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Old 20th March 2009, 03:02 PM   #46
andrewbee
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

I am not expecting perfection. I know it would take a while to find the right person, and then there would be a long period of adjustment, as we deal with each other's imperfections. I also know I will need to do several more years of work on myself in order to avoid making the same mistakes again, and get myself in a position to really love somebody. I am doing this work anyway, regardless of the outcome of the marriage, because I want to be a better human being.

I might not have loved her completely, but she also lacks the capacity to receive love (to some extent). This is born out of having a father who was cold and uncaring, and who she still has a lot of unresolved feelings towards. Therefore, she has not been able to take on board what I have been able to give her - that comes across in our arguments, in which she accuses me of never having loved her, which is not true.

She also has Asperger's syndrome, which makes it so she sees things in black and white (you NEVER .... you ALWAYS .... preceding whatever negative thing she is about to say). So, she still after all these years sees me as her dad, and she is unable to connect on a sexual level due to the Aspergers. And no, we didn't know about this when we got married. She has only known for a couple of years that she had it. That has been one of the hardest things for me to deal with, as I have a healthy sex drive and expected a lot more sexually than she was able to give.

You do have some valid points, but I wanted to point out that there is more to the story than I mentioned in my first post. Your post did hit home though, and has given me much food for thought.
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Old 20th March 2009, 05:39 PM   #47
Raymond
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

I see your problem andrew. You have two lovely children and a wife from an abusive, neglectful, childhood. Considering your background I would have thought you would be one of the few who would understand her wounds from the past and would be in prime position for her to be healed through the acceptance and love you could offer. She must feel your holding back from the commitment which should be there in marriage.

The words you never, you always are not confined to Aspergers Syndrome people. These are common mistakes that a lot of married people make.

Sometimes the label Aspergers Syndrome can be a mental block for people. Most of these people have a double dose of a certain temperment more than made up for by their intellectual powers and attention to detail.

Somehow she is in the judgment dock awaiting sentence from you, a sentence that would involve you deserting your marriage and the best for the children with the extra wounds she will have for life probably.

I would be careful not to put everything down to her background and AS. That sounds very cold to me. I think if you fully commit to her and find the ways to love her you would get the full benefit in your life.

My advice is to love and look after the wife you have and work out other ways to pursue the cure to the frustrations you seem to have.

Raymond
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Old 20th March 2009, 06:39 PM   #48
andrewbee
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

Yeah .... I just wish there were ways to cure those frustrations that didn't involve destroying the relationship!

Thanks
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Old 20th March 2009, 06:52 PM   #49
Raymond
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

There are a few marriage books on this link about the subject Andrew.
http://www.jkp.com/catalogue/index.php/cat/autism

You have nothing to lose in giving it a go. What would be better on your conscience?

Raymond
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Old 23rd March 2009, 11:59 AM   #50
dawn33
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

hi squeeky
i don't want to tell you what to do or say to your wife
as a wife myself my hubby is (cheating or something going of in his live) that all we do is argue and thats no good for my kids and your kids will grow up thinking it's ok to stay in a love less marriage
my hubby says the words " i love you " before he goes to work but they are just words with no feelings
all i can say is follow your heart and be true to yourself
good luck
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Old 23rd March 2009, 01:01 PM   #51
Raymond
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

It doesn't have to be a loveless marriage Dawn. It is within Andrews power to bring love to the marriage. It is a choice as well as a feeling. The feelings can take a hit sometimes but the choosing to love is what keeps things alive until the feelings follow again.

Raymond
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Old 23rd March 2009, 02:56 PM   #52
Ageing Grace
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

I dunno, Ray. I've just copied this from the book site you recommended above:

"The Asperger Couple's Workbook
Practical Advice and Activities for Couples and Counsellors Maxine Aston
Asperger Syndrome (AS) can affect some of the fundamental ingredients required to make a relationship work, such as emotional empathy and communication."

I've discussed Asperger's in some other threads. Whilst I know of many couples where one partner is Asperger's, and the other can live with that, I'm acutely aware that I could not live with it.

For me, emotional empathy & communication are the foundation stones of a relationship. A partner whose brain is simply not wired to understand those functions - even if they learned to go through the motions - would be a source of deep unhappiness for me. If you were to ask your wife how she feels about something, Raymond, and her only true reply was always - and could only be - "I have no feelings about it", would you be so sure of your views?

Andrew says he was emotionally confused when he married. Perhaps he made a wrong choice and has only now gained enough self-knowledge (and courage) to recognise that. I don't know for sure.

I agree with you that love is an action. Very often, a partner's complaints are selfish. Very often, they can fix their perceived marriage problems with a change of attitude. But not always.

