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Old 30th December 2012, 05:11 PM   #391
Forever
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

He could have told you that he loved you too...but silence. One of you is going to be devestated either way...whether he stays with her (you) or comes back home (her).

Yes, he knows that his obligation is to his wife...but I wonder if you would want a man who simply feels "obligated" for conscience sake, rather than happy to be with you.

His perspective is coming from where is heart is...he feels more for her than he does for you, so that is where the problem lies. But he had no business ever starting any relationship with her in the first place so many years ago. When he felt a "pull" towards her in the early years, he should have stopped going over there...but he did not...because she was so flattering and bewitching. He knew he was a married man, but he pulled away from you more and more anyway, and you never knew why.

This is terrible.

I suppose that if you asked him who he prefers (setting his conscience aside)...who makes him happy and feeling and performing more the way a man wants to feel like, if he says "her"...then you have your answer.

If you "set him free" to have his happiness, would that result in him having a change of heart over time? If not, then you lost him long ago, and trying to hold on to him would only net unhappiness for both of you...I think the probablility of him coming back simply because it is the right thing to do is that he may even leave again and put you through a living hell all over.

By the way he acted for months before he left though, he is in love with her..."no man can serve two masters, he will grow to love the one and hate the other". That is a quote from the Bible which certainly has played out in him. He treated you with disdain for months before he left...no matter what you tried to do to win him...then he found an excuse to escape you.

The only thing he seems sorry about now is the fact that he obviously hurt you and your sons, but not sorry enough to repent...and the idea of hurting her seems to be of greater consideration to him.

This is tragic...he put you aside to get involved with her...even to the point of denying you as his own wife, sex and intimacy; would not try to communicate and work on the marriage; caused you to live without being involved in any aspect of his life; and then became hostile and distant...all because he is smitten with her.

He has been living a lie for years...living as a hyprocrite...going to church...probably from sheer habit or appearance, praying as if it meant anything, pretending to have ED, and treating you as if it was all your fault.

If I found out that my husband had been doing this for years behind my back, I think I would have to set him free...because he has been involved way too far over his head already with her for way too long, and I would feel like whatever I had to offer would never really be enough. He can then know that his "happiness" was taken at the cost of his innocent wife, sons, and his standing with God if that even really means anything to him. If he had put even half the effort in his own marriage rather than galavanting off to see her, you could have had something to work with.

Now I suppose you have to do some more waiting...if he sets up a time and place to talk. You will know what to say, you are always so diplomatic and classy. Perhaps when you look him in the face, you will already know if this is the man you still love...or if he just now represents a shadow of the man you loved in times past...and vice versa. Maybe there wont be much to really say.
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Old 30th December 2012, 05:56 PM   #392
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Unhappy Re: Advice and support needed please.

While I was typing my response to you, I was at the same time asking God if this conversation with your husband meant that your husband had already made his choice...but was he trying to figure out a way to tell you that it was not for the marriage (you) but was in fact against it. Was it over...is that why he is so sorry???

I do not know if it was mere coincidence, but right then, a very large Robin swooped towards my window and hit it with such force that it died. I ran outside and picked it up right away hoping that it would just be stunned and to keep it away from my dog...but felt it's heart stop.
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Old 30th December 2012, 06:02 PM   #393
WishfulThinking
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

I don't know Forever, This is probably why I feel unsettled. Part of this gave me hope, but I do realize all of this can be taken more than one way.

On the one hand, he made contact. Again saying he was sorry, he wasn't happy, he wasn't sleeping...but as you say, that could just be his conscience in part. He was more than willing to meet up with me...even seemed happy I'd suggested it..rather than saying it wouldn't be a good idea. He gave the only reason for dragging his heels as feeling obligated, not one of love for her, feeling he had already caused pain and devastation and baulking at doing it all over again. Was having trouble taking that final step.

Although yes, I realize I only get silence when I tell him I love him. That is troubling. He could be holding back until he gets home, feeling a hypocrite saying it whilst he remains with her...but I suppose I'm just clutching at straws there.

You're right too..it wouldn't work if he was only with me out of a sense of obligation, I wouldn't want that. I only meant that if he was only staying with her because he felt obliged to do so...nothing else...then his obligations to his wife and family were greater than that.

Hopefully we will meet up soon and I will have my answers. Then, one way or another I'll have to learn to move on with my life.
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Old 30th December 2012, 06:09 PM   #394
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Oh!
I've just seen your reply about the robin....is that signifying the marriage is dead too?

Although of course that will break my heart, I do think the sooner I know for sure the better, the not knowing is just as much torment...as you know.

