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Old 30th April 2005, 11:37 AM   #16
Alexis
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Re: My wife does not love me anymore

I would just like to say that people who get married without being inlove or loving their partner just be absolutly mad. For me my wedding day was amazing, it brought home the true meaning of life to me, spending it with the person who is my best friend, soulmate, and lover. Someone I had the upmost respect for and admiration.

To get married without love is ridiculous, then someone will get hurt and most times do.

Alexis
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Old 30th April 2005, 04:45 PM   #17
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Re: My wife does not love me anymore

Quote:
Lastly LONDON, you seem to shrug off the "children effect". You mentioned the presence of children should not bind anyone to a marriage ..... well, I disagree. Once a couple have children, there is a responsibility / committment which supercedes one's personal desires. I would do anything for my wife & children. For now, I cannot envision our children being involved in a separation .... I just hope my wife feels the same.
Actually I am NOT shrugging off the "children effect". I think the children should come first. I am sure you love your children very much. But again, your post above sounds like you would hold the children against your wife to prevent her from leaving becuase you believe in the "nuclear family concept". But I believe you are doing your children greater harm by letting them see their parents not in love. Sure, they'll have a roof over their head and will be fed and will get to go to the grocery store with mom and dad. But they'll know mummy and daddy don't love each other - and that my friend is robbing the children of one of the most important aspects of the nuclear family - how to love your partner! They'll grow with the belief that love is not really necessary and needed in a marriage.

Children are incredibly perceptive and much stronger than we give them credit for. Separation is definitely hard on all parties involved, but you cannot and should not be using guilt as a glue. Nor should you be using children as the adhesive that holds your wife to you.

Quote:
let me say that I consider my wife ...my best friend, my lover. I have been her biggest fan and admire her good qualities (which she has many). Since I met her, she has had self-confidence problems ..... definitely brought on by her parents (especially her mother). So LONDON, I always have been very supportive .... and that's a serious concern of mine......at the time where I believe my wife should "lean on me"...she does not want to.
Its good to hear that you consider your wife your best friend. But again from your post, it doesn't seem like the reverse works.

Your further clarification about your W's self-esteem issues raise another intersting point. Is it possible your W agreed to marry you because at the time you boosted her self-confidence which over-powered her mother's seeming "abuse" rather than becuase she loved *you* (rather, she loved how the attention made her feel)? And now, since she's had time to think all the issues through its dawning on her that despite the children, she never loved you? That may explain why your wife no longer wants to "lean on you".
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Old 2nd May 2005, 10:06 PM   #18
Been-There-Before
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Re: My wife does not love me anymore

Hello Maastricht,

It sounds to me like your wife is feeling like her needs are not being met by you because you do not completely "understand" who she really is. I am willing to bet that she does not even really know who she is herself. If she came from a troubled childhood, from what it sounds like, her mother has put her down in the past instead of being supporting and encouraging. She might have been told by so many people that she needs to act or be a certain way that she actually believed it.

It is a difficult thing to be married to somone who has had a troubled childhood. In fact, it's even tougher when both of you come from (completely opposite) ways of living in a family that was NOT supportive or caring at all. This was the case for me and my wife. We are complete opposites and have been married now for 30 years. But 27 of those years were complete hell because we did not understand each other.

Your wife needs to understand why she is the way she is today. And only when she realizes that her troubled childhood was NOT her fault and that she did NOT 'ask' to be placed in that difficult homelife setting, will she begin to overcome those difficult issues from the past.

So in my opinion, you need to find out exactly why she is not happy in your marriage together. I wrote an article called the Secret Path to Divorce that describes the 'path' that ALL couples take when they go from "wedded bliss" to what I call, "the point of no return." In the article I talk about how couples enter a marriage with Ultimate Expectations which are often never even discussed, but assumed by both husband and wife.

It explains how to find where you are on this "path" and if you are on your way toward divorce, how to GET OFF and STAY OFF this "downward spiral" before it becomes too late to save your marriage.

If you'd like a copy of it, I will send it to you. I've found that it helps many couples and really opens their eyes to what is REALLY going on in their marriage. I also include literally a 'map' so you can visually see where you are and follow along while reading the article.

