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Old 3rd August 2011, 10:48 AM   #721
chosen
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

chamomile you are right, and that is why its so important not to let things fester or let bitterness creep in. Not easy I know, but its so important.
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Old 3rd August 2011, 01:00 PM   #722
Forever
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

So I dont get it. Where exactly has anyone judged you Baroness? You keep saying that, but I have not seen anyone do such a thing where you are concerned...and asking questions or stating observations is not judging is it? Do you consider someone sharing their experiences and perspective or encouragement as being judged? No one is telling you what to do, how to feel, or how to decide. Everything we share are suggestions here, not law. We are all showing you your options on many many different levels. Do you ever really read other people's post which are designed to be supportive of you, without jumping straight to feeling defensive or without assigning something dark to their intentions?

I have been very very careful not to sling mud in your direction. Whatever you have read into any comments I have made, were never intended to judge or hurt you...some are not even about you, but generalities designed to try and make a point. That said, I think it is time for me to stay off of this topic where you personally are concerned, the only reason I came back on this part was to suggest the "O" ring because it dawned on me that you could find it useful. If you are interested, after reading 25 pages of your postings, this is my accessment of your issue:


You are not going to get what you want from him on your terms. You can make the best of what you have, or leave....your choice. Really, what else is there that you can do? We have presented every possible way there is that you can handle this...from spiritual, to practical, to emotional. If you want to sacrifice a portion of yourself for his benefit, then Kudos, because that is what your relationship amounts to since there are no children depending on what you decide to do, and it might always be that way. He is damaged. We all are. But he is not defined entirely by his problems, he is also so much more.

You have the freedom to take your "leave" of him whenever you wish, by whatever means you can...whether God approves of it or not...in our culture that is a given. If you stay, you are not "settling" or "enslaved" as if you are some neurotic basket case, unworthy of a better man, dependent, and full of fear. You are choosing to hope for better days, looking squarely at the reality of the present...whether it is of your own making or of his. You have one foot in, and one foot out. Your emotional instability will continue to pull you through knot holes until you make a choice...even then, there will be times, there will be times whether you stay or leave.

I wish you the very best, and always have.

Forever

P.S. 1 Corinthians 7 "Love does not keep a record of wrongs"...I wonder if you might try writing down only "what ever is good, what ever is pure, what ever is lovely, what ever is praisworthy and think on those things".

Last edited by Forever; 3rd August 2011 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 3rd August 2011, 06:26 PM   #723
1aokgal
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

Hi Chamomile..

Your observations are interesting. I appreciate very much your kind regard.

My husband made his career change after a business he put all into failed. That was partially due to his mistakes, inexperience in financial affairs and risks. His license/skills is in engineering on large Sultzer engines available only on large ships. He and I had problems over decisions he made in that business with shortcuts which bordered on illegal maneuvers. He took risks and he also stepped on the toes of a dangerous figure. He testified in an investigation which put his security at risk. The Godfather crime saga comes to mind here. My h. promised me when we married he would never take a job that took him far from home. The safest place he could find a place to escape that huge mess was out of the country. Meanwhile, I worked 55 hours a week for years in a job with a lot of responsibility. I developed Pernicious anemia along the way and stress beat me up.

He accepted a high paid job with a shipping company at sea. He sailed a solid year away to gain certain credentials in the industry. I was left with everything pretty much hanging around my ears. I had no idea how long he would be gone, or when he planned to return. My name was on a sales contract on a house at that time and I was sued for default on the terms. I was able to overturn that in court on a technicality failure by the seller. That's the benefit of the legal education I gained over three years study. Life then was tough. I had to move into another house with my daughter to be near her school and my work week was 55 hours. My paintings and designs I created began to sell, even though I had little time to paint.

There was so much stress that I saw my doctor with symptoms. That doctor saved my life that day to rush me from his office straight to the emergency room at the hospital. A test revealed serious heart dysfunction caused by a medication then known to be defective. I was put at deaths' door by a med for another slight problem. My heart had to be cardio-converted five times over ten years, which means the heart was stopped and restarted by shock treatments to reset the rythmn. This is an electrial problem, but the valve and heart was abnormal in size and function. A long awaited procedure, considered a miracle for this condition, was done by a doctor at the famous Cleveland Heart Clinic. This procedure kept my heart normal only 12 minutes. There was no miracle for the now congestive heart failure.