Sometimes you sail exceedingly close to the "You made your bed, now you must lie in it" school of thought. That sentiment is neither tolerant or kind, nor does it embody Christian values. In some cases it's downright dangerous. Dawn's husband, as you know from her own thread, is horribly abusive and has destroyed her confidence. Do you really believe "right actions" will repair the disaster she calls her marriage?

In fact - I'm sure you don't, Raymond. I fail to grasp why you keep repeating the same advice, even though you have the intelligence & sensitivity to understand the variations within relationships described in these forums.

@ Andrew - What led to your wife's diagnosis a few years ago? Did she seek it herself, or was it prompted by you? It must be awful for you that she "sees you as her Dad" but, as far as I'm aware, this isn't connected with Asperger's. Is she in therapy for the effects of her childhood experiences? Perhaps the two of you are on a parallel course, just at different stages right now ....

What do you think?

AG
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Old 23rd March 2009, 06:54 PM   #53
Raymond
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

Grace you are misquoting me I feel. In Dawns case I do believe if her husband decided to love her with all that entails a big change would be made. Presumably he had originally made a bed of love and a commitment. The spirit of what I am saying is not the way you are putting it across at all.

I know you disagree with a lot of what I say and I know I have a different view of marriage from what you have, but this is a forum. If you feel so strongly against the advice I am giving I would reccommend you speak to David who runs this site with his wife Liz and are concerned to preserve marriages if possible. I do not feel that I am that way out from the advice that is given on this site where the emphasis is for working on marriages and not to cut and run without trying. Nobody has to do what I say and people are also free to divorce if they want.

You have picked out a negative phrase from the Aspergers marriage advice. Within that advice is a lot of positive things that one could do to improve such a marriage. We are talking about people who have romanced and married Aspergers people and knew what they were getting into. I think if Andrew read the advice he may stand a better chance of making it work and preserving his marriage and wellbeing of his wife and children. It is really up to him. We all have freewill.

Raymond
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Old 23rd March 2009, 09:09 PM   #54
Ageing Grace
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

We agree about half of the time, I'd guess. I'm not anti-marriage and I do the most I can to encourage whatever changes may help a forum member to start healing their relationship.

I can't help feeling that a husband who urges his wife to kill herself is something of a lost cause on the "loving actions" front.

The quote I copied is the book's own advertisement, from the site you yourself recommended. I reproduced it as written, therefore it is not out of context. Autism-spectrum disorders can present enormous difficulties where relationships are concerned; that's why there are lots of books about it. Pretending it's nothing more than a minor hiccup will not alter that fact.

AG

Last edited by Ageing Grace; 23rd March 2009 at 09:17 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 6th April 2009, 05:44 PM   #55
andrewbee
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

Hi,

It's been a few weeks since I posted, and I just caught up on the discussion.

I have had a bit of time to think about things. I have also worked through some of my own mother-related issues that make being with her so difficult sometimes.

As somebody stated above, "seeing me as her dad" and Aspergers are indeed two separate problems. Since her dad was an absuive, manipulative, controlling A-hole, this issue OR the Aspergers would be enough on their own to bring a marriage down.

She has done a lot of growing, and is self-aware enough to know the root causes of a lot of her issues. However, she hasn't done enough work, at a deep enough level, to overcome them. (This is not unique - most people with deep emotional wounds don't). I have no doubt that she loves me, but when she says things like "I feel like you've never loved me", "you just want someone to cook and clean", and is generally blind to all the love and domestic support (plus being the only wage earner) that I do bring to the marriage, it gets old.

And then there's the times when her Aspergers kicks in. Her brain neurons fire uncontrollably, flooding her brain with electrical impulses, and she yells and screams, either at me or the kids. Her unresolved issues mix with her neurological deficits to create an unholy witches' brew of a situation, that neither she or I can control. It's not that often that it gets REALLY bad like that, but it does happen.

Her ASD also creates a lot of conflict over sex. She wants it one way only, and over with as soon as possible. I would like someone who is a little more capable sexually. I have no plans to go out and cheat on her though.

Despite all the above, I do love her, and am not planning to leave her. It's just difficult sometimes though.

-Andrew
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Old 8th May 2009, 12:03 AM   #56
torn
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

Hi squeeky,

The beginning of your story is amazingly similar to mine. Im 35 years old and have been married for two years now, but ever since I met my wife two and a half years ago, I have been basically avoiding hurting her feelings.
I was never able to say the words Im not in love with you and never was and the one time I did try to confess had somehow led to our marriage (believe it or not).
We still dont have children though she is eager to get pregnant. She is over the heels in love with me and is blind to any signs that are so evident in our day2day.
I do respect her and love her (but sadly not romantically). What is more problematic is that Im not attracted to her physically (even her caressing feels uncomfortable to me).
She is constantly complaining about the frequency of sex (which is not high) though Im a considerate lover in the times we do.
As I said, I love her (not romantically) but leaving her would hurt her so and Im torn just contemplating that.
I try to convince myself that I will learn to love her, I even believe I Ill be able to generate a sexual attraction (for her), but what I cant see happening is romance, I cant see me growing real romantic feelings for her and this saddens me so
I should also mention that there is an intellectual difference between us which is not contributing to the situation, though it is the kind that is easily breached when people are in love.

