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Old 27th October 2012, 12:14 AM   #1
WishfulThinking
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Advice and support needed please.

Hello,
Firstly this is in danger of becoming a very long post,there's so much I want to say, but I'll try to be as brief as I can.
We've been married for 26 years. Over the past few I've known things have changed, but I always thought it was other things getting in the way. The one thing I was sure of was my husband's love. I was so wrong. I should have known.

About 8 years ago the physical side of our relationship ended. He had diabetes and said the medication had caused him to stop having erections. I know he is a proud man and would be very embarrassed by this, wouldn't want to seek help, so I didn't push it. Now he was the always the tactile one, said it was important to tell each other we loved each other every day, always gave me a hug and a kiss. I've now realized I never once instigated any of this. I've even been guilty of pushing him away if I was in the middle of doing something or if there was some-one else around. This started to tail off, so much so that every now and then (& by this I mean once or twice a year) I'd tackle him about it. He always apologised, said he was thoughtless, had other things on his mind, he was too old for all that, he would try to do better, but he never did.

It all came to a head on our last wedding anniversary. We'd had a bad morning with problems with our youngest son (both our adult sons still live at home which isn't helping much at the moment either.) I then told him he'd forgotten our wedding anniversary and accused him of not caring. He admitted he didn't, he didn't love me and hadn't done for a long time. My world fell apart. He told me I was always complaining, always criticizing, always flouncing and I've realized he is right.

Thinking about it, we have spent many years in our own little bubbles. It had got to the stage where he is out all day, every day and most evenings. We haven't any friends in common. In fact I haven't any friends at all as I've spent the last decade since taking early retirement sitting at home. Neither have we really any interests in common. Our evenings had also got to point where he'd come in, get something to eat and then go off for the night to watch TV in a separate room. I foolishly thought it was just because he had different interests. Our bond was a common ethos on life and love and concern for each other, which obviously fell along the wayside, my doing I suspect. Neither have we been out together alone since our eldest son was a baby.

Anyway, after this revelation, I then did the usual, cried, begged, apologised, told him I loved him, promised I'd change, hoping each day I'd wake up from this nightmare and he'd tell me he didn't mean it, but it was as though a switch had been flipped. He became even more cold and distant, glared at me and moved away when I reached out to touch him. When I tried to talk to him he told me we just had to learn to tolerate each other the way lots of couples do.
I cried all day every day for weeks. I thought about him every moment of the day like a love sick teenager. (He's 70 by the way and I'm 10 years younger.) I still do. It's the first thing I think of when I wake up, the last thing at night and during all the wakeful hours in between.

From that moment on I resolved not to critcize, be pleasant and kind to him and I would say I've managed to keep this up. It's not hard. I love him so much and have come to learn to bite my tongue over what is essentially unimportant things. I also told him we needed to make time for each other and have twice so far succeeded in getting him to take me out for a drink. The first time it was to talk, away from the boys. I tried to tell him as gently as possible how he's distanced himself and always shut himself away when he came home. The second time I deliberatly had no agenda and we just went out for a drink.

I can't say either time was easy and he was ready to come away after an hour...he stays out much longer when he goes with his friends. It's been a few weeks now since we've done this & it's difficult to get him to do so. He's either out anyway or he's tired and just sleeps. However, one thing has changed. On the positive side, even though he still goes off alone during the day...even weekends, he has started to come into the living room to watch TV. I give him the remote and he happily watches his football or his strange documentaries, () & I haven't complained once. We still don't talk much as he's watching the TV, but the atmosphere is getting easier.

I'm trying to do more for him, offering him a drink when he comes in, cooking him his favourite meals etc. Things I should always have been doing but in the past it was always him doing things for me and I of course took it all for granted.
Sometimes I think we need to talk about things, then I think that will set us back if I'm bringing up the past, so I say nothing. Generally he is ok with me these days, but I still sometimes get the hardness and distance. Is there any hope do you think? Has anyone come through something similar? I long for him to love me again and take me in his arms. Is this possible? What can I do now?
Thanks for listening.

Last edited by WishfulThinking; 27th October 2012 at 07:58 PM. Reason: To separate the paragraphs: Sorry!
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Old 27th October 2012, 06:13 AM   #2
1aokgal
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Dear Wishfulthinking...

Welcome to the forum. Sorry you are so unhappy and to be honest with you..it sounds like a mess there! It sounds like it is Not a very nice way to live at this time in your lives, for either of you. Please, do break your posts into paragraphs for easier reading here. Otherwise, one may miss some of your thoughts.

It isn't enough to be "wishful thinking!" It is time to put your feminine power to work to change some of what is happening there! You are not the servant, to "cook him his favorite meals" and suffer through peaceful co-existence, while he is glued to the TV. You sit there with chaotic feelings about what you need/want desperately, which is to have a life again. You have passion which seethes in sad feelings. He escapes from you and the personal world he has in vicarious living through others' lives in TV watching.

