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Old 24th October 2008, 12:06 AM   #1
SallyJ
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Unhappy How do I know?

I'm new to this site but came across it trying to find help for my failing marriage. I have recently split from my husband of 12 years (together 16yrs) and now need to know whether the marriage really is over or if its salvageable. We have now been apart for one week, although we have seen each other briefly over this week because of the kids (we have 3 under 9). I instigated the separation as the last 18 months have gradually got worse between us until there is now no trust, honesty or even any respect for each other any more. About 10 years ago I had an affair with a colleague I worked with. It was very sporadic and at the time I truely had no real explanation why I did it. I eventually ended the affair and focused on my marriage and first son. My husband then later found out about this other relationship by reading my personal journal. At the time I was then pregnant with our twins (now 6). The following few months were rough but we worked through them and stayed together. He said he forgave me and wanted me and the marriage and I committed myself to the relationship. Since that time I feel that although we've had some pretty good times he has always been punishing me for the affair and my friendship with this other man and has never really forgiven me. This has taken the form of constant critisism, put downs and sarcastic remarks until eventually this has just worn away at me and any respect or love I felt for him. About 2 years ago I brought up how I now feel and as our sex life has gradually become non existent he has taken 'refuge' in internet dating sites and chat rooms having 'explicit' conversations with some 30 plus women. He even met one lady at least once. He tells me this has now stopped but when things between us don't make an instant improvement he goes back to it. Whereas before I trusted him totally that has completely gone, there is no trust left, nor is he being honest with me even now when I ask him straight out about his online activities. He doesn't believe these activities are anywhere near as bad as a physical affair but I do and its the interactions with real people, whether nearby or in another country, that really bother me. I just can't shake his apparent addiction to these sites and online interactions from my thoughts and how they are affecting our relationship. He expected me to cut all communication with the man I was involved with which I have done, as well as changed jobs, but he's apparently not prepared to do the same. We have now agreed to a temporary 2 month split to try and diffuse some of the tension from our situation and to try and re-build the relationship but I'm really not sure i want to anymore or whether I can trust him again or ever believe what he's telling me now. Why can't he be honest with me as I have been since he confronted me about my affair. I love him and care about him deeply as a really close friend but I'm not 'in love' with him anymore. When we can talk properly we are still good friends but as for a marriage and intimate relationship with him I don't know if its what I want or can even give him. How do I know whether I'm really missing him for the person he is and I married and not because I'm missing him being around the house and the kids because he's always been there? The tension and stress from my point of view has just drained away since he moved out and this last week has been far more relaxed at home with the kids. He says I've become hard and career orientated, but I feel I've had to in order to support us all when he retires in the next few years (there is a 24 year age gap between us). Everytime I try to find a solution to some of our problems he always turns it back around on me with reasons as to why it won't work because of something I'm either doing or not doing. I can't do right for doing wrong. We are supposed to be meeting for lunch tomorrow to discuss how things have been and to see if we can start the healing process. After a huge argument yesterday I'm not sure its going to be successful, and just don't know which way to turn again. Any help or advice would be really appreciated from those who have been there!
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Old 24th October 2008, 08:27 AM   #2
Raymond
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Re: How do I know?

Sally read your post briefly as having breakfast and on the way to work.

My take on this is that two wrongs do not make a right. Your adultery was wrong but you got right about it. The shame was he discovered it without you coming clean about it. Nevertheless if the marriage was to be mended his forgiveness was absolutely vital. When this was not forthcoming the marriage was doomed quite frankly. It is not too late. Forgiveness means forgetting and resisting the temptation to bring it up. It means no more judgment and condemnation. This is the poison that kills a marriage.

The other wrong is obviously his online activities which is a kind of mental adultery. Really the problems go right back to the lack of forgiveness. If he isn't prepared to give that the marriage is finished in essence. I think his lack of forgiveness and online activities are connected.

Raymond
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Old 24th October 2008, 11:08 AM   #3
Ginger God
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Re: How do I know?

Have to say Sally that I agree with everything Raymond has said....unfortunately you chucked the spanner in the works when you had your affair...its very difficult to recover from that..I speak from experience..my wife had an affair in 2001 and I never trusted her again and I left her in 2005.
However the fact that your hubby wants to visit dating sites tells you everything....I suppose its possible to live happliy married after an affair..but I have to admit I know of no one in that position.
Bold words needed when you meet up..the longer it drags the harder it becomes.

All the best....

Graham
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Old 25th October 2008, 10:53 AM   #4
SallyJ
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Re: How do I know?

Hello Raymond and Graham,
Thank you so much for your replies. I guess I was expecting to have to finally face the result of my own actions of so many years ago, but hearing it from you two really hit home, for which I'm really grateful. Its good to have some completely objective points of view rather than those of my close friends who, while did not condoned my actions, have always supported me and possibly not said what they really thought!