Just send me an email if you're interested in getting a free copy.
kbilotta@charter.net

Good luck,

Larry
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Old 3rd May 2005, 04:44 PM   #19
helenrw200
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Re: My wife does not love me anymore

Waterman

QUOTE
My cousin remarried a couple of years ago and it was strange that the chap she married had been divorced by his wife because she'd fallen out of love with him, but towards the end she wanted a reconciliation and was both desperate and jealous at the same time, feeling that she'd made a big mistake by not understanding her true feelings.

There is a simple explanation for this though, I went through a similar thing myself when my ex husband started seeing a new g/f and then moved in with her . All of a sudden I found myself feeling jealous and for a while I thought maybe I'd been wrong and I did love him after all , on deeper introspection though I soon realised that it wasn't that I loved him, it was jealousy of the fact he COULD have a new relationship and be happy, when he had spent 18 years telling me he couldn't live without me ! Once I came to terms with this , the feelings of jealousy went, and I now wish them both the happiness they deserve.
QUOTE
Take your own circumstances as outlined here. Please forgive me if I'm being presumtuous or have misunderstood anything. It seems as though the behaviour you spoke of might harm your relationship, something neither of you wants. It seems as though the chap needs a kick up the pants so he can see the situation more clearly and how selfish he is being.

You're right, my present b/f's behaviour is something that if it continues will ultimately end our relationship, I'm not so sure though that you can draw a conclusion from that , that HE doesn't want the relationship to end, in fact he can't see the harm in it and seems quite amazed that I would consider what he's done as infidelity. Try as I might I can't get him to see that from my point of view he already has been unfaithful, by his actions.Worse than this though is the lack of trust I now feel for him whilst still loving him, it's very complicated and does not exactly make for an easy life for either of us.

You said before that your wife cannot say with any certainty that she loves you or that she doesn't love you, in my experience this means she can't. It is purely from my experience though and I could be wrong, only you know her, I don't, but I tried to convince myself that I loved my ex, but I knew I didn't, and when I met my present b/f I knew that I did love him, there was no room of maybe's.

Whilst it is perfectly true that we are all capable of selfishness, if a partner is capable of being selfish to the point you raised about leaving once the children are grown and she / he no longer needs the security and comfort of a marriage to rely on, then that was the scenario I was questioning about whether you would want them to stay ? I'm not sure I could live with someone who would clearly ( for whatever reasons , selfish or not ) rather be somewhere or with someone else .
Helen
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Old 3rd May 2005, 06:59 PM   #20
explorer
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Re: My wife does not love me anymore

Well I can't say I am an expert. But I have had two friends told teh exact same thing by their wives. And I am sorry to say that both found out later on that their wives had indeed been having "emotional" affairs with other men and that attention is what prompted them to tell there husbands they no longer were in love with them. In actuality they had just found someone new that they deemed better. Not saying your wife has done teh same thing but if my wife told me that my first guess would be there was another man somewhere filling her head with junk.
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Old 8th May 2005, 02:01 PM   #21
maastricht
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Unhappy Re: My wife does not love me anymore

LONDON and others, I am interested in some feedback.

Continuing our situation ....... The other day my wife said to me "perhaps we would be better off just being friends".

During this same conversation, she asked me what we should do ...... my response was not very supportive. I told her that she has to make a decision. Over the past year, my wife has clearly stated that it was her problem .... that I cannot do anything about it ..... did not want my help ..... she had to be true to her feelings (or lack of them for me) .... had to understand the basis for her feelings, etc..etc.. ......... AND NOW, she ask me what are WE going to do?

It seems that she wants me now to take some control of the situation ..... and (once again) make the tough decision. I simply said no. I followed by saying I was not ready to end our marriage .... I feel that we have not exhausted all our options. Was my response wrong?

Telling her that I still love her. Telling her that I am not going to give up on her. Understand that I am a detailed / logical person ..... that is my nature. I am a successful corporate businessman with a science degree. In this case, this is probably the one aspect of my person that drives my wife crazy ..... seems to be driving her away from me even more.
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Old 8th May 2005, 02:38 PM   #22
maastricht
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Re: My wife does not love me anymore

Lastly, I forgot to say ..... when my wife asked "what are we going to do?" I replied in the way a logical, fact-oriented person could respond ..... I asked what you do want to do?