That simply won't do!! Is he still your hero who lives inside the shell of the man sitting there?
Then, dear, you simply must shovel out all those cobwebs in the room and get down to being two touching human beings. You used one outing you had out with him, to carp at him, about your life and problems! NOT a good use of time out. The outing you had should have been to talk and learn to enjoy each other. Don't take nagging out somewhere..it never works. PS...do NOT bring up the past, that is ranting and nagging. Start fresh from today.

Now why are these adult "children" living at home? That simply sounds like the worst way to love your sons to continue parenting beyond all reason. They should be living their own lives, so you both can get on with living the years you have left! by your ages, these are not kids, but adults? Forgive me for saying this ..but, actuarially, do realize both of you have hit the danger years of mortality? If you are ever going to enjoy your lives, best you do it now, before it is too late! I am not poking in your biz....except you invited me inside your home, with the post here! You need to give the "boys" their walking papers! If they are employed, then a 30 days notice, is not unreasonable to launch them into the world. If they are NOT employed, best they are put on notice to find a JOB now, that carries them enough so they are not living off the two of you! Set a date for job time! There are jobs out there, and somebody needs to do them. Why not them?

You and your husband are at peak time! Your funds should be set aside for your golden years, which are dimmed plenty now by caring for your "kids," as they use the two of you! That notice is called "tough love" or plain old "independence day" for you and them too. Now..do these sons have a critical medical problem, that means they are not functioning as adults? You, parents, do them NO favor by providing a roof, when they should earn their own way. Of course, your husband must be darn depressed about this scenario! I urge you to put an end to that. They simply have to make their own way, unless they are under 21, or attending college. Hopefully, that is on their dollar, not yours. You simply do NOT owe adult kids a college education. They can work , take loans, or grants.

You are lonely..no friends? Join a gym and make friends there..get in better shape and healthier at same time. Rec centers have senior lady day trips and luncheons and shopping outings. Join a great knitting or quilting group at nearby shop. Ladies talk and you make friends. Join discussion groups. There are lists in the newspaper of clubs of all kinds for women. You need to get out..get more interesting, as you have something to talk about..make friends.

Now it is time to rediscover your mate. I suggest you unplug the TV. Don't sit there and argue, but buy a Scrabble game and set it up on the table. See who outwits whom. You talk, you laugh, you get smart! You actually enjoy each other. When have you walked together around the blocks where you live? Activity together is far more chummy and healthier than sedentary TV time. Go out and have a drink? That really isn't my cup of tea, but actually doing some activity as having friends over to play cards or for dinner, sounds a nice evening. You talk you enjoy each other again. You also might enjoy to join a REC center or activity club you both like. We have joint membership at a gym so we work out and swim there. There is bowling, biking, boating, walking, or going to music events together, as a play or museum or something like that. This is where you TALK to each other. We enjoy a good browse at the book store, talk and have a fancy coffee in the shop there. I don't think being lovers is out of the picture, even WITH his little problem, if you sparkle a bit, and show you care about him.

When is the last time you showered together or he helped you wash your hair in the kitchen sink? I do manicures for my husband and put on lotion on afterwards and hand massage. He sets up foot bath for me. He helps me shampoo my hair in the sink. Yes, he also helps me put my hair color on the back part a bit. No TV can do those things for you. You have to like each other and enjoy talking about the world, your thoughts about life, and your place in it. I could talk to my husband endlessly, because he is fascinating and smart. I wouldn't think that... if we didn't talk politics, religion, films and books and all manner of subjects. This feeds your soul and it will nourish your marriage. It is not too darn late to give him respect and love. You took, and he gave!

That got old. Now he resents you and he is angry, so he tunes you out. That is passive-aggressive behavior as he wants you to burn inside! That is for the years you tuned him out! That coldness is worse then yelling and screaming at someone. That cool demeanor really does hurt, doesn't it? I don't believe what he said because he is now punishing you. That is love, but twisted with anger. I doubt it is beyond the fixing here. No man would want to live "tolerating" his wife, until "death do you part!"

Tell him you regret the taking of his affection without returning it! Tell him he is a good man and you are glad he is there today! Tell him you will always love him..until hell freezes over! Tell him you hope he can forgive you ..even a little..how it is with you today. Don't grovel...just tell him. If you feel it, tell him so. Today might be the end of life for one of you. It is NOT too late to love.

A lovely couple many years married...she survived breast cancer some years back. He was healthy and youthful, at 75.....and she adored him. He fell down the steps at home last week. He hit his head on the floor at the bottom and was hospitalized. He died there this week from the brain injury. It hurts my heart to think of her terrible loss! There you have your dearest love in the next room! Do you know how many women YOUR age live on barely NO money. They have no man in the home. Take a survey, how many women your age would gladly take your man! They have NO man at all. These women are divorced and widowed. They live sadly, alone.

You have the whole world there. Each day you let life slip away, a memory at a time! You can reach out to your man anytime and show your love. Feel it, do it, while you can!

