think that it is an absurd idea. Fair enough, that is your opinion and your observation in what usually happens in relationships around you.

I do not see that as necessary in your situation, until and unless she DOES start bringing lover's home. You know, and I know that she would NOT. If your wife is mentally ill...or going through another type of crisis, staying in the same household would go a long way to see if you could calm her down to get to the bottom of what is ailing her. So allowing her to stay and making it pleasant to do so is the way forward. This also insures that you have full access to the girls and can better watch out for their well being.

This is just one of the reasons that you should not talk about the divorce if at all possible. Just go about your business as usual and see where your wife takes this all on her own.

When you don't understand something I said, please take the time to re-read it...or ask for clarity w/o the hostility and defensiveness.

Did you have your Court date? If so, what happened?

Last edited by Forever; 19th April 2013 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 19th April 2013, 04:23 PM   #161
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

My wife returned safely from her holiday with the children but there was no change in attitude from her - we do not talk at all; the holiday was of no use (to me and my children), she is still in the Fog. My daughter is distressed and her attitude has got worse. She says she hates her "stupid mother" and that she wishes she would go away. Also, my wife's relationship with her children did not improve at all during the holiday. She just cannot buy the children with holidays, outings and presents the way she was bought herself.

As for the court hearing, I won but I lost or vice versa. My wife did not stop it and we went to court to throw sh1t at each other. I was distressed at saying those things about my wife to defend myself. The judge did not care to hear arguments about who hit who or who did what to whom. He had already decided to separate us and guess who goes in this situation, no matter how badly the wife is behaving: the man of course. Now I have until mid June to move out and I will be able to stay at the house, with the children for half of the day (while the wife is at work). But I will not be able to watch what she does to them in the evening. Apart from the money problems, this may be OK to make the wife realise that she needs me (even to change a light bulb) but without me being separated from my children. I had already suggested to the wife (in January) that we could do a trial separation and I could move to a house we own and are refurbishing in another town and that I could come back to visit the kids during the week-end. But she told me that this would only throw her deeper in the relationship with the bugger and that she needed me to look after the children when she got her job!

My daughter told me that she wished she had been able to give evidence in court, against my wife, so as to get her kicked out of the house.
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Old 19th April 2013, 04:53 PM   #162
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

Get your eldest daughter a cell phone and teach her how to use it. You can program it for autodial with two numbers in it...one to you, and the other to the police. That way if she is in a panic, she does not have to try and remember the numbers.

Tell her to keep it on the charger and well hidden, with it set on "silent" mode so her mother does not hear it. Maybe you could keep it in a dresser drawer...cutting out a small hole in the back of a drawer for the wire, and plugged in behind the dresser. Tell her it is for emergencies only...when her mother is going on a rage.

Are you going to be moving to the house in a different town...the one you are renovating? How far away is that in minutes from the one you are now living in?

Do you have any good neighbors who would be willing to watch out for your daughters? If there is a next door neighbor, you could ask them to put a two way monitor in the girls room so they could hear what is going on in the event that their mother rages at them and they could suddenly call the house or go over to intervene. If this is a possibility, make sure the monitor is hidden under the bed or somewhere out of sight...there are great monitors out there now days...with distances that would include a next door neighbor's house.
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Old 19th April 2013, 05:14 PM   #163
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

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Get your eldest daughter a cell phone and teach her how to use it. You can program it for autodial with two numbers in it...one to you, and the other to the police. That way if she is in a panic, she does not have to try and remember the numbers.

Tell her to keep it on the charger and well hidden, with it set on "silent" mode so her mother does not hear it. Maybe you could keep it in a dresser drawer...cutting out a small hole in the back of a drawer for the wire, and plugged in behind the dresser. Tell her it is for emergencies only...when her mother is going on a rage.

Are you going to be moving to the house in a different town...the one you are renovating? How far away is that in minutes from the one you are now living in?

Do you have any good neighbors who would be willing to watch out for your daughters? If there is a next door neighbor, you could ask them to put a two way monitor in the girls room so they could hear what is going on in the event that their mother rages at them and they could suddenly call the house or go over to intervene. If this is a possibility, make sure the monitor is hidden under the bed or somewhere out of sight...there are great monitors out there now days...with distances that would include a next door neighbor's house.
I cannot live in the house in the other county. I have to live virtually next door as I have to return to the house at 7:30 AM to get the girls ready for school and stay or return to the house at 6PM when the wife comes back from work. I think they will normally spend the day at my home and then they will be going back to the other house to get yelled at and/or ignored at by stressed mother every evening. My elder daughter says she wants to come and live with me but the court may not like that.
I always find the positive side of things. This way I will get the children used to my own territory and it may help me in a court battle, especially after the girls have been subjected to their mother's moods, for a few months, without me there.

Last edited by freddie; 19th April 2013 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 19th April 2013, 05:21 PM   #164
freddie
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

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I did not say "not to approach her in any personal way". I said not to ask anything FROM her ie do not make demands or requests FROM her. Showing concern is a good thing provided that it is not done as gaining for your own interests or to manipulate.

No, you would not be looking at someone else's panty pads...I am not talking about someone else here...I am talking about your wife and treating her with the "type" of concern that you would treat another human being if they appeared to be in some distress.

What you did was what any good husband would do...showing some concern for a wife who may not be feeling well.

Please read and implement the list for 30 days to prove to yourself that you can establish peace in the household...like I said, it does not matter if she is mentally ill, or just plain selfish...it works.
I spoke to people in another forum., who recommended the 180 deg rule when she was deep in the fog with the bugger. But that was before I started thinking she may have a personality disorder. I did not say you meant ignore her altogether. This is why I say I may be migrating from the 180 rule to dealing with a person with a personality problem.

Next time I will mark sarcastic before comments like my not looking at other people's panty pads.
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Old 19th April 2013, 05:43 PM   #165
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Re: How to see our married life through my wife's eyes

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I cannot live in the house in the other county. I have to live virtually next door as I have to return to the house at 7:30 AM to get the girls ready for school and stay or return to the house at 6PM when the wife comes back from work. I think they will normally spend the day at my home and then they will be going back to the other house to get yelled at and/or ignored at by stressed mother every evening. My elder daughter says she wants to come and live with me but the court may not like that.
I always find the positive side of things. This way I will get the children used to my own territory and it may help me in a court battle, especially after the girls have been subjected to their mother's moods, for a few months, without me there.
Good. Find a place...even a room that is the closest possible to the house...and install a monitor in the girls rooms...maybe on top of a closet shelf behind something. Even a recording device...one of those itsy bitsy ones that has a lot of recording time. You can listen to it daily and reset it each night before you leave. Giving your eldest daughter a cell phone will make her feel more confident and cared for...as well as giving her an avenue to call for help that her mother wont be aware of.

If your eldest daughter lives with you...what will be in place to watch out for the youngest?
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