Without knowing my role or how to act (except from my heart) in this situation ..... I feel that if my wife wants out .... she has to say it. She has to tell me what she is going (or wants) to do. I guess I want that closure if this is the way we are to end.

As I said, I do not want to do so ..... but perhaps I am the "insane" one ..... believing that our marriage can be re-built/saved.... that my wife can "discover" and "understand" herself and the light will go on .... and she will be able to re-kindle whatever it was that found herself drawn to me.

I do know that both of us have to be on the same page to move forward .....

I am writing this on Mother's Day .... a day for celebration .... for my kids this could be the last...as a family.
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Old 8th May 2005, 05:45 PM   #23
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Re: My wife does not love me anymore

maastricht - those words your wife uttered to you striked a familiar chord with me. I think your response was somewhat supportive of her and firmly places the burden of action on her. But since you have not indicated that she came back with an answer, you still have the opportunity to suggest a few reconciliatory options.

You know, as "logical" as you may be, your response was an "emotional" one. Telling her you love her was from the heart. Did that have any effect on her?

Her telling you that she'd rather be friends with you again suggests that there is no more romantic love for you in her heart - BUT that she still does care for you and does love you.

One approach I might suggest - and this may be, umm, no, it WILL be hard, might be to suggest to her that the two of you go about a "trial seperation". This would allow her to think about the issues that are plaguing her without the pressure of you being there and may also give her the opportunity to really experience what it might be like if she wants to exit the marriage. It will either make her reconsider her committment to you OR will solidify her decision that an exit is best for the two of you. The seperation will also give you some space and time to think about things and at the end of it, will provide you with an answer. You've tried everything else.
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Old 8th May 2005, 07:36 PM   #24
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Re: My wife does not love me anymore

Dear Maastrich

There is a long thread posted by G-Dub (Married but under threat) where, over a period of months, he and his wife managed to repair a marriage which appears to have been in a similar position to yours, although the children were grown up.

Well down on page 7 of the thread, on 30th March, he lists the steps he felt were most helpful in recovering the situation.

I think this goes there:

http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/forums/sho...highlight=gdub

It did take several months, and the situation was touch-and-go. There was a steps-of-the-court reconcilliation, which I personally would have bet against. Still, just shows how wrong you can be.

G-Dub appears to have some factors in common with you, particularly in being an action-based person, used to taking decisions and finding it very difficult to deal with someone who wanted to simultaneously benefit from the decisions taken by others and yet protest that they had not been fully consulted.

I was trying to explain - not very sucessfully - to him that one of the features of years of childcare is that one very often has to adopt patterns of behaviour which cope well with the necessities of supporting children and a spouse but at the expense of 'putting up' with things. After a decade or so, it rankles. An example will clarify here:

Your W announces the marriage is in trouble. You take what she says seriously, and you are very upset. BUT when you next post, it appears that you have gone away for several days on a business trip. I know, the trip was necessary. I know it is how you make your money and she benefits from that. I guess it was booked long ago and it couldn't be changed because clients are depending on it, and they too have mouths to feed.

Suppose all that is true, but to your W it may feel as if she says something, you pat her on the head.....and nothing changes. So she is left seething, wondering exactly what she has to do to get some change around here.

The situation is complicated because she is just not sure what change she wants. Or, given the constraints, what might be possible.

As any lawyer will tell you, when someone decides to go, almost nothing will prevent them. So if she is around, what she wants is dialogue (that means you listen, she talks) and she is looking for negotiation, recognition, something hard to describe but when she sees it, she will grab it. For the moment, she still thinks that whatever it is, she is more likely to find with you than without, or she'd be off.

GDub explains it better than I do.
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Old 9th May 2005, 05:12 AM   #25
maastricht
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Re: My wife does not love me anymore

London & Concerned ......THANKS!

London, I did suggest to my wife .... does she need to take a weekend away...or even a week alone somewhere. I offered that suggestion not as a solution but as a start. I also offered to juggle my work schedule (and work from home and/or take time off) to accomodate .... as we have young children.