I have felt constant guilt over the years because of my affair and I think the reason I didn't come clean myself was because I didn't want to load all that onto my husband. It had finished and I had made the choice to commit myself to my husband and I was happy with that decision. Anyway, his lack of forgiveness over the years has worn me down. It has only been more recent months that he's brought this part of the past back up specifically but his lack of trust and forgiveness has manifested itself in other ways which has lead to how I now feel.

Since he left just over a week ago, the tension in the house has really lifted and I feel so much more positive about our relationship but I just feel that I can't get over his internet activities and lack of honesty to just be able to try and move on. When we met up yesterday for lunch is was actually very nice, and we just spent time talking about 'things' in general (something we've not done for such a long time). He says he wants us to work things out but isn't prepared to attend counselling and that we should just put everything behind us(maybe thats a generation thing, he's 62). I don't think he's been able to do that and I know I'm really struggling with his wrongs and still constant lies.

It would be so easy to get back together and try to move forward but I sometimes think doing this will make everyone else happy (him and the kids) but not me. I feel so desperately loney and in real need of some attention and affection that i could easily go back to him but don't know thats the right thing to do for everyone concerned? I really don't want to get involved with anyone else while we are still such a mess so I constantly find myself thinking I should give us another chance. Would I be using him as an emotional crutch if I did??
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Old 25th October 2008, 11:07 AM   #5
Raymond
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Re: How do I know?

It's the same thing the other way round Sally. If he cannot give up this internet business (mental adultery) then that comes between you. It will rob the intimacy of you marriage.

The two things remain clear as clear. He really needs to forgive your affair and give up this mental adultery. These two things are the biggies. Forgiveness is a big one. Without that we cannot know God and without that a marriage cannot thrive. Until these root things are dealt with they will remain there deep underneath poisoning all the attempts at intimacy. I cannot see that you are doing anything wrong. True love doesn't keep account of wrongs once they have been repented of and forgiven.

The only reason I can forgive is that I know God has forgiven me although I was born and shaped in sin. Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those that have tresspassed against us?. I should be preaching to him really but you get the drift.

You can get back together and try but if these two biggies can be dealt with there will be a big release.

Raymond
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Old 25th October 2008, 11:21 AM   #6
SallyJ
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Re: How do I know?

Hi Raymond,
I really wish I had your same level of faith, I really admire that.

My question then is; how do we actually then deal with these two big issues if all I get back from him regarding his forgiveness is that he has! but to me its pretty obvious though his actions that he hasn't. He tells me he has stopped all the internet stuff but I know he hasn't (or at least hadn't before he moved out, so I feel its unlikely to have stopped now he's not here).
Its the blatant lies when I ask him about it I find really difficult to deal with. If he has ever asked me anything I have been totally truthful with him and admitted what I'd done when he discovered my affair.
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Old 25th October 2008, 11:22 AM   #7
Ginger God
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Re: How do I know?

Sally....

Im 47 now..I left my first wife for my second and got paid back spectacularly for cheating in a previous life..it was the only time in my life that I cheated..Im not proud of it but got my kids out of my second marriage..so I would never rewind.
You are getting two different viewpoints here..Raymond speaks of God..whereas I have never been to the Kirk...
I dated as soon as I left my second wife..I was never ready and was a car crash with girls....but it got me though things quicker.
Three years down the line I have eventually met someone that I click with, and she is coming to have tea with my kids tonight who are 11 and 14. They have met no one before as it was important that i didnt have a procession of girls in the house.
Yes you dont want to use him as a crutch..other guys will find you desireable..I have dated girls over the past 3 years that I thought were way out of my league so that proves a point. Being single in your 40,s is very empowering but I have had my fun and now seek a wee bit more..not that I would add that marriage number 3 is on the cards..its not!
Take things at your own pace..be afraid of nothing, enjoy yourself..its sink or swim..I swum and I now love my life, kids with me half the week, nice girl to spend time with etc. Im not saying its easy breaking up because its not..I had to put up with a new guy living with my kids 4 months after I left but eventually rose above it.
Just you go for it girl....

Graham
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Old 25th October 2008, 11:54 PM   #8
SallyJ
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Re: How do I know?

Hi Graham,
Thanks for your comments, you story inspires me to think there really is life after separation!
I read on another thread the question: ''is it the presense of him you miss or what he contributed to the relationship?'' and thats what I can't answer, if I could I would be at least a few steps closer to deciding whether to try one more time or not. At the moment I dont miss him per se but desperately miss some intimacy and affection and I know I could certainly get that back pretty quickly if I let him in as it were, however at the moment I dont think he's contributing anything to the relationship other than lies.
I guess I've just answered that question then....
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