Last edited by 1aokgal; 27th October 2012 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 27th October 2012, 08:35 AM   #3
Raymond
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

I think you are doing the right thing WT and it seems to be slowly bearing fruit. I don't see what else you can do. I think it will improve slowly. You have been through a lot of soul searching and it seems to me you are on the right track now. Well done.
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Old 27th October 2012, 07:55 PM   #4
WishfulThinking
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Hello,
Thanks for the replies. You've given me an awful lot to think about and I'm grateful

I must appear to be a truly awful, cold, selfish person. I hope I'm not. I have however always found it difficult to express/show my feelings. My family were rarely outwardly affectionate & I cannot remember my parents telling me they loved me. I suppose I was taught it "doesn't do" to show your feelings. It seems incomprehensible writing this down that I'm still afflicetd by this, especially given that I've now lived with my husband for longer than I ever did with my parents. My husband did understand this about me but I really do wish I could have brought myself to be more open with him. I'm trying now, but must admit to finding it really difficult.

Yes, my boys are still at home. I described them as adult for brevity really, in that they no longer need to rely on us to be there to look after them. The eldest is old enough to have branched out on his own. He works full time but is also in training for a better job which of course he is funding himself, but he would not be able to do this if he left home. It will be a couple more years then we will encourage him to become more independent if he doesn't show signs himself. The youngest is only just 18, and still a bit too immature and not finacially independent enough to leave home just yet. He works but only part-time, although he takes extra hours when available. It's just of course, with them being here, it cuts down the quality time my husband & I can spend together.

Lots of good advice there. I have already started by joining an exercise class. Just a gentle one for now. I'm limited with walking etc at the moment as I have arthritis & can't walk for long distances or lengths of time. Also partly due to just pottering around at home for all these years. I know I'll feel guilty about slowing him down or holding him back if we went out and about together so am loathe to suggest it. Hopefully that will improve though if I make more effort. I'm also looking into voluntary work to help me fill my time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1aokgal View Post
That got old. Now he resents you and he is angry, so he tunes you out. That is passive-aggressive behavior as he wants you to burn inside! That is for the years you tuned him out! That coldness is worse then yelling and screaming at someone. That cool demeanor really does hurt, doesn't it? I don't believe what he said because he is now punishing you. That is love, but twisted with anger. I doubt it is beyond the fixing here. No man would want to live "tolerating" his wife, until "death do you part!"
I do think he really believes the love has gone (on his part anyway) but I hope you are right. It was anger and resentment I suppose about him not being home enough and never taking me out that caused me to tune him out & act the way I did. I just didn't see it and so wish it hadn't gone on so long. Yes, you're right though, it really does hurt, more than I would ever have believed possible but I do deserve it.


Quote:
Tell him you regret the taking of his affection without returning it! Tell him he is a good man and you are glad he is there today! Tell him you will always love him..until hell freezes over! Tell him you hope he can forgive you ..even a little..how it is with you today. Don't grovel...just tell him. If you feel it, tell him so. Today might be the end of life for one of you. It is NOT too late to love.
I have done all this, when I spoke to him shortly after the bombshell. It was simply met with a shrug. Should I do it more often do you think? I'm conscious too that time is precious so I'm torn between being patient and trying to show him how much he means to me or telling him about how I feel and risk pushing him further away as he feels he can't return those feelings. He moves away every time I try to touch him, even just gently on passing. I've been saying something positive to him every day, thanking him for little things he does etc, trying to let him know how much I appreciate him.

Quote:
You have the whole world there. Each day you let life slip away, a memory at a time! You can reach out to your man anytime and show your love. Feel it, do it, while you can!
Yes, you're right, I do have everything right here. I'm just so terrified of losing it and hope and pray I don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I think you are doing the right thing WT and it seems to be slowly bearing fruit. I don't see what else you can do. I think it will improve slowly. You have been through a lot of soul searching and it seems to me you are on the right track now. Well done.
Thank you, I do hope so. I know I only have myself to blame and in many ways, as much as it hurt, and still does, I am glad this has happened. It's the only way to realize how I must have been behaving and just how much he really means to me.
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Old 27th October 2012, 09:30 PM   #5
chosen
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

wishful thinking, I think that you are making all the right moves. All these years he has spoiled you and done things for you, and as you said yourself you took it all for granted. Ths ended up with him loosing his love for you, but I believe that with time and patience it will carry on improving and be good again. Dont get impatient and carry on the good work.

As for the boys, they are barely adults and telling them to leave isnt an option unless they earn very good money. If you live in the uk it is practically impossible for young adults to be able to afford the very expensive rents that are charging, which is why so many cant leave home till they are much older. Plus it is their home as much as it is yours at this time. You had then very late in life, and that is why they are still with you now.

I have a good book called 'The proper care and feeding of husbands' By laura Schlessinger. Very challenging but very helpful also. It may help you to carry on what you are doing and give you some new ideas.
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Old 28th October 2012, 12:31 AM   #6
1aokgal
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Dear Wishful...

You are your own harshest critic, so we don't need to judge you for where you are in life! We share here what we learn along the way. Mistakes have been made. Water dropping steady on a rock will wear the rock away. The truth of your feelings for your husband, expressed daily, will seep through to this man.