But what about all the calls about wanting to leave her and come home.....?
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Old 30th December 2012, 06:11 PM   #395
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

When was the last time that you can remember him saying (and seeing that he meant it) that he loved you?
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Old 30th December 2012, 06:17 PM   #396
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WishfulThinking View Post
Oh!
I've just seen your reply about the robin....is that signifying the marriage is dead too?

Although of course that will break my heart, I do think the sooner I know for sure the better, the not knowing is just as much torment...as you know.

But what about all the calls about wanting to leave her and come home.....?
Could be mere coincidence. Him saying that IF he goes anywhere, it would be back to home is just a general statement...not a committment to do so. He does have a conscience...but is it strong enough to at least make the break?...and yes, you can take just about EVERYTHING he says two totally different ways...he is good at that.

I do not recall him saying that he actually wanted to leave her..just that he knows he made a mistake and if he goes anywhere, it would be home...can you refresh my memory? I do recall him saying he was not happy...but is that simply his conscience niggling at him relentlessly?
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Old 30th December 2012, 06:26 PM   #397
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forever View Post
When was the last time that you can remember him saying (and seeing that he meant it) that he loved you?
I can't...years ago. In the later years he used to always have a jokey way..saying 'je t'aime cherie', but that all stopped when eldest blew up and said 'will you stop that' so he did.

I know he told me he didn't love me anymore a few months ago...I was thinking...hoping, he'd had a change of heart with the way he's been with me, the things he's said since.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forever View Post
Could be mere coincidence. Him saying that IF he goes anywhere, it would be back to home is just a general statement...not a committment to do so. He does have a conscience...but is it strong enough to at least make the break?...and yes, you can take just about EVERYTHING he says two totally different ways...he is good at that.

I do not recall him saying that he actually wanted to leave her..just that he knows he made a mistake and if he goes anywhere, it would be home...can you refresh my memory? I do recall him saying he was not happy...but is that simply his conscience niggling at him relentlessly?
I don't need to refresh your memory...you have everything spot on.

I've not asked him too many direct questions, it looks like I should have done.

Oh, he did say he needed to 'get out of the situation' he was in and urgently, two weeks ago now though.
I also asked him if he was happy with her once..he said no. I then asked him if that was just because of 'the sin' and conscience and again I received an emphatic no. Last Sunday he said he needed a little more time..whatever that meant of course.

Last edited by WishfulThinking; 30th December 2012 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 30th December 2012, 06:48 PM   #398
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

I think when you have that talk, that you should put aside diplomacy and ask direct questions...it may be the only conversation that you have had in years that will net some truthful answers.

One of the things you simply must point out, is that while he convincing himself that he had some sort of "obligation" to that widow, he has in effect made a widow of his own wife. He went out of his way to "comfort" her while creating a lonely void in you...and has since left you in torment while being there for her.

No married man is obligated to trapse around giving succor to a unmarried woman who is busy flattering him. He should have ran like hell from her and left that for someone else to do.
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Old 30th December 2012, 06:58 PM   #399
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Why is he not "allowed" to tell you that he loves you too...even if it is just a renewed love and admiration for you...it should not have to be hidden...(you are his wife!), just because he is with the OW? If there were not something serious going on between them, at least in her own mind, then he could put her straight...and go ahead and risk her throwing him out. Why should it bother him if she got angry and threw him out...if he was honest about his feelings?

Yes, the double talk could mean that he needs to get out of having two women who want him...and choose one...and he needs more time to figure out how to tell the one he is rejecting.

Oh, and maybe he feels that he is not happy with her simply because of the unfinished business he still has with you.
So you see, his double talk, I would take no comfort in. It is not what he says that matters, but what he does that really counts.

Last edited by Forever; 30th December 2012 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 30th December 2012, 07:49 PM   #400
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

After reading your earlier posts I rang him...wanting to ask him for a few straight answers. Of course, no answer. I then went out to Mass & on my return, there was a message, saying he was returning my call. I've just tried to ring again...but again no answer. Not a good sign really.

Edit: OK, so he's just rung me back.
I told him I'd been thinking about the conversation we'd had earlier and there were a couple of things niggling at me. Firstly I said I wanted honest answers as I felt as though at least I deserved that, & he agreed. Good I said because you've been giving Pinocchio a run for his money lately! He just laughed.

I said you talked about obligations earlier but putting those aside for now, I want to ask you where your heart lies. He said, you know the answer to that, to which I said tell me anyway, and he said with you of course. Then he said why do you think I ring you every day? I said you haven't rung me since Christmas Day and when I ring you you don't answer...that's not true he said. (It is mostly..but not always I suppose.)

I then said I got the impression from the earlier call he was just trying to let me down gently, that he had no intention of coming home. I told him I'd spent everyday waiting for him to walk through the door but couldn't keep doing it, was I just clutching at straws? I needed to know the truth and begin to accept it, whatever that truth may be.