My daughter and a good friend were with me during the bulk of these continued medical emergencies. I was in an out of the hospital for several years. There were MED bills partially uncovered by insurance to pay. My husband could find no local employment for his skills and we were haunted by large MED bills and little money. So like the cartoon story of "Perils of Pauline," when things are bad, they can get worse. When he returned to his highly paid field at sea. The next emergency was a terrible shipboard fire where he survived while two others burned to death. He escaped the fire by crawling through through thick black smoke on his hands and knees until he found the exit route. He arrived in the states, but experienced trauma with psychiatric problems, PTSD, as experienced by men in battle zones. He awoke trembling and had anxiety for quite awhile. He also had the survivor "guilt feelings" from such an event.

The investigation of the shipboard fire placed revealed an improper procedure of a fuel transfer and a switch error. A superior made fatal decisions for those in the engine room. My husband was 2nd in command. His superior lost his license, and my husband had his license suspended two years. He could no longer find work in the industry or locally either, which exists on governement contracts. He could only work fill-in sailing and undocumented, so the bulk of survival here fell to me to keep out of bankruptcy.

My serious financial management skills meant I could turn pocket money into great investment funds. I haunted rundown house sales or distress sales. I prowled for deals and wrote the contracts for sales, leases and did much of the reconditions myself, or with cheap paid labor. My daughter helped me lay a floors which we still remember the killing heat and the gruelling work involved. I replaced floors, painted, papered, and did carpentry, caulking and everything but electrical work to get them saleable, rentable and negotiated deals that rebuilt a sound financial base. I also dealt with some crazies who rented and defaulted, so I did all my court collections. I spent 3 years taking law classes. So I possessed three professional licenses as a realtor, insurance broker and had paralegal certificate that was hard to acquire.

The innate drive and emotional need means I had to make my life secure. During those years I filed two personal injury lawsuits against pharmaceutical companies for damages to my heart and health. So all of these events occurred along the years of a marriage we both wanted intact. Unfortunately, he seems incapable to maintain an intimate sex life. Lawsuits along with proceeds from my deals from my deals meant life was better. He was always gone holidays and from 6/8 months of the year he worked on ships which is solitary and transient. The last intimacy with my husband was 1993.

In the meantime I bought a new 1999 boat, 25 foot cabin cruiser with kitchenette and microwave and wall to wall carpeting. I joined the Coast Guard Auxiliary, flotilla 57, passed the tests and physical skills required, and got the best boat training one can acquire. He was advised on things here by email and we always kept in touch. I have never discussed financial decions with him except to keep him advised of investments. I built a career as an officer and boat captain and with my boat and military crew operated Search and Rescue missions off the coastline. After 9/11, as a government facility, My crew and I kept vigil over the military fleet installations and bridges here. During my 7.5 year with the CG my husband was very peripheral to my life while I pursued training and skills. I enjoyed a lifestyle with others defending this port. I never introduced him, nor did he attend any of my military or social functions when he was in town. He was here when he was here. Our marriage existed, but it was partitioned between my career and going to a movie with him. We didn't share a bed so why share my life?

When I worked with my colleagues few knew I had a husband. No one would have asked me about it if they were aware of him. We were living together a short time each year, and holidays I was always alone as he was gone. He sailed when others wanted time off, as he took their billets, and had steady income. I had moved him into the guest room some time years before. Whether he came or went...we enjoyed time together when he was here. He could cook, shop and do what he wanted with his time but has always wanted to be with me. He made sure he deposited the bulk of his income in my account and I invested and turned it to more. The time bomb in my chest gave me a sense of living today, not about yesterday.

My lawsuits paid in 2002, along with the proceeds I bought a great house for cash with a swimming pool. It was bought with my separate funds so was no part of marital property. I built two internet businesses so I could work in design work here which was a sideline talent. My security does not rest on another with that, but he has always put me first in his way and works a lot of overtime to rebuild savings depleted through a year of his own illness in 2010. When I die he profits with the bulk of house proceeds, the rest to my daughter.

