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Old 1st May 2010, 02:56 PM   #1
nojoy
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Join Date: May 2010
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I cheated on my wife.....feeling miserable

Just joined the site today...Greetings to all
As my name suggests...i'm in no state of peace or joy
I committed the most unthinkable sin...betrayed a trust...hurt so many loving people...

I'm 42 yrs old male, married my wife 13 yrs back. It was an inter community marriage wherin we come from completely different culture. I saw her in a fair, followed her up...lost my heart...and after two years married her in 97.

Right from the begining my mother didnt accept the marriage well but didnt make it obvious. (I'm the only son and i had lost my father when i was 9 yrs of age with a sister 6 yrs younger to me. My mother was just 29 yrs when she lost my father to a accident. She struggled hard to bring us up).

My wife always stayed with me and we stayed in different parts of the country as well as abroad.

For all our married life we couldn't start a family as i had problems with my spermology. An IVF attempt in South Africa in 2007 bore fruits and she became pregnant with twins but lost both after 5 months of pregnancy. Second attempt didnot succeed. We returned back to our country and adopted a baby girl.

One day in office i received a strange call from a lady who refused to disclose her identity. On curiosity, i pursuied the caller for about a month and started talking. We found common topic for discussion as she too had twins from IVF and that she is a graduate of Electronics and working in a bank. She is married but lives separately from her husband who, as per her, used to ill treat her badly. We continued to talk and met after two months....had an affair for two years. But it was not a happy affair.
She soon found my weakness and strated demanding legitimacy and wanted to disclose it to my wife. I had tild her in the beining only that i will never leave my wife but she became vilently abusive and stated threatining dire consequences. She took money from initially as a loan with promise to return but later flatly refused. She even took out money from my bank account and only told me later about it.
She also threatened to commit suicide a number of times if i dont listen to her (She had tried commiting suicide in early stages of her marriage). I order pacify her and prevent her from approaching my wife i introduced her to my sister and later my mother. My folks sgreed to help to cool her down till i find a way to get out of the relation. She used to get calls made to my wife through her friends without my knowledge about our affair. When asked about these calls she would plead ignorance. She used to abuse me a lot and curse me most of the time. I used to be very patient but then one day i broke and told her to do whatever she wants...she called my wife.....and all hell broke loose.
Thsi happened in last December and since then i stopped all contacts with that woman and living a life of utter misery and complete disaster.
I deeply apologised for my acts to my wife knowing that it has no effect on the kind of pain i caused her and continue to do so till date....

I donot want to leave my wife and want to give whatever it takes to make this marriage work. I love my daughter dearly and cannot imagine to loose her. I have sinned greatly and ready to pay any price for it..

My wife feels betrayed not only by me but by my mother and my sister too...My wife abuses me verbally everyday and becomes physically violent too...I just take it all in as punishment and keep begging for mercy....

She starts fighting from first thing in the morning till well past midnight everyday. Its almost over 5 months now and the intencity is only increasing. We did visit a counsellor once but my wife accused me of being biased and rejected all advises....

Dont know what to do....
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Old 2nd May 2010, 06:02 AM   #2
Lola
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Re: I cheated on my wife.....feeling miserable

Hi Nojoy:

I am sorry to hear this has happened to you. I am on the other side of the spectrum in my life such as your wife, so I thought I would put my two cents in on how she is treating you.

No doubt you have hurt her beyond words. I know the feeling she is feeling and especially if she loves you, that is why she is destroyed. She feels the following and you MUST get this through your head (sorry to be blunt, but it is the truth):

She feels betrayed.
She feels like she now has no self esteem...that you wanted someone else
She feel like you never loved her...(even if you say you do, tough, she FEELS THIS WAY.)
She feels ANGRY AT YOU and will for a very long time as long as you are together....
She feels like she can never trust you again and she asks herself how she ever will....
She feels trapped like "I love him, but I hate him....what do I do now?"
She feels like killing you!!
She feels like you aren't the person she met...
She feels like a fool for this going on and her not knowing.....so she is even mad at herself.
She feels like some people will give excuses for you if they haven't already and she then will feel like "what, are you (the other people) crazy?"

She feels like you have let the family down, which includes your child.
She feels like you will just lie to her again if she asks you ANYTHING.