So even if you decide to stick it, how do you deal with the lack of physical attraction?
And more important, it you decide to love (as suggested be some here before) can this grow romantic feelings (on top of respect and devotion)?

Thanks,
torn
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Old 8th May 2009, 12:17 AM   #57
torn
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

Another thing I should mention is that ever since we are together I’ve been “withering” - loosing interest in my appearance, gaining weight, l lost the drive to do anything, I stopped exercising (which I used to do daily) and lost my fitness.
I have no drive to progress with our marriage and things are “frozen” at a time when they should be “driving” forward. My wife is complaining about all this but believes this will improve with time (or once have kids).
I’m reluctant to get her pregnant with the excuse that I’m not feeling ready (buying a bit more time till I decide what todo…)
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Old 8th May 2009, 08:47 AM   #58
Raymond
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

Andrewbee I think it is great how you are getting through things. I know that there are problems in your marriage but problems are part of life. You can have problems and be happy but when it gets too much and affects happiness I know that is different.

I have noticed in your writing that your wife believes you never loved her. That would affect any wife in any marriage in and out of the bedroom. I know you do a lot of the practical things and show love in that way but perhaps the thing you lack is getting it accross to her that you love her as a wife. That is always vital for a good marriage and worth all the effort it takes. That may be a big challenge to you but it is a very important one.

Raymond
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Old 8th May 2009, 08:59 PM   #59
JWD
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

I'm not sure what to say to you torn. I did reply section by section but deleted it as it sounded like I was picking on you for your feelings and really I was just trying to get to the reasons as to why you feel you had to marry someone just because you didn't want to hurt their feelings. Is this really true?

You are not in love with her, you don't find her physically attractive, you 'think' you are more intelligent than her or is it the other way round? was sit her intelligence that attracted you? I ask as it seems she has no qualities you find attractive at all. and now she is making you fat?

What signs are so evident that she is blind to see? what are you trying to show her that you just can speak to her about?

What do you say when she complains about the lack of sex, how do you explain it?

i think the last thing you should be planning is to get her pregnant to save her feelings. That is just getting in deeper and deeper.

What do you like about her, what does she do that makes you want to go home to her and what would you miss about her?
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Old 9th May 2009, 11:02 AM   #60
Raymond
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

Hi Torn. I have read your posts. I am sorry not to comment on them immediately. It looks as if I ignored them. I concentrated on Andrewbees post as I was talking to him when he was on here before and I was interested in an update.

I don't know why you married a girl who you didn't love. It was a great disservice to her. You must have something of a people pleaser within you which is not always a good thing as you can be manipulated against your better judgment.

Now that you are married I think the situation can be redeemed. I think you have this woman in the palm of your hand and could crush her to bits if you wanted to. It is quite frightening to me. I don't thinks she deserves this beause you didn't have the courage of your convictions. She has given you her life and her body and her everything in fact. This can be the basis of a wondeful marriage believe it or not.

You are seeking this romantic love. A lot of people who start off with this still end up in the skids after a very short time sometimes. A lot of the time it's one person falling in love with someone and that someone submitting to the love in the other person. It is a tremendous gift you have been given if you can see it that way. You could build a wonderful marriage if you really committed to it.

My own marriage was kind of like that. The girls I loved didn't respond but this one was in love with me for two years without me knowing and couldn't eat her food. I can't say that I had the romantic love for her to start with and in a way I was the responder. Once married I was never going to be unfaithful and loved her on purpose responding to the love she had. Over time the love has grown deeper and deeper and the bedroom more fulfilling. As I have worked on it the marriage has really blossomed. I have a fantastic wife (26 years now) and things came to fruit which were very unlikely to start off with.

I think down the line you could make a great marriage simply by loving her on purpose and responding to her love. I think it would be a great mistake to dump her. Everyday I count myself so fortunate to have the wife that I have. In the end Torn everyone has to work on their marriage regardless of the romance they started off with. You can learn it. You truly can.

There are so many breakups going on today where people say I don't feel I love you anymore. If you didn't have the feelings to start with you are in a great position to get it right by just cultivating a practical, caring and yes a sexual love for her.

Some people may not agree to what I have said, I know that. You have two roads and I know what the better road is.

Raymond
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