I heard a bunch of opinions on my home being separate property on the forum awhle back. As a woman who experienced insecurity, I believe any woman who puts it all in any man is a fool. There is a 50% chance of being a widow or divorced and that is not good odds. The 50 year old divorcees end up with nothing and survive marginally until they find another husband, unless they possess education and job skills to survive.
I made a decision to allow no strings over my life by another. Bitter? No.
Smartened up? Yes.

I think my 31 year marriage took some unusual turns. He is a complex man driven by his solitary nature and niches. I respect and love him. I wish it could have been different, but I am at peace where my journey led me to go most of the time. He has always loved me in what he is capable to do. He writes a few lines every day and calls every few days . He writes the kind of letters that one would think our marriage is pretty hot. He is in denial of whatever emotional problems have operated that he would refuse intimacy in his marriage. I know he has an addiction to m which depletes sexuality between a couple. He is not into porn and there are no women. I told him I don't care what he does sexually or with whom after some years. His life is more solitary than most with the type of work he does. I love him absolutely. Most of the time today I can say my life is quite wonderful. I am lucky to survive emotionally and physically what would have destroyed a few.

He had Cancer 2010, so there is no intimacy now possible. The time on our chances ran out. If a woman has a mans' love, I have his love. I think I learned a lot if the years I struggled with this marriage and the desire to make it whole. I don't agree a woman should "suck up bad treatment."
I would never stay in a marriage, as Forever endures, with a man who is basically immoral. She has my great sympathy. I admire her humor, spunk and desire to overcome the types of problems no woman should put up with in a marriage. That is born of need and optimism and she deserves far more than is her lot. A marriage begins in love and belief. The years and history are proof if that was a good decision.

Every woman has only the tools of her education, work skills. Her age and health situation does play into whether she can make a separate life. After 55, a woman faces subliminal job discrimination and health problems and needs to be covered with a health insurance plan. She is far from Social Security, which will keep no one in groceries. If there has been several marriages, there are no Mr. Rights out there! The economic climate today is the worst it has been since the the depression of 1930's. The new statistics show women and children in poverty. This econemy will destroy many who struggled in past and can no longer find work. Will we have more homeless among women, without skills, who put all their trusts in a marriage?

One in such a troubled marriage may need to hold fast and repair what is possible. Yet, no one should endure abuse and suffer a drunk to debase a woman verbally. We all know it is difficult to seek guidance. Here on this forum we share what we, ourselves, have experienced.

My friends tell me I have it all. There are times when I have to agree.
My animals are a joy, my grandchildren a pleasure and the day to day is a mix of work here and time in the pool or out on the boat. There are no conflicts and no one cramps my style. Sex is great....alone, no complications and my belief in the relationship I have with my husband is still positive.

Some petty conflicts on this forum are unfortunate with a few strong personalties who believe they know what is best for others. They can't get their own lives healed, but they presume to insist they have the Keys to the kingdom! That is quite delusional and wreaks some hurt to those who come here for solace and help and sometimes just to "cretch" about their lives.
Let's listen, and not judge. Let's give some advise without pressure, and let's not judge others for their faith or lack thereof.
Is that possible?

Last edited by 1aokgal; 4th August 2011 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 3rd August 2011, 07:41 PM   #724
1aokgal
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

Yes, there have been some pretty hurtful observations by posters here to others. Let's see....who had the CRUST to describe others who posted here, as Baroness and myself, as "Nebulous Christians?" Who describes me repeatedly as "materialistic" after my lifetime of hard work to gain financial security? Who questioned another poster as to whether she should even post on this forum, since she is not Christian? She was made to feel unwelcome and uncertain.

Let me describe someone who uses these negative dismissive, terms in her postings to others as a bully, insecure and an uneducated person, with little working background, who reads the book of the month to quote from as authority for her authenticity in viewpoints. That is NOT acceptable or cordial behavior on this forum.

Last edited by 1aokgal; 4th August 2011 at 03:33 AM.
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Old 3rd August 2011, 07:49 PM   #725
1aokgal
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

Forever...