So, basically, you are screwed at this moment and IF your marriage works....you basically have to endure her hatred for you....for a loooonnnnggg time. You have to beg, kiss butt and doing anything at this point even if you feel you are being rejected for a looongg time before you will ever have her trust again. You have to realize it is her timetable now and you MUST, ABSOLUTELY MUST SHOW REMORSE NOT JUST WITH WORDS, BUT WITH YOUR ACTIONS.

You must rebuild your relationship, get counseling, keep going for however long it takes and realize that she wants to be treated like a princess. You have to do this or it will never work if you are truly sorry. Don't become that once a cheater always a cheater jerk. You can be better than that. With all this hollywood infidelity in her face, it is hard for men these days to even be trusted at all.
You have to show her you made a mistake but never will again.
You can do this. If not for her, for me, to prove to me that there are still good guys out there.
God I hope there are.
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Old 2nd May 2010, 09:32 AM   #3
callmedave
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Re: I cheated on my wife.....feeling miserable

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola View Post
Hi Nojoy:

I am sorry to hear this has happened to you. I am on the other side of the spectrum in my life such as your wife, so I thought I would put my two cents in on how she is treating you.

No doubt you have hurt her beyond words. I know the feeling she is feeling and especially if she loves you, that is why she is destroyed. She feels the following and you MUST get this through your head (sorry to be blunt, but it is the truth):

She feels betrayed.
She feels like she now has no self esteem...that you wanted someone else
She feel like you never loved her...(even if you say you do, tough, she FEELS THIS WAY.)
She feels ANGRY AT YOU and will for a very long time as long as you are together....
She feels like she can never trust you again and she asks herself how she ever will....
She feels trapped like "I love him, but I hate him....what do I do now?"
She feels like killing you!!
She feels like you aren't the person she met...
She feels like a fool for this going on and her not knowing.....so she is even mad at herself.
She feels like some people will give excuses for you if they haven't already and she then will feel like "what, are you (the other people) crazy?"

She feels like you have let the family down, which includes your child.
She feels like you will just lie to her again if she asks you ANYTHING.

So, basically, you are screwed at this moment and IF your marriage works....you basically have to endure her hatred for you....for a loooonnnnggg time. You have to beg, kiss butt and doing anything at this point even if you feel you are being rejected for a looongg time before you will ever have her trust again. You have to realize it is her timetable now and you MUST, ABSOLUTELY MUST SHOW REMORSE NOT JUST WITH WORDS, BUT WITH YOUR ACTIONS.

You must rebuild your relationship, get counseling, keep going for however long it takes and realize that she wants to be treated like a princess. You have to do this or it will never work if you are truly sorry. Don't become that once a cheater always a cheater jerk. You can be better than that. With all this hollywood infidelity in her face, it is hard for men these days to even be trusted at all.
You have to show her you made a mistake but never will again.
You can do this. If not for her, for me, to prove to me that there are still good guys out there.
God I hope there are.

I agree with this 100% Lola.

Nojoy, I also cheated on my wife, not in a physical sense but with cyber sex over a prolonged period, it took me a while to accept what my ex was saying when she said this is still cheating, I always looked at cheating as sleeping with someone, how niave at 39 years of age eh.

The deceipt in many peoples eyes is equally as bad as the action itself.

First off you have to accept that it is YOU that has done wrong and dont feel sorry for yourself (if that is the case) that she is giving you a very hard time, if you cause someone the level of pain you have then you need to deal with the consequenses im afraid, this isnt a personal dig its how it is.

Lola is absolutely right when she says that you HAVE to show remorse with your actions, the words will just mean nothing and my guess is that you have repeated over and over that you regret what you did but it isnt going to wash.

Show your wife what she means to you by giving her space when she asks for it, anything she asks you to do (within reason) do it without a second thought.

Always, always, always listen to her feelings and disregard yours completely no matter how loud the volume is or what is being fired at you, NEVER forget you have caused this pain.

Do as much as you possibly can that will have a positive effect on your W, and here is an important factor, DONT make a big deal about what you have done for her or acknowledge that you are making an effort just do it.

For you it is vital in my opinion that you do some soul searching into how you have become a cheat, do whatever it takes to search deeper into your soul, that may be counselling, therapy, but this is as important as showing your wife you lover her, without this there is a chace you will make the same mistakes again.

If you are sincere in what you do for both yourself and wife my guess is you have a chance as you are still in the marital home.

Please be aware that there are people on here who will listen and try to help wherever possible and keep posting as we are all in pain but for different reasons.