When he goes to leave the house next time out late, as you said, ask him first if he might stay home with you. Please, not to stare at the empty box, but engage with him. How about a board game for family...at least, you will talk together. I heard one man filed for divorce from his wife of 60 years to marry a woman his grandaughters' age. He met her at the corner pub. A man may be out trolling when he feels unwelcome at home. Is alcohol a component on his outings? That is for sure his escape to go out. You could also ask him if he might like company, and go with him..if he says yes.

Wishful, you are not a child but a woman with a man you say you still love. If you cannot bare your soul to him now, and instead you play coy, while you are not "affectionate," then you will not salvage this marriage. You will be a lonely woman wondering always where the life went! You have to continue to be consistent and you can say,"I love you" every time he leaves the house. My family does that every time we speak on phone or every time we leave the house. A smile when he comes in the door shows him he is welcome and it is a warm thing to feel appreciated.

Good you joined a gym..best thing to get some exercise for your health and increase heart rate.
Arthritis requires movement and some weight bearing exercise as well. What you don't use, you will lose. Seniors become immobile when they don't stay active and there are many classes for older women. My friend just bought a great treadmill with TV screen. She can program it for world views like she walks around Paris. I get straight walking with my German Shepherd on outings! Keeping active retains youthful vigor and contentment. I bet that are a lot of activities available to you if you seek them out. Great if you connect with another woman who wants to go. Reach out and you will find a pal and have a brighter step.

It seems with the sons older there is no reason at all the two of you can not go day tripping away to pleasant outings. We take off for lunch and walk in a city an hour away with historical area. We browse the shops, see scenery and have lunch on the waterside and a very nice day. Check your area or such day trips and tell him you'd enjoy going with him. Plan the trips like you would go to Venice to get some interesting scenery. We stop at all the best spots and it costs little more than a tank of gas and a lunch. You can also pack a lovely lunch and stop at park areas in warm weather. This can be a very nice time for you both...a mini vacation.

If he is a reader select a book he might like sometimes or some treat he would enjoy. Thoughtful gestures should be a regular part of your marriage. If he shrugs when you say you love him, as he goes out the door, it will still give him a warm feeling. It will also become habit for you to have feelings again. Yours is not the only marriage that can hit a wall! You can work through this by being consistent about your intent. Just continue to reach out. If he keeps his space...that is alright, but it doesn't mean you can't tell him your feelings. There is no scorecard that says it is his turn, or your turn.

Last edited by 1aokgal; 28th October 2012 at 04:16 AM.
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Old 29th October 2012, 12:52 PM   #7
WishfulThinking
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Chosen, Thank you. I have ordered a copy of the book you recommended. Yes, I'm in the UK, I suppose one or two things in my posts were a bit of a giveaway.

1aokgirl, I really appreciate your time and input, but I must admit I am struggling a little. Now that I've backed off with any 'relationship' discussions and have tried to think before I speak on other matters, things seem to be back to 'normal' with us...whatever that is. I suspect he has 'tolerated' me for years now and fear we could go on like this for years, but of course I want more, I want what we had back, but see the door firmly closed, locked and bolted at the moment.

He has always valued his alone time. I knew this before we married. He could never understand why some women felt the need to be clingy, expect their husbands to remain by their side whilst out at social gatherings and rely on them to keep them entertained. I didn't mind at the time as he always showed me plenty of love and affection and gave me plenty of attention in other ways. He would have felt trapped and claustrophobic if I had tried to reign him in and it would have destroyed our relationship. By giving him his freedom it brought him closer to me.

When we married he wasn't working and it was me who supported the family. He worked hard to retrain, and later juggled this with child care, in order to build a new career. During our marriage there have also been fairly long periods where he worked away from home, leaving me alone with the children during the week. At weekends he would often take the boys out on outings to give me a break and allow me to catch up with the work I needed to do for my own job.

I took early retirement about 10 years ago and concentrated on home and family. He semi-retired about 5 years ago, but still works two days a week. He then gradually found other things to do to fill his time. One example, he joined an over 60's club in a town about 30 miles away close to where he used to work. Of course I didn't qualify to join with him then, both because of my age and also it is male dominated. It is part of his 'exclusive territory' so he really wouldn't want me to try to latch on to him there now, even if I could. It is open 7 days a week so he pops in often. He has also been a member of a local card league for years and this involved him going out one evening a week. Yes, this is pub based, male orientated and alcohol is involved, although I don't think the alcohol is an issue.

This was of course fine. Initially too, my eldest son was also involved so they used to go out together, although my eldest has since dropped out. In the last couple of years my youngest has joined too. (It is legal here for a 16 year old to go into a pub, but not to drink until 18). This one evening a week has drifted into two, the second being more of a social/practice night. My youngest son generally goes to both with him.

My husband and both of the boys are avid football fans and many weekends are spent travelling to and attending football matches. Long distances and tiring travel are involved. Even if I wanted to go with them I couldn't as I wouldn't be able to purchase a ticket. (They have season tickets) It's not the sort of place/activity that either he or the boys would be happy for me to join in with them.