I agree with one statement in your posting to Baroness. It is a sure thing this is truthful observation.

"You are not going to get what you want from him on your terms."

That is the absolute summation of the problem.
I think you have best intentions and kindness in your observation of the pain in Baroness postings.
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Old 3rd August 2011, 07:55 PM   #726
1aokgal
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

Dear Helen..

Your posting here is so important! It is the best of what transpires here that you identify her pain and support her decision in however she makes it to live through her problems day by day. You identify that there are no magic buttons for happiness to push.

You are right the ED is less a problem than his obvious withdrawal from communication and other physical reponses to her.

How valuable is that advise? It is gold that you care to tell her how you feel.
that's all we can do here. Try to help each other and that is the best a human being can give another......love and support.
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Old 3rd August 2011, 08:17 PM   #727
George
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

Well, the first thing to say I suppose is hello. A new name for you. I've been reading this thread now for a couple of months, but this is the first time I've got to the point where I've enough courage to contribute.

The second thing to say is thank you for the insightful Godly advice that has been provided, especially from Chosen, Forever, Chamomile, Raymond, Baroness and 1AokGal, and usually in a most erudite and eloquent way. I have learnt many many surprising things. One of these is that Christian women are interested in, in fact more than that, like, sex. This was news to me but I'll come back to that in a minute.

I will have been married for 19 years in September and I'm a husband who doesn't want sex with his wife. Or rather one who does, would love it, but has been turned off it for a variety of reasons. A message a few days ago talked about reasons for desire disappearing being unclear, but in my case I can articulate some reasons I think. The bible says it is better to marry than to burn with desire. In my case I'm married but I still burn with desire, and the only way out for me is m.

Let me try to explain. In 19 years of marriage I've had sex with my wife may be 10 times in total. Hard to believe I know, but it's true. On our honeymoon we tried, but it was painful for her, so we stopped, and didn't try again. The marriage was left unconsummated for just over 5 years. Not just unconsummated though, we didn't do anything else either. At that 5 year point, my wife was diagnosed with endometriosis and she went into hospital for an operation plus, for reasons i can no longer remember something called a vaginal stretch.

After she recovered I was hopeful that perhaps we could have sex. She had also started to talk about having children, so there was an incentive for her too, and we tried. It wasn't very good but at least it worked mechanically and from the few times we achieved it, we ended up with 2 children. After that, sex stopped completely - not permitted with children in the house. And then on the extremely rare occasions they were elsewhere, all sorts of constraints were introduced, no kissing, lights must be off, no seeing naked flesh, no oral sex either way, no contraception of any sort for "health" reasons, and as we were both afraid of a further pregnancy then that meant no intercourse. Touching was OK, and she would m me, but at least for me just this quickly became predictable and boring, so I ended up not wanting to do it at all. This created a bizarre situation, burning with desire, but turned off the whole thing with my wife.

I love her very much, she is a Christian woman and does a lot for other people, but I had certainly concluded a long time ago that sex for women or at least Christian women was a necessity, not a pleasure, and something to be avoided. She had certainly succeeded in convincing me it should be avoided. You have all convinced me it's not the norm.

Do you think there could be any way back from this at all?
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Old 3rd August 2011, 08:31 PM   #728
Helen_uk
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

Hi George and welcome to the forum.

I find your post very interesting .

It would appear from what you've said that either your wife has a fear of sex , which can result in the kind of condition you describe ( vaginismus ) or for some reason sees sex as " dirty " . Sex in marriage is supposed to be a joyous and giving way to show love, it seems for some reason your wife isn't seeing this.

What was her upbringing like ? How open is she to discussion about it ? Most problems of the kind you describe benefit from forms of sexual therapy, but I can understand that for a lot of people it isn't easy to go and talk to a complete stranger about . It really can help to deal with any psychological causes .