He told me he was coming home, but as he said before, he needed some time. I said that was a week ago now and he was still there. He said I can tell you it won't be for a couple of more weeks yet as I need to get myself out of the mess I've got myself into here. I said in that case I need you to keep in touch, ring me.

I said I'd still like to meet up with him this week..he said of course, he'd let me know.

So?

Last edited by WishfulThinking; 30th December 2012 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 30th December 2012, 08:53 PM   #401
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

I've read through the whole of this thread and one things stands out . Waiting. He always seems to leave you waiting . Why ? Why is he being allowed to call all the shots ?

I get that you're trying to be patient , I get that you are praying .

But I have to be honest here . By leaving you waiting he's putting the other woman first . He's ignoring your feelings in favour of not upsetting her. As his wife you should be priority , your feelings should be paramount . I'm not convinced that is the best way to go.

Just my opinion .
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Old 30th December 2012, 09:40 PM   #402
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Oh I know Helen, Thank you.

The way I am looking at it though is this. Our marriage was not what I thought it was for a long time..on the surface, apart from the last 4 months, everything was fine, he bought me gifts, rang me every day etc..was seemingly just a bit more worried and withdrawn than he usually was, but this all came about gradually, not suddenly, I hardly noticed.

This bombshell, and the gradual realization of the truth came as a great shock. When he walked out it was all "my fault" and the marriage was over.

If I hadn't been patient, even supportive and understanding, this turn around from him would never have come. In many ways I'm trying to look at it as a good thing, because if he comes back to me..for the reason of course that he wants to, we can renew our relationship and turn it into something good again. If this hadn't happened, if he'd just kept up this relationship 'on the side' without ever having the chance to actually live it, then our marriage would just have stayed the same or more likely become worse.

I'm waiting, letting him call the shots, as he's no good to me if he comes back to me with unfinished business, less than whole if you like. If a couple more weeks is all it takes to inject new life including love into our marriage again, then to me it's a price I'm willing to pay.

Hopefully though we will be able to talk more, openly and honestly too, in this interim period. There are already signs that this will be possible, with him now being more than willing to meet up with me...maybe few times before he finally comes home, and perhaps not just for 'those talks' but also to begin to discover each other again.
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Old 30th December 2012, 10:08 PM   #403
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Well THAT is what I call HOPE...the real thing! Even though he has done all this torment to you, it is true that he must have had to learn where his heart lies...and he stated that quite CLEARLY.

You will have talks and boundaries to discuss...maybe not everything all at once, but you have to start somewhere. Your first "talk" will be the biggest and should be done face to face rather than on the phone.

This will be a reawakening for both of you...I hope and pray it all goes well.

You are going to hear things that could absolutely tear you up...try not to be too "curious"...it wont help the future, but will instead keep you awake at night even with him there.

Okay, so two more weeks is IT.
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Old 30th December 2012, 10:25 PM   #404
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Hahaha! After what he has to go through and has to now put the OW through, you can bet he will never stray or try to get involved (without you too) with another woman! He has no idea what he even put YOU through. It may be that you will suffer "post trauma" symptoms...most do. However, I am hoping that wont happen...one way to minimize it is to get involved with doing things together on a regular basis...and do NOT ask questions of an "intimate" nature about the OW!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope you understand what I mean by "intimate"?
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Old 30th December 2012, 10:33 PM   #405
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forever View Post
Well THAT is what I call HOPE...the real thing! Even though he has done all this torment to you, it is true that he must have had to learn where his heart lies...and he stated that quite CLEARLY.

You will have talks and boundaries to discuss...maybe not everything all at once, but you have to start somewhere. Your first "talk" will be the biggest and should be done face to face rather than on the phone.

This will be a reawakening for both of you...I hope and pray it all goes well.

You are going to hear things that could absolutely tear you up...try not to be too "curious"...it wont help the future, but will instead keep you awake at night even with him there.

Okay, so two more weeks is IT.
I didn't actually put it in my post but I think he said. "at least" 2 more weeks. Time to get the prayer mat out again and hope it can be expedited.

Yes, real hope this time. I did think from his tone in previous conversations that he'd had a change of heart, but didn't want to push too early with direct questions.

Not sure just what is going on, maybe when we meet I can find out more. Maybe the son is a factor too. I did tell him tonight I knew the son wasn't there, he assured me he was, 'as God is my witness' along with his dog! I'll have to see how things go. The most important thing to me at the moment is where I stand and how he feels about me. Oh, and of course, he is (eventually) coming home.

As for what I will learn, I don't think there is anything he could tell me that I'm not prepared for..but of course I could be wrong.
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