When we first got married he liked to go off alone to local 'boot fairs'. This was an occassional activity but has now become every 'free' Saturday and Sunday he has available. He always preferred to be alone, to wander and look at what he wanted to look at, not having to be restrained by me wanting to look at other things. He now gets up very early & is off. He is gone for most of the day. When he comes home he is exhausted and sleeps for a while..until of course it is time for the football to come on the TV!

I feel too that events are conspiring against me. This year he has been on 3 vacations without me. One a physical activity week arranged by his over 60's club. The other two, abroad, a last minute paid for place was offered to him as some-one else had dropped out. I also am feeling sad because recently someone has offered my youngest son a free place on a trip to Lourdes next Easter and has also asked my husband to go with them. They of course have jumped at it. I should be happy for them, but for the first time I'm not. I feel this is excluding and splitting our family at this holiday time.

About 18 months ago one of the members of the card team was widowed, and is of course lonely. He has since latched onto my husband as a friend and consistently rings him twice a week to meet up and go for a drink. My husband never says no so that brings his evenings out to four a week.

In addition to all this, we used a small inheritence some years back to buy a small property in France for holidays. This has now become a drain on our finances and is on the market, but nothing is selling at the moment. A couple of years ago the whole house was badly flooded in storms. Although we had insurance which covered most of the costs, the time and effort to bring it back to where it was has been phenomenal. It was at this point my husband stopped me going. He didn't want me to see the mess it had made. He started to take others with him who could help with the practical aspects, plumbing, electrics, plastering etc. They worked hard but ultimately it became a jaunt for 'the boys'. He is still going for a couple of days every week or every couple of weeks to keep on top of things. The widower, who is also a bit of a handyman, always seems to go with him these days too.

So...for one reason or another, he never seems to have the time for anything else. It's difficult to ask him to stay at home in the evenings instead of going out as he will be letting others down. Most of his daytime activities are inflexible too. I've always bought him little gifts. If he shows interest in a particular book for example I have always quietly ordered it for him and presented it to him when he comes home.

This morning he has a hospital appointment for tests. I wanted to take him. I got everything ready last night and was up early this morning to take him. He wouldn't let me, insisted he was going to drive himself. He always does get himself worked up about things and says he needs to be alone to think things through. He was of course quite curt. Told me he was a big boy now and needed to get on with it himself.

Yes, I do feel that I'm a fool for not seeing this gradual pulling away earlier and do think I handled it badly by sometimes taking my frustration out on him by being offhand and sharp with him at times rather than telling him how I felt. I really am at a loss at what to do. I really don't think he cares enough to consider how I've been feeling or make the extra effort to spend time doing things with me. I will try though to do as you suggest and say those three little words.

Last edited by WishfulThinking; 29th October 2012 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 31st October 2012, 02:37 AM   #8
1aokgal
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Dear Wishful,

The "back to normal" seems to be, to ignore you in any way possible while he lives life pretty much as a single man. I cannot imagine why this has been allowed to go on to the point he takes off with the guys while you vegetate in the house! I do think you must develop social networks for yourself, but I would really feel you must NOT stay in the background about how you feel.

Too bad that place in France is not sold! I would tell you to take half the funds and go with a friend on a nice vacation or cruise...without him! Since he was so independent, he didn't need your help with his health concerns, I wouldn't volunteer your services there again. That was a way to show you he doesn't need you! Some attitude he's got!

You might also talk to your son about the Easter trip. That should be a family activity and not that you are just cut out. The football outings would be nothing many women would be interested in either, so if that is the game plan you should make your own plans. I'd put a crimp in the guys big weekends at the France place. Time you packed your bag and indicated there are things you would like to do there too. If they are fixing things..let them. Why can't you take a day trip into the city or sight seeing tour and arrange they pick you up later? You don't have to be the "duty doormat".

It also will give you a chance to see if there is actually work going on or that is an excuse to go party while there. I think as you do, they cover for the good times, and I'd put a crimp in that. Sometimes a woman needs to declare war and take a firm and complete stand there.
You are being too passive and too willing to allow this complete disregard.

Maybe time you called a family meeting! You don't talk to Mr. Wonderful alone, who blows you off, you tell all of them at the same time that it is not pleasant for you to spend weekends alone. Is there only one car? If so, you should have it part of the week to go to things you like. Yes, without him...but not that he goes and leaves youto vegetate alone. You make the slection! You really have to make a point here.

Your sons will treat their wives in future just as you are being treated, with disregard and indifference. If you don't make a point of this, he figures you don't care. Quite amazing that he joined the social club (which generally is more for single or widowed men), not men who are married and leave a wife out of everything! His choice of a pal, who is widower, also says he doesn't have any plan to let you in his life! The problems seems, that you hold no personal power here.
If he is ignorant of his duty to spend time as a partner with his wife, then you need to bring that forward and let him know how you truly feel.

It seems to me you need some joint counselling because you are being treated as an invisible person. Maybe you make an appointment for yourself first to develop some self confidence to confront this man? You are being bullied and shoved into a small segment of his life. He influences the sons, and their disregard is pretty much the same. Dear Lady, my heart goes out to you and it is no wonder yu are very upset. It is not enough to co-exist in pained silence in your home. That is a killing atmosphere.
You simply must be heard and not ignored.