Well done you for working up the courage to talk about this AND for loving your wife regardless of her problem.
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Old 3rd August 2011, 08:33 PM   #729
chosen
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

HI and welcome
Christian women need to know(and many do) that sex is good and Godly and after all, God invented it! Its important for the building up and closeness in marriage. She also needs to know that not all women see it as something to be avoided. She says this because it is what SHE feels, but not because it is true.I guess its her excuse not to do anything about it.
I feel for you having only had sex a handful of times in 19 years?!?! I can understand totally why you were put off by what happened. Who wants to have sex with someone who isnt interested?
Your wife does seem to have extreem sexual repression. Maybe she was taught that sex was dirty and not to be enjoyed by women or something. Maybe she learnt this from her mother? Its very sad, but you could start with some good Christian counselling for your marriage. Have you ever told anyone about this, say a Christian male friend?Or even your pastor if you think it will help? If not maybe you need to, and ask them to pray for you as well.

I am sure that something can be done, but your wife does need to know that 10 times in 19 years just isnt right. I suspect that she wont want to do anything about it, but you need to tell her that you are very unhappy with the situation and you want to go to get help anyway.
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Old 3rd August 2011, 08:45 PM   #730
1aokgal
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

Dear George...

Welcome to the forum.

I encourage you to go back a few pages to read postings and you will realize this is a group of Christian women who like and appreciate SEX. All of us come from varied background and sexual experience, but every one here has the desire to enjoy a lusty sex life with a husband. There are no headaches in the group!

Your marriage is in serious trouble because rather than both getting this situation repaired you each deal with it in a different way. I'm sorry for you, who seems to be the "Refuser'', but both of you must have distress about these issues. She seems to have a lot of inhibitions and that kills the desire you would have.

Masturbation is a powerful drug that steals desire and performance from a marriage. There are also things that occurred in your marriage that may have made you feel that your overtures may be unwelcome or unwanted. You seem to have the impression that a Christian woman may love God, but can't be a good intimate partner. God loves sex and love between a man and woman which is everywhere in the Bible. That is a HOT book actually.

We let each other down when we don't make a super effort to love and be loved in our marriages. God planned it and we should study enough to be a good lover.

It is also true we are monogamous people, at least what is termed,"Serial monogamy." There is a statistical truth that there is a search for the ideal partner by men and women to such point that 50% of marriages fail. We move from partner to partner trying to make it work!

Sometime the fault rests not in our partner, but in our beliefs that everything should be effortless and perfect. A marriage takes work. It rests on you, as a Christian man, to rescue your marriage and try to reconstruct where problems began. Maybe you can find your way back to enjoy a full life.

You are missing great sweaty afternoons and a sweet afterglow.
Maybe you can work on those other "options" to divert energy back within the marriage?

It sounds as if there is little communicatio between the two of you and you have lost the best invention that God created, the ability to love your woman as he intended. Maybe we can work through some of your concerns and you can help us as well.
Great to have a male viewpoint!
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Old 4th August 2011, 12:33 AM   #731
George
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

Thank you Helen_Uk, Chosen and 1aokgal for such quick replies. You've given me a lot to think about already! I need to give a detailed reply to your questions and comments which I will do over the next day or so.

For now I'll just say that my wife and I generally have a pretty good relationship, and we do communicate, (although being a man I'm sure I could do better), but the question of sex is carefully avoided by both of us. I've realised from reading this thread that we are like a close brother and sister, but actually it shouldn't be like that, and I wish it wasn't. It's gone midnight here, so I'll write more soon.
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Old 4th August 2011, 01:05 AM   #732
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

George...

Some of us laughingly call that non-communicating about key issues, as "the elephant in the room. " A couple can have great camaraderie about all the mutual interests but get in serious trouble to discuss the sex problems. That is fraught with danger or hurt feelings.

I always regretted to bring it up with my husband. The subject turned into a "discussion, too heated." Then there was the silence of pouting and anger afterwards which spoiled how well we got along all the rest of the time. I got so I went longer to avoid the topic for that concern. Hence the pattern was set. No progress, no changes.
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Old 4th August 2011, 10:19 AM   #733
Helen_uk
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

You know, I often think that some people are inclined to think sex is like one of those bodily functions that it isn't nice to discuss... Whereas in reality it should be a wonderful loving act. In fact it's treated as worse when a problem crops up. Without being crude, if a problem with a bowel cropped up we would go see a doctor , but when our sex lives stop functioning we withdraw.