Finally good luck and please try your very best and put your wife first.

I hope this isnt too late for you and you can make a success of your marraige.
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Old 3rd May 2010, 07:27 AM   #4
nojoy
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Re: I cheated on my wife.....feeling miserable

Thank you Lola and callmedave for your response, your comments are of immence value to me as i have not been able to speak to anyone about it. My wife though have told most of her friends and family about it and very rightfully so...
I'm very serious about my approach to make this marriage work and am working towards it. Have been taking all that she throws at me...both verbal and physical.
And Lola...I really am amazed at myself as to how managed to get into a situation like this and coused someone dear so much pain. All my life i have been a very straight guy and never could hurt anyone, can't even say NO to anyone for anything...
I cry now almost everyday at myself for what i have done....
I can take anything that she throws at me but now when she starts abusing my mother and sister, that is becoming difficult to digest...
I will do outmost to understand why it happened. She asks me why but i know she cannot handle truth, whenever i try to tell something she switches to a different mode and becomes very violent and abusive....
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Old 3rd May 2010, 10:02 AM   #5
Raymond
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Re: I cheated on my wife.....feeling miserable

You have your work cut out Nojoy and you have received good advice from Lola and Callmedave which I can't really add to except to endorse it. I think you have genuine repentance which is the main requisite for fixing this. It looks like it will take some time to restore the trust. Trust is the element which takes the longest to build up but can be broken the quickest so it is very essential. It think you will be able to restore that trust gradually if you take Lola and Callmedave's advice. Repentance is a marvellous things but try not to get into self condemnation. There is no doubt that you have done wrong but you are still a person who is now trying to do the right thing. So you are entitled to breathe fresh air the same as anyone else. There will be light at the end of the tunnel and your marriage can be restored if that is what she wants as well. It will take time that is all.

Raymond
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Old 3rd May 2010, 01:28 PM   #6
nojoy
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Re: I cheated on my wife.....feeling miserable

Thanx Raymond for your note. I'm all too serious to make this marriage work and win her trust back. The times she is upset and angry.. life seems like hanging in balance....It actually becomes difficult to breeth. Never knew it could be viewed in so many different angles...all converging towards me. Whenever she is in good mood...life seems promising...but they are so short lived.

Am already working your all advices and thanks a ton for replying my post. They mean a lot to me

Will continue to post the progress (hopefully)....
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Old 19th May 2010, 09:03 AM   #7
nojoy
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Re: I cheated on my wife.....feeling miserable

I totally agree that the fault is mine and mine alone and i am ready to walk the fire for it..rather i am walking it almost everyday--morning, afternoon, evening till late night. This Forum is the only place where i have managed to express myself. Whatever i did 'm deeply ashamed of it. I myself am amazed at my pathetic conduct and will bear this burden till my last day. I want do everything possible to make this marriage work and will take all that she throws at me. I totally agree with you all about what i have done is terribly wrong and believe you me, i myself am amazed as to how i managed to do what i did. I truly feel horrible...

How ever there are many tough hurdles that i have to cross...