Are your husbands' health problems serious?

Last edited by 1aokgal; 31st October 2012 at 05:02 AM.
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Old 3rd November 2012, 07:30 PM   #9
WishfulThinking
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

1aokgal, Thank you.

I must admit I was going to come back and highly edit my previous post. It is all true, but I did feel I was perhaps having a bit of a rant. I must share some of the responsibility for this, I think I was always too busy to be too concerned in the beginning and by the time I perhaps even subconsciously realized what had been happening I reacted badly and pushed him further away.

Things are slightly better between us as I'm trying to keep calm and ignore any signs of irritation he shows towards me, but I do feel that we are almost like aquaitances these days. He really has no regard for me at all anymore. Until he told me how he felt he seemed to cover it up somewhat but now his feelings towards me are apparant when we are alone together.

I had asked him this week if he could put Thursday aside and we would go out for the day and he was fairly amenable about this. I had planned to visit a town about 40 miles away, wander around the market and a few historical churches and then have lunch by the river.

On Wednesday evening we had a telephone call to say a distant relative of his (in her nineties) had been taken into hospital and was very very poorly. He has only met her a couple of times & I haven't met her at all, but her relatives all live in Ireland and America so she has no close family to visit her here. To be fair to him he did remember we were supposed to be going out the next day, but on the other hand I'm sure neither of us would have settled or enjoyed the day, especially if something happened to her so I told him it was only right he went to see her instead.

I know perhaps there is an argument for just a change of plan and for me to go with him, but I felt the circumstances and the long 10 hour round trip journey via train, tube and bus would put a further strain on our relationship. So again...the best laid plans of mice and men.....!

As for his health problems, no they don't seem to be serious and of course I'm hoping they're not, but he does worry and always fears the worst in any situation like this. We will know more when the results are back.

He is intrinsically a good and caring man. I can only imagine he must have been feeling like this for years for him to have built his own life without me and care about me so little. I think he has been suffering in silence for a long time, just carrying out his family duties as best he can.

He has well and truly shut me out emotionally and I don't think he has any intention of letting me back in again.
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Old 4th November 2012, 12:17 AM   #10
1aokgal
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Dear Wishful...

You can rant here and we are OK with that. Better to spit it out then carry bitterness around. It is sad, the state of affairs that brought you both to this point. It is quite terrible for him to "tolerate" another as you feel he does with you. The iciness is worse than a good argument that can clear the air. I would say, " be consistent in your dealings with him" and let him know that you care deeply.

Your "almost got there" day mini-trip this week really sounded nice! The day trips can be so cheerful to get away and have a lovely lunch on the water. Not a time to talk about past or problems but let the conversation soar where it will. a tank or gas and an escape for two of you can sure get some fresh air in the stagnant relationship. If you like to visit galley work or little craft shops that is really nice. We also went to aeronautics museum and other places that a man likes.
You will find these little trips great adventures and should put it firmly on your day calendar. While you had good reason cal it off this time make it a regualr date even if it is every 2 weeks on the schedule. It breaks down to quality time.

We even visited historic graveyards on a day trips with many Civil war figures and prominent families and beautiful stones. I got some fine photos . That makes an interesting trip and creates lively discussion. Do not be discouraged, because this did not happen overnight, and the cool climate is not altered over night.

I hope you have interesting hobbies that nourish the soul. Since I have not decided what I shall be when I grow up, I have many hobbies/activities that does not include my husband. I oil paint with passion, sew with intensity, knit when winter is coming, cook nice dishes, china paint, play the piano and take care of my animals/walk the dog and get to the gym.

Summers is swimming, boating, hiking and getting in the day trips to galleries, museums, and go to lunch and movie with a friend. A interesting and full life leaves no room for melancholy or regret, so make a life where you control the emotional climate and don't depend on another.

Last edited by 1aokgal; 4th November 2012 at 05:48 AM.
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Old 6th November 2012, 01:59 PM   #11
WishfulThinking
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Hello 1aokgal,

Well this morning, I know it's taken me a long time to do it, but I took your advice and finally told him I loved him as he left for work.

He shot back with the most awful look, I'm still trying to work it out. Anger, disgust, disapproval? It was certainly a look which told me I'd overstepped the mark...crossed the line.

He left and returned about 5 minutes later, only to say his car was still playing up and he needed to take mine. As he left the second time he didn't respond to my "Good Morning, God Bless" as he usually does, even if it's usually begrudgingly.

I don't know if we've now taken a backwards step.

Yesterday he also used my car. (His was supposedly "fixed" last night.) When I asked him where he was going (nicely, not accussingly) he just glared at me as if I had no right to ask.

Later in the day, when he'd returned I gently slipped into the conversation (I didn't complain, just mentionned in passing as an event of the day) that of course I hadn't been able to get to my fitness class that day as I hadn't had my car, his response was simply a 'yes' the tone of voice implying he knew that & it was as it should be, he mattered and I didn't.

