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Old 9th August 2009, 11:12 PM   #1
arcos
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Just what IS love?

Yes I know... The impossible question... But why should it be impossible?

Love is many things to many people. I have a very deep love of my children. It is something that I have never felt before. Since the day they were born I am amazed at how much love I have for them in a very emotional and spiritual kind of way.

I don't think I have ever had that strength of love for a partner. Of course the 'love' is different, or is it?

Open to ideas, thoughts and suggestions.... Please.
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Old 10th August 2009, 06:37 AM   #2
1aokgal
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Re: Just what IS love?

You made me think to ask what is love?

As you said we all interpret love in a different way. The Greeks used 3 different words all of which translate in English as the word "love."
These would be Eros, Philia and Agape.

Eros, is love most of us desire to have or to capture again all through our lives. This is love based on instinct without reason. This love is intense, passionate and deeply sexual. This is when the pulse races and obsessive thoughts preoccupy the mind of the loved ones' face and all memories we share with them. Eros is what moves one to sing or write poetry about the lover.
This is a love that is most desired.

Philia, is the under-appreciated kind of love we have for friends who complement our lives with loyalty and closeness when we need interaction with others to validate our efforts. It is family love and cameraderie with people who like who we are and support our efforts.

Agape love..This is unconditional love and doing what is good for the other. This is service for others involving self-sacrifice. It is what a soldier can have for his buddies that he would give his life for the good of others.

Why do marriages fail? I think marriages fail most often for defects in character and lack of virtue. When you truly love you desire the good of the other person more than oneself. Love is unselfish and giving. Love is the ultimate friendship and excellence of character that loves and supports the aspirations of the other. It is humility when praise is to be given, to let the other person feel approval and acceptance. It is unconditional and the greater the friendship, the more solid and longlasting is the union. We affirm "Until death do us part" which means we are two people united for our lifetimes.

The deepest sorrow is to love another without hope it can be reciprocated. In essense to throw love to the winds.
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Old 10th August 2009, 09:46 AM   #3
Raymond
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Re: Just what IS love?

I read something the other day which highlighted for me that it is not always the feeling which counts. When I look into the mirror I do not gush over myself but simply get on with washing and looking after myself and taking care of everything pertaining to me. It struck me that this is often how it is in marriage. We love the other because we do and watch out for them day in day out. Yes feelings will come but basically we love because we want to.

Raymond
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Old 10th August 2009, 04:13 PM   #4
1aokgal
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Re: Just what IS love?

Raymond..

Ultimately, love is a CHOICE. When passion is cool and time has passed it is a choice to continue to love someone (more than self.) As one loves God.....it is a choice.
Agreed?

That is getting back to that excellence of character. One posses the traits to be honest, loyal,
trustworthy and LOVING. A choice.

(We gush over you here on the forum, Raymond.)

Last edited by 1aokgal; 10th August 2009 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 10th August 2009, 07:45 PM   #5
Raymond
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Re: Just what IS love?

You are absolutely right 1aokgal. Love is a choice. That is the bit that takes you through actually. Because I made vows, because I honour God I don't have any choice but to love my wife. I had the freedom to choose her and marry her. Nobody forced me. Now my bit is to love her forever. I may fail sometimes but I never stop. Don't get me wrong the feelings are there as well but actually the marriage covenant itself is the strength of it. Yes it is a choice or in other words an act of ones will. Doesn't mean we ever stop learning how to love.

Raymond
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Old 10th August 2009, 07:49 PM   #6
clockwork orange
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Re: Just what IS love?

Well put, both of you! Or to put it another way, love is something you DO, an action. In the best sense it is a verb, not a noun.

Karen
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Old 10th August 2009, 08:22 PM   #7
Raymond
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Re: Just what IS love?

Well put you as well CO.

Raymond
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Old 11th August 2009, 10:24 AM   #8
arcos
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Re: Just what IS love?

Can I play devils advocate here for a minute...

Raymond... If love is choice then you say you don't have a choice? Nobody made you choose your wife or to marry her but you ARE being forced to love her? I am not disrespecting your views Raymond simply asking a question.

1aokgal... When the passion is cool then why stay? Yes it is a choice but there has to be something to 'stay for'? Is it not better to move on, for both parties, and find that passion again? Is it the passion what everyone really craves? With so many people here having been hurt through infidelity I would suggest that there is some truth in this?

CO... I do agree that love is something that we DO. We have to do IT every minute of every day.

I am not disagreeing with anything that you guys have said in your posts, not for one minute, I am trying to get a better understanding of what 'love' is. You know from my posts elsewhere that I truly believe in the institution of marriage and families. If I could I would still be in that institution... For better and for worse, isn't that one of the vows?

I have not been a 'saint' in the past, in past relationships and have behaved badly in some of them. But I am learning that there is far more to a relationship than JUST love, JUST passion.

Once the first throws of passion have subsided it is then that the choices are made.

Love is..... Hard Work!

It also takes TWO. Two people of the same mind set, with the same values, with the same amount of strength the carry on and build on and work at the relationship, the marriage. That takes trust, honesty, loyalty and, above all, respect from both. If one or two of these are not there on either side then the marriage, the relationship is doomed to failure.

That's my take on it anyway, so far. I really want to try and find out if I cam capable of 'love', to be able to 'love' another partner. Not through the hurt that I have been through now, I now realise that there was little 'love' in that relationship, that marriage. Can I 'love' another, not now, but at some time in the future? To be able to do that I need to understand what 'love' really is.
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Old 11th August 2009, 01:18 PM   #9
Raymond
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Re: Just what IS love?

I am not being forced to love her Arcos but I make that choice to love her. I am saying that because I married her I am committed to loving her. I don't see any choice in the sense that it is overwhelmingly the right thing and the desirable thing to do in my view. I am honoured that I got chosen. I never ever want her to regret that decision forever.