I downloaded a nice piece of music which i wanted my wife to hear. Unfortunately, despite had virtually erased everything from my past affair, somehow few pictures of the other women with my mother when they had visited me for few days remained back in my hard disk..
(My mother had fractured her hand and came to stay with me for some rehab time after her operation. The other woman was continuously threatening me to come and visit my place of work or else would be disclosing our affair to my wife and would visit my place of work of her own and cause more embarrassment for me. At this juncture i told my mother everything and requested her for help and let her come along with her. This way i could at-least prevent a showdown at my work place. I was staying alone at that time)
This i had no knowledge of and i had honestly thought that i had deleted all part of my that life completely both from anything physical like pictures and my mind. While i was making my wife my listen to music in my laptop, she started to check my hard disk, this i readily agreed and sat down with her but out of nowhere my wife dug out pictures of the other women. I cried and pleaded that i had no knowledge about its existence but she didn't believe and this time along with verbal abuse she went physical and slapped, hit and clawed me. Understanding her situation i quietly took all the blows and slaps. She also told a lot of very nasty things to me and my mother and sister and also called up her own sister and complained.
A few days back I took my wife for a tour to some scenic places. She used to be fine while sightseeing but would start fighting again almost everyday the moment we get back to place of stay.
Couple of nights back she suddenly brought up the issue and started fighting. She again went physical and abused me, my mother and my sister. This went on till way past midnight....Again in the morning she restarted the whole thing till i left for office.
She spends most of her time surfing the internet searching for the other woman and keeping a tab on whats she is doing, whom she is in contact with, who all are her friends etc etc...This has become an obsession for her. She is constantly snooping, sniffing for any evidence against me, every bit of stuff in the house is looked into with suspicion whether it belongs to the other woman or not. Making up imaginary stories in the mind and starts believing them and interrogating me on them. It seems so damn difficult to make her understand after that.....
A few days back in the afternoon suddenly she went hyper over a music folder in my laptop whose properties showed date stamp of 06 Dec last year when as per my wife i was meeting the other woman. Despite my best effort to make her believe its not true and that a music folder of love songs have got nothing to do with the other woman and that the date time stamp are incorrect as the laptop dates were not set properly. When i tried to show her that all other folders also bear the same date stamp, she refused to see it. She again went physical and slapped and kicked me.. this time i grabbed her tight and pushed her down on the sofa to control her rage and told her i will NOT take this physical behavior any more. Now she tells me that i tried to hit her and pushing her is same as hitting...Then i apologized and told her that her accusations are baseless and not true.
...she again started off with all the blame game and that she left everything for me and that she didn't do anything in life because of me and i'm responsible for her NOT being professional and that she never took a job because of family...
I assure her that she never have to worry about financial support and that i will provide all throughout her life but that also is not working. I try to tell her its she who is ruining the prospects of our happiness but to this her standard reply is that i should have thought about before. In fact this is the reply i get for anything i say to her.

If one commits a sin, one gets punishes only once and one goes through the sentence, at least they are free mentally thereafter but here i get crucified almost everyday and night.... She thinks that i'm putting up with all this because i'm scared of it to become public and i will be punished officially by the authority and my career will be over.

Last edited by nojoy; 19th May 2010 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 19th May 2010, 01:13 PM   #8
Raymond
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Re: I cheated on my wife.....feeling miserable

The answer to that may be to let her do her worst if she wants it to go public. I can imagine her head being filled with playback about the other woman and what you did. However at some point she must reach the place of forgiveness for the marriage to be saved. If she is going to punish you forever where is the future?

That you did wrong you are not disputing and have shown the necessary repentance. How long you can go on like this I don't know but you are doing the best you can do.

I would give it more time to see if her attitude will gradually change but without that forgiveness there is a block on future progress. That is just how it is. When bad things are done against us the only way the relationship is restored is through forgiveness following the others repentance. There is no other way around it.

Raymond
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Old 22nd May 2010, 09:01 PM   #9
Lola
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Re: I cheated on my wife.....feeling miserable

Hi. I just wanted to say that if this cheating was just recent, even in the past year, you can't expect her to be all over it yet. I hear you when you speak of all the abuse she is giving out, but you must understand you have ruined her self esteem.

Mine was ruined and even with counseling, I have a hard time even looking at any woman who has the least bit of good looks. Anything she has that I don't believe I have, I lose it.

You have to understand that you crossed a line emotionally with your wife in that you made her feel like NOTHING. She is struggling trying to find a way to feel right about this, and all she can do is come back and blame you....rightfully so...but she is having a hard time figuring out the WHY. She probably wants to know why you did the cheating, how you could do that to her and how she is supposed to find her way back to a marriage she feel comfortable in. She must love you since she is staying to beat the crap out of you. She could just say "Screw you" and be gone without a care in the world....but she must have some feelings and love for you because she is staying to play all this out.

In regards to your computer, pics, and dates...I went through the same thing. You have to realize that you cheated (lied), so NOTHING you say will she believe. So don't try to convince her if she finds something..even if you are right. Just admit it and apologize. Hopefully she won't find anything else? I did with my husband....lies I uncovered that he admitted to. So, you need to see that once you lie once, you are screwed!!

Since she apparently loves you, (she is still there), all you can do is what I told you before, and never waiver! Keep doing the right things, and if she hits you, just grab her wrists in the calmest way possible and say "Please stop, I love you and I am sorry for hurting you, but please stop." And calmly walk away for a bit.

If I were you, I would plan weekly time with her...quality time. Don't over do it like you are showering her, but you have to NOT ignore her at all. Don't go on your computer past dinner, ever. Don't forget any holidays or birthdays, and always call her to see how she is. (from work or whereever).
Tell her you love her a lot, make sure you have intimacy that she will allow, and show remorse for a long time. I am still recovering and I still don't trust my husband because his niceness is short lived. He is nice, then mean, then nice, then mean....it is a ridiculous cycle and it hurts to know that he has no patience to get through what he did to me.