The more I try and the more I do for him, the more I see how selfish he's become. He takes everything in his stride, as if it's his right and his total disregard for me is becoming more and more obvious. I receive nothing in return. Yesterday I trapped my foot in a doorway and really hurt it. He just sat there...didn't ask how I was or offer to help, just ignored it. It is becoming harder and harder for me as each day passes.

Don't get me wrong, the iciness isn't always there, but there's no warmth either. We can talk about day to day things, things that don't really matter quite amenably, but anything else seems to be a no go area.

At the weekend I also told him what I had planned for last Thursday, partly as I was intending to re-arrange perhaps next week. It's a place he's never been. His response was relief, he was glad we didn't go as he wouldn't have liked it anyway. 'Some-one' had told him there was nothing there!

I can only think after the look I got today that either he really has developed into a cranky selfish 'old man' or I have hurt him so badly in the past...and so long ago, that it's become totally deep rooted. He really doesn't want or have any intention of re-kindling anything.

We've rarely had a row. He's always been one to avoid conflict, and has always been very easy going. If you like he's always gone along with me, decisions about the house, holidays etc etc he's always just left to me and always seemed quite happy to do so. Don't get me wrong, I don't think I've been bossy or domineering, it's just that when I've said shall we do this?, he's always said that's fine with me, I'll leave it up to you.

I hear what you're saying about developing my own interests and know you are right. I used to have hobbies...and friends...but they have all fallen by the wayside. I feel so despondant at the moment I can't conjure up anything I might be interested in but do understand that ultimately my happiness and fulfillment is my own responsibility.

I just don't know where to go from here. Do I try to talk about 'us' or my feelings for him, and if so what do I say? Do I apologise again? Or do I just leave that aside for a while and just try to carry on being pleasant and show him I care by the way I treat him?
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Old 6th November 2012, 05:07 PM   #12
WishfulThinking
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Ok, there's something else I haven't previously mentionned. Something that's been eating away at me but is difficult to talk about. Virtually no-one apart from our immediate family know.

The thing is, my husband has been married before. I was not instumental in the marriage break up in any way neither did I stand in the way of any hope of reconciliation. He was awaiting the decree absolute when we met, his wife had left and was living with another man who she married as soon as the divorce came through, long before we married.

The problem is, we are both Catholics. He married his first wife in the Church so was not free to marry in the Church again. We had a civil ceremony. So in effect, ours is a marriage that God hasn't blessed. My husband attends Mass every Sunday, sometimes more often, and prays every day. I must admit I have lapsed somewhat and no longer go to Church, I haven't been for years I'm ashamed to say.

It took a lot of soul searching on his part to start again with me. For my part, I never felt as though we were going against God's will. That God wanted to punish my husband for the rest of his life for a situation that was totally out of his control, he did everything he could at the time to keep his marriage together. I did pray before we married, that we could find the right solution, but I suppose you could also always argue I wilfully went my own way.

Now I wonder if the situation we find ourselves in is some sort of natural justice, a kind of retribution. Can I really pray to God to help me in a marriage that we didn't commit to with his blessing?

In my heart I've always believed God understood and feel he has been good to us over the years. Now though I think perhaps I am doing the wrong thing to turn to Him for help in a situation he doesn't approve of.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
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Old 6th November 2012, 06:54 PM   #13
Raymond
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

I disagree with you personally WT. I don't believe God is like that.

If God convicts us of anything it will always be obvious what to do. I think this condemnation is coming from somewhere else not God in my opinion. If it niggles away at you and you cannot do anything about it, it is not from God.

It sounds to me like his first wife was unfaithful judging by the speed that she married her lover. I would not reproach yourself. He sounds like the innocent party to me. I think you are being a bit legalistic about ceremonies. God can bless any marriage anywhere if it is done in faith in his sight. Relationship with God is far more important than religion. This is from someone who was raised in the Catholic faith. A christian is someone who believes and receives Christ receiving that forgiveness that He paid for on the cross.

That's my pennyworth. Don't let condemnation come in because of ceremonies. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus full stop.
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Old 6th November 2012, 07:55 PM   #14
1aokgal
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Dear Wishful..

I am with you to feel pretty purturbed at the mans' being such a cold fish! That is the barrier he has erected around his heart. All that fire and ice is a defense mechanism to protect himself from hurt. I don't want you to apologize or eat crow. OK? Do it for me...start from today, because you don't get a redo on yesterdays.

So he gave you the look when you said you loved him! So what??? Unless you are a qualified mind reader you really don't know what are his thoughts! Maybe he thinks you should shut-up so he doesn't feel guilty that he is such a cold fish? Maybe he is angry that you try, and he does not! We don't know that, but you continue, when appropriate, to wish him a good day and express you care.

Here is what you don't do..lie down and be his big door mat. You getting to the spa is important. You can drop him off where he needs to go ...OR he can take a bus, walk, but your car on your days, is not an option for him to infringe!! The big cat is out all the time. You don't need to feel trapped in the house and put upon! You don't need to be, or play the victoim! You speak up and let him know that the day you select.. I'd say at least 2X week, are yours to get to gym, lunch with friend or relative, or movie alone. He is NOT to borrow your car! He can arrange other transportation. I can't tell you how many times I get to movie and take myself to lunch after, and enjoy doing that.