The essence of love is wanting the best for the other person. This is worked out in many ways within relationship. Your love for your children is a God given thing that a father should have although this can be muted through bad relationship. It's takes two to have a relationship so if ones love is not received then the other person is not sharing in the life from it that they could.

If one cannot love or receive love then they are alone.

Raymond
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Old 11th August 2009, 09:31 PM   #10
1aokgal
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Re: Just what IS love?

Then there are the different types of love that one can have in a marriage.

If one is disabled and there is no "passion/sex" should the able bodied person pack their bags and search for a hot one? When two are together for many years are there are other degrees of love besides Eros. There is companionship and friendship. There also comes a time when the search is over.

We know of some celebrities who were rich, beautiful and still went through eight husbands and did not get it right. Should they shoot for lucky #9 or has age, circumstances and common sense dictated maybe they should stay where they are? Does one still love though there is no passion? I say "yes" there can still be love in the absence of passion...people with physical problems still love, but in a different dimension.

There are marriages here on the forum that will survive until "death do you part" because physically, financially the parties will live out the remainder of their years together. Perhaps companionably, perhaps not. Passion is past but there are still loyalties and caring to keep the two together.

Should assets be halved so each can go live in poverty and hope there is one more round out there? No, they will make peace and support each other through the rest of life. Ah, for passion...that may be past because one has decided they no longer desire it.
That happens all the time. Then the other partner must live as best they can to find some peace with that.

We all have to be realistic in our expectatios that past youth and past middle age some will have a sexual fulfillment and some will live out their lives alone. Relationships do take work but mostly unselfishness and defintely one has to have virtue to live in a world of temptation. It is not hard to find sex but it is hard to find real love and passion. The toughest part is to nurture a love relationship when we have it.

Then there is LUCK. Some of us find virtuous partners who will make moral choices. We read here about many with unfaithful immature partners, selfish and uncaring who risk everything to go outside of the marriage. Sometimes alcohol is the problem and sometimes these people always had self gratication as a central focus. That is a character defect or poor mrntal health. These individuals are morally bankrupt with no compass to reality. Marriage is not compatible with a spouse with no moral fiber. Then it is better to divorce.

What is love? Patient, caring, faithful, honest, giving, long-suffering, tenacious, undestanding and a hundred more things and with every breath....you try one more time.
What is love worth? It is worth everything one possesses to have a partner and to live a
good life.

Last edited by 1aokgal; 12th August 2009 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 12th August 2009, 01:13 AM   #11
arcos
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Re: Just what IS love?

[QUOTE=Raymond;47278]I don't see any choice in the sense that it is overwhelmingly the right thing and the desirable thing to do in my view. I am honoured that I got chosen. I never ever want her to regret that decision forever.[/QUOTE]

Quite right Raymond!

I was not attacking your previous post just asking a question.

Doing the "right thing" is a state of mind, a set of values that makes it the "right thing". Having those values and the personal traits to carry them out is what makes a person strong.

You are obviously a very strong person Raymond.
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Old 12th August 2009, 01:41 AM   #12
arcos
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Re: Just what IS love?

[QUOTE=1aokgal;47284]What is love worth? It is worth everything one possesses to have a partner and to live a good life.[/QUOTE]

There are clearly many levels of 'love', many interpretations of what love is to that person. What may be love to me may be different to another.

I don't believe however that the foundations are that different though. The 'core' morals have to be there to start with to build that relationship. Interpreting 'love' within that relationship will depend on the partners.

A great question 1aokgal "What is love worth?"... Is it worth everything? I am not so sure. Of course, personally, I would like to think that I could give everything to have a partner and live the good life. On a practical level however, is it ever possible to commit to that? For example, infidelity of ones partner? Should one then keep giving everything to ones partner?
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Old 12th August 2009, 03:42 PM   #13
1aokgal
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Re: Just what IS love?

Sometimes I think love is like the Zen philosophy to imagine..sounds silly....love is like ONE HAND CLAPPING.

My situation may be unique but I feel as if one hand is clapping.. All effort, all belief, all morally correct. Then one hopes the reflection in the pond is the lover who reflects the same values. I hope for myself to stay free of anger (which wounds me), and to be all forgiving. One makes the motion but there is no sound. Is it less honorable.... that it is just one hand clapping?

I know my heart loves but I am not sure who, when or why I love. Maybe I have to love....it is part of my innate humanity that I must love. Maybe life is a puzzle and we never understand it.

What is the sound of one person loving?

Last edited by 1aokgal; 12th August 2009 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 12th August 2009, 08:38 PM   #14
arcos
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Re: Just what IS love?

Interesting thoughts.

I understand where you are coming from with the one hand clapping. I favour Yin and Yang as being complementary opposites. When one claps it is never a perfect reflection but one hand compliments the other by making a greater whole.

You sum up my feeling... Maybe I have to love... To give love. One can love one's self but that is not giving love.

The sound of one person loving is a difficult one...

Is it silence?

or

Is it a scream?
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Old 13th August 2009, 04:04 AM   #15
1aokgal
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Re: Just what IS love?

One person loving can be silence ..can be screams and crying.

Crying for what one hoped. One person can realize the loss. Loss is forever.

It never comes again. Breathlessness.

It never comes again. Waiting in the rain with a full heart
for someone to arrive and searching faces in a crowd for that face when a plane arrives. Such joy.
All that is gone.

Watching others. Seeing others experience joy. Shutting down inside so you don't hate them for their joy. That is love. Alone.
**************************
Only a lot of work and thinking how to make the best of the rest of our lives is the healing touch.

Last edited by 1aokgal; 13th August 2009 at 08:06 PM.
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