I cry a lot when he is not home as all I think about is "I have nothing..I am nothing...no one cares about me." I think about what in my life he has ruined....I blame him all the time....that he was supposed to be that knight in shining armor to protect me forever.

Just a suggestion: Get the book "If only he knew" by Gary Smalley. My husband has just ordered it per our counselor, and I plan to read it before he does. It is for men to read, but I still want to read it. GEt it, read it and learn from it. I hear it is very good.

If you love your wife, honestly, and you truly want this to work, then you must stick it out. Now if she starts to do horrible things to you, such as betrayal, cheating on you back, hurting your family, your reputation with lies, (not the truth now, you have to be prepared for her to tell close friends...I did out of grieving..sorry, it's the way it is), then you have to talk to her calmly and see why she is doing those things and if she wants the marriage to work.

If she does, give her a chance to apologize for those things and for you two to move on. Counseling I highly suggest, but a good counselor. It took me like 5 to find the right one. Many down play the cheating to the wife and it shouldn't be. You hurt her deeply....basically did the worst thing you could do to her.

She hates you right now, to put it bluntly. I feel hate for my husband, still, two years later. I told the counselor right in front of him that I love him and hate him. I still don't trust him....but he is part of not letting the trust come back. You can't do anything that gives her the slightest thought you are cheating. Even though you aren't, she will find something to yell at you about.

Remember this: If she didn't love you, she wouldn't be hurting, at all. So, since she is hurting so badly, she loves you, BUT she also hates you. It is going to take you a long time to fix this. She probably sees you in a good way sometimes...hence the good mood, then there are times when she is reminded about it all and gets in a bad mood, then takes it out on you. I do this. If he says or does something that reminds me, I get depressed and all goes to hell for a few days.

It is unfortunate, and that is what I have to work on, but it isn't easy, let me tell you. Just don't give up. If anyone does, let it be her. You giving up would just prove to her that she was right and you never wanted her. If you do, you will do whatever it takes to fix it.
Good luck. Keep taking the beatings, you're a man. (meaing, you can do it.)
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Old 25th May 2010, 09:54 AM   #10
nojoy
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Re: I cheated on my wife.....feeling miserable

Thank you Lola for the insight into my problems, I truly appreciate your views...
As i have often repeated, there is no doubt about my wrong doing and that i will pay my dues for it overtime and that i have been doing since last December.
As for assuring her of my intent to make this marriage work, i do everything known to me for saying and doing things to make her believe that i want to make this marriage work....
I tell her i love her...take her out...go for family outings...and love her in all possible ways...
However, it doesn't seems to be working.
She often keeps repeating that she is in this marriage because of our daughter and that she is now old and cannot restart her life. (She is 38).
She often repeats that she wants to leave me and wants to go back.
She seems to be fine on her own but the moment she sees me she gets the feeling back again.
She will bring up issues out of nowhere and again mostly untrue. She will imagine situations and starts believing them to be true and would seek explanation. When i tell her that these are not true she just wont believe my part and will say that she doesn't trust me.
I don't know how to bring proofs for things that didn't happen on ground. Just a few moments back she called me in my office and started accusing me of knowing the other women way long back then the actual time i knew her. She now accuses my mother and my sister of knowing her much in past. These accusations are untrue but she wont believe me. She wants proof but how can i get these proofs i don't know.
Last Sunday we went out on family outing to a nice place. Another couple joined us but since we were in different vehicles it didn't matter much. While going only started again on the issue. I requested her to try take it out of her for the time being and enjoy the outing but she would start blaming me that i don't want to discuss the issue because i'm trying to protect the other woman. On our way back again she would start the topic, but while on the outing she seemed to enjoy it fully with the other couple.
Her main complaint is that i have made her loose her self respect and that i have destroyed her because she cannot support herself at this age. Secondly, she believes that i'm in it because i'm scared of the legal and social consequences if she complains to authorities. Almost everyday she now demands her ticket to her parents house and says that she cannot live with me...
I can take all that she throws at me and wont say a thing but i really don't know how it is effecting our daughter. I request her not to get upset in front of our daughter but this she would say ' i should have thought about it before and that she should know what kind of man i am'. Our daughter is just 2 yrs 10 months old.
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Old 25th May 2010, 11:26 AM   #11
Wiggle
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Re: I cheated on my wife.....feeling miserable

Hi Nojoy,

I can't give you any better advice than Lola. I just have one thought - your wife keeps on raising the issue of her quality of life, her lack of profesional qualifications etc. One way that you could maybe demonstrate your love for her, that you want her to be happy, and help raise her self-esteem is to pay for her to take some professional qualifications?