My friend is busy, my daughter works and has her schedule, but I treat ME to some ventilated brain time outside the home. When I come home after my outing, I see things in new light. Tha vacuuming chore and things need doing, seems easier because I got a mini-break.

How about pets? You don't have little buddy to talk to there? A cat is a great pal and is pretty care free. One of mine is my bed buddy. When the light goes off he comes right up to get under the "blankie" with me and puts me soon to sleep with the purrs. I have to give him a little stroking and we are fast asleep. He then goes to the foot of the bed, where he curls until morning, when he comes under the warm blanket. I can't tell you how precious are my animals. He is my sole bedroom buddy and the other few cats sleep in the rest of the house but he is with me.

Casper gets my love! Studies show those with animals have lower BP readings and easier lives. You owe yourself some human friends too. I urge you to take an active part in locating a pal. There are knit, crotchet, and quilting, painting, crafting ladies in every small shop, who will meet during the week. We have an activity calendar of clubs and groups printed 1X weekly in the newspaper. Locate a group of something you like. If you like volunterring at local hospital or such that is an option too.

Let's do talk about your religion. I was born Catholic into very rigid family and spent years in parochial school. I was married young in church to a non-catholic (who converted). He gave me a miserable life until I divorced him. You can have a 2nd marriage in the church outside the altar rail, but still in the cath. church. My present husband and I were both catholic as kids. We later joined a protestant church for various reasons. I figured no religion tells me the number of children and Cath. church made me feel badly, as I could not take communion with my kids, because I was married before. They took my money, but wouldn't allow me no take a sacrament with my family! So I left. That was a right decision for me.

I personally don't think it matters where one worships. I do think that religion has nothing to do with the state of your marriage today or the fact he was married before. It sounds as if she cheated on him and married another quickly. So he may feel women can't be trusted. Maybe he is really lousy in bed and that is part of his lack of charm today....that he won't put himself out for another! You are together a long time. You are there to stay, so best you make it better for you. It is up to you to alter how you are being treated.
PS..you think too much! God is not taking aim at you or out to get you! Maybe you are your worst enemy because you won't stand up for yourself?

It sounds to me that he is a self satisfied, narcisscist who is living his life as if you don't exist. Problem is, you let him get away with that!! I'd change that, in your place.

He defers to you in the choices. He won't put himself out to have an opinion, which shows he could care less. That is why he lets you make all the decisions. I don't think he resents that, because I think he doesn't want to put his precious self invested in these mundane matters.

I agree you should be kind, courteous, and caring, but don't be his "gopher" on all things. Don't wait on him or serve him and let meals be made but if you want to go out somewhere and he doesn't want to go..you go. He can shop for groceries at times and do things that need doing and help or do things in the kitchen. You have a right to expect him to do these things!. You can also say you want to go see a movie on wednesday night and How about he takes you and goes with? How about you make a plan to go to the next city for a lunch? There is no option for him, that he takes YOUR car for his activies, Dear. He can do without or rent a car. You spend time getting OUT there away from the house. You also stop being a victim and start taking an active part in making YOU happier.

If you ae despondent, it is your choice. I refuse to let anyone get to me or how good I feel about my life, who I am. Quit putting this on him. If you are miserable..you choose that. Get up and make yourself active. I have one friend so bad off she is now going places in a wheelchair. When that is your lot in life than you can choose to feel sorry for yourself.

I am not telling you anything I don't do myself. I depend on no other person, but I do work at friendships, and things that make me happy. When I want a birthday gift..I will buy it. Or he can go with me, when I buy it, because I won't put responsibility for my happiness on another. He works harder now, to select something, because he knows I will do that.

You are worth more than the treatment you are getting there! Put yourself on your calendar. I put tuesday, as afternoon movie, and lunch day. I book myself special time. Today, after I went to vote, I spent an hour browsing the knit books at a local shop and bought one I like. It was a pleasant break. You do those things for yourself! You need your gym time and it will make you happier and feel better. PS Make sure you keep YOUR car keys where YOU have them!

Forgive my bluntness, but you need a SELF KICK to get yourself busy being a psoitive thinker.

Last edited by 1aokgal; 6th November 2012 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 6th November 2012, 11:46 PM   #15
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Hi I do wonder if this husband has someone else?
If he's the type who would want to avoid any conflict, he probably sets out to do what he needs to do behind wife's back. (I have had my own experience with this sort of person in my life)

It seems he wants to keep his nice house e.g. status quo and his emotional needs are met else where? To me, this type of relationship is so toxic. Obviously, he does not see any value in his own Wife by suggesting they "tolerate" each other quietly. I wonder if you had done any "digging up" to see if he has been seeing a nice lady who's meeting his emotional needs or not?

Usually, men do need/want female attention (again in my own experience).

In my view, get out whilst you can before things won't get any worse...I stayed in my toxic marriage only too long which kept me wide open to many more hurts.
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