Sex in a loving , committed relationship gives an intimacy that we share with no-one else, when it isn't happening we lose something special. It is possible to have a warm and loving relationship without sex, but much depends on the reasons why it isn't happening , physical ill health of course can mean it isn't mechanically possible to have full intercourse, but that doesn't mean there aren't ways around it.... that can keep that feeling of intimacy.


Fear of pain , fear of unwanted pregnancy, fear of failure ... the key word is fear , fear can prevent us from experiencing what should be joyful lives. Speaking from experience here as I'm an agoraphobic who has to face my demons each time I want to go out of the house. Fear breeds avoidance and can be very difficult to overcome without professional help . I'm just wondering if this is the case with your wife ?
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Old 4th August 2011, 10:33 AM   #734
Chamomile
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1aokgal View Post

I do wish I had forced more terrible showdowns years ago with my H. and sure did many things in confrontation to no avail. I didn't want to go through another divorce or drag my child through that and I also believed he loved me and would never allow this to continue. Too bad I didn't get counselling.

I got it that he knew he had a problem before he married me! I think men with these problems select a woman who was marrid before, as maybe they think we ask less, expect less. That may be a possibility.

.
Hi 1aokgal xxx

What a life that you had lived in your recent post. You were a fighter! Someone can perhaps, write a novel and then make it into a movie based on your life history. Obviously, you would be the heroine, of course.

You're also very perceptive and I'd say that whatever your observations re. your h and his behaviour would be, it is probably not far off the mark. It is difficult to believe that your h had dismissed your concern and did not take you seriously knowing you are an intelligent and assertive woman on this site. Above all, you did so much for him and wasn't it about time he had paid you back well (not in a financial term x)? In front of your h, I wonder if he sees someone else, perhaps even a vulnerable and distraught "girl" that we do not see.

I would be surprised if men don't think what he would be getting himself in for before they marry a woman. Men think in terms of what they will gain and what they would lose etc whilst women may only be too happy disconnecting her "logic" router off, ready to give so much more for him when she is mesmerized by her love and her own blind belief as to this most beautiful man in her life. Women tend to believe love has no bounds particularly when we are deeply in love. We end up not setting the boundaries we would have kept otherwise. I personally don't think men are that simple, particularly bright, astute ones who may even have his check list before committing himself to a woman.

In my experience, my h never tried to fix his behaivour until I had tabled "divorce" and I did actually mean it and it wasn't going to affect my life too significantly. It wasn't even meant to be for a "shock-effect" but I was actually contemplating divorce seriously. And my life without constant heartaches and conflicts. He didn't like to be left and he suddenly started to make changes.

When your h says about making sure that your security is the utmost priority, what he means is, he has made sure that your security is ensured by his hard work and in return, he's making sure that you are not going to leave him for some of his other failures and you even love him more for his dedication and overlook other issues. It's all strings attached. You stayed and you love him more than ever. In a way, you fell for his well designed manipulation. He keeps giving you sweets e.g. security, regular love notes, to keep you a happy girl, who's busy making interesting projects when you are left playing alone. He knows what makes you swoon.

I personally don't think it matters when you see a therapist. There's no deadline for anyone to have a therapy.
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Old 4th August 2011, 02:28 PM   #735
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Re: Husband doesn't want sex

Hi Chamomile...

As always you are very perceptive about people and their motives. My husband is indeed a feeder and a caretaker. He is unbelievably unselfish in his concern for me and my welfare.

I am a "saver" and squirrel money aside and "make do" with things. My daughter told me," Please don"t tell me you bought the new appliance set with little sctratches (meaning cheaper.) I waited a long time to get a new set. My h. told me he was glad I didn't drag him to a distress sale on these. That is typical of a person who struggled to make ends meet. He gets his gratification as a man valued for his work ethic as he felt he had to live up to his fathers' standard.

The marriage was wonderfully happy for many years until his disastrous business failure and difficulties. I felt bad for him because it seems to be his main emphasis. When we joined a Christian church years ago, he did it for me because he is very much an Agnostic.

How are things going with the counselling? Are there things you are doing together to cut down on the collection?
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