I think couple counselling would be a good place to start, and I personally don't think it's right she is getting upset in front of her daughter. I can understand why, but don't agree with it.

Good luck
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Old 25th May 2010, 01:02 PM   #12
Raymond
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Re: I cheated on my wife.....feeling miserable

The main point here is to mend the marriage if it can be mended.

Until your wife gets to the place of forgiveness No Joy the marriage cannot be mended. How long it will take her to get there I don't know. You seem to be doing all you can and full appreciate the wrong that you have done.

Lola has advised to take her rants on the chin. Maybe this is necessary until she feels a measure of healing and your repentance and love get through to her.

If on the other hand she is never going to forgive, and one cannot say that yet, then things can never move forward.

I think the main thing going on at the moment is the devastation caused through the breaking of trust. This takes the longest to build but can be broken the quickest. This needs to be restored but will take time as it always does.

I think all you can do is do what you are doing. If on the other hand she wants out there is nothing you can do about it, but hopefully that is not the case.

Raymond

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Old 26th May 2010, 01:02 PM   #13
lostwife
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Re: I cheated on my wife.....feeling miserable

I do agree that taking it on the chin and showing your wife that you are truly repentant for your actions is the way forward but I hope I am not alone is saying that your wife physically hitting you is not something that is acceptable. Regardless of what you have done, that is domestic violence and is certainly not something I feel should be heppening to you with your daughter in the house

I know how difficult it is to not trust the man whose hands you have placed your heart. You will be scrutinised with every little thing you do - why do you like that song, because of HER?, why do you do this, because of HER?, everything I would imagine right through to why you put the toilet paper on the holder a certain way will be picked apart piece by piece. If that is how your wife finds solace to work through her emotions then so be it. I know that is exactly how I would react and rightly so. I am sorry that I can't justify your wife's physical abuse towards you as I don't feel that any situation justifies that.

I really hope you can fix the world you so long to be in NoJoy - good luck hun xxxxx
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Old 26th May 2010, 02:19 PM   #14
nojoy
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Re: I cheated on my wife.....feeling miserable

Presently, my wife's main complaint is that i have lied to her and for that she can never trust me...this feeling of hers i understand, but she complains that i have not come clean and asks such questions that i have no answers..
1. What did she have that my wife doesn't have?
2. How could i continue for such a long time and never told her?
3. How did i feel with her?
4. What we were talking or doing minute by minute when i was with the other woman?
5. How did i have a physical relationship with the other woman and how was it different or special than the one with my wife?
6. How could i get aroused by the other woman and not by my wife during my period of infidelity? (I never actually had intercourse with my wife during the period of infidelity but used to do everything else except the final part. My standard excuse was my back pain and actually i could never get aroused with my wife during that period. May be out of shame as i was always feeling guilty at that time but lacked moral courage to tell my wife about my relation).
My wife now constantly threatens to leave me and i just keep mumbling how sorry i am and keep begging her not to leave...
Physical abuse have now stopped but replaced with more frequent complaints all the time.
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Old 27th May 2010, 08:55 AM   #15
Raymond
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Re: I cheated on my wife.....feeling miserable

Answers have to be found I suppose Nojoy. I think a lot of it is lust getting out of control rather than you loving this other woman? There is no real intimacy in these things even when there is sex. It seems that she has a lot of questions in her mind and perhaps thinking about each one might throw up answers. Sometimes there is no answer for doing wrong. We are just sorry about it and need forgiveness. I am sure she will need forgiveness for things although perhaps not on that level.

I don't think one can compare illicit sex with legitimate intimacy with ones wife. It is not really a case of what has she got that I haven't got. It is a case of lust stepping out of it's boundaries because you let it, is it not? Wanting ones cake and eating it. Selfishness? These are the true positions not what has she got that I haven't got. One cannot compare like that as it is failing to understand the real problem. The same thing happens in porn and all of these things. They are all a kind of adultery on one level or another.

Raymond
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