A "trial separation" for an extended period (as I see it) is virtually impossible since in addition to having young kids (1st & 2nd grade), 1.) we live in Midwest U.S. without any family support. Our respective families are miles away on the East Coast; 2.) I am the only full-time wage earner .... and while we are comfortable financially, we definitely cannot afford two separate dwellings without sacrificing certain things which will be kids-related. The real "pressure" for my wife now and in the future is the children ..... I know she cannot bear how her ultimate decisions will affect our kids.
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Old 9th May 2005, 02:10 PM   #26
London
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Re: My wife does not love me anymore

maastricht - I understand where you are coming from. Perhaps she should then take some time off and go to her parents place or perhaps stay with a friend (or vice versa, as in you may have to offer being away).

I do think its important that you both have some "alone" time away from each other in order to really think things through....
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Old 9th May 2005, 08:03 PM   #27
G-Dub
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Re: My wife does not love me anymore

Hi Maastricht



I have been following your thread with interest over the past few days and feel that you have been getting some sound advice from other members.



However, one thing that I do disagree with (purely on a personal level from my own experience) is the idea of separation. Whilst living together you both have the ideal opportunity to work through this to a conclusion but be warned it will take an awful long time and there is no guarantee of the “happy ending”. Both I and my wife realise that if either of us had moved out our future together would have been in jeopardy because the communication channel would have been limited and good meaning friends and family tend to offer even more biased advice to the separated partner’s. Additionally, separation may prove to either partner that they can go it alone and the lure of the “single life” can seem very exciting.



It was difficult, but remaining under the same roof allowed me the chance to demonstrate that I could respect her indecisiveness and give her the time to come to her own decision in her own time. If you’re like me this will drive you to the very edge but I found that getting on with my life and being the person that my wife first fell in love with helped her realise that what she had was not so bad. It’s all about communication and compromise. But be patient, very patient, as I learnt the hard way by pushing for a closure incessantly to the extent of me eventually filing for a divorce drove my wife further away. Backing off and showing patience is the key.



Be supportive in this time of need, listen to what she has to say and make sure your hear it and respond to let her know you are really listening and try to remain detached from the emotional aspects, this will minimise any conflicts. If you start to get angry during any forthcoming chats with your wife, stop and take time out but do keep having the communication.



We cannot put my finger on what was the turning point in my wife’s change in attitude and even now her love for me has not returned to what she had before but we are building on it, almost like a new relationship rather than the old one. One thing for sure was we both agreed to put in maximum effort into to making it work and both of us controlling the pace of the reconciliation to avoid falling back into the old routine.



I wish you well and keep posting here as the wealth of advice you find on this site and input from its members far exceeds any counselling that we received.
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Old 9th May 2005, 08:28 PM   #28
London
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Re: My wife does not love me anymore

maastricht - there you have it - two opposite views. I have seen both approaches work.

I do agree with G-dub to a degree, that the seperation would break the regular flow of communication. On the other hand, it allows for a solid resolution. You or W either miss each enough to work things out and come back home, or you don;t and feel like life is better off apart.
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Old 7th June 2005, 05:47 AM   #29
maastricht
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Unhappy Re: My wife does not love me anymore

Well, it's a month later ..... and nothing has improved. We continue to live in limbo....my wife has a part-time job so when I am not travelling on business, she is at work. Our conversation is strained....lively only when the kids are involved.

She has told me that I infuriate her by some of my antics ....such as, when she leaves for work, she will kiss the kids and I will say {in a joking way} "what about me". The kids will tease their Mom and say "yeah, you forgot to kiss Daddy". She hates it when I say I still love you. She feels that I am playing the "guilt" card. As well, in our "discussions", she gets mad because I am trying to use a logical approach to an emotional/irrational situation.

The other day I wrote her a note which in part included:

Here am I at work .... thinking, wondering, worrying (worrying mainly about you).

How are you? Where are you (with yourself)? What are you thinking? Are you having an "up" day? I feel as if I am intruding with these questions .... and I should not.

It seems that I have to watch my words around you ..... you may not realize it but you are way more edgy than ever before. Any little thing seems to "set you off". I try (and not always successfully) not to offer suggestions anymore. Is it frustration? exasperation? confusion? I thought your medicine was supposed to work in the opposite way {weak grin}.

Her response was to get into a big argument with me.

I implored her to accompany me to marriage counselling. She sees no value in counselling because "it will change her feelings about me". I said that I think a trained 3rd party may help us face certain issues....including separation/divorce.

She is encountering a rush of emotions .... she is very depressed because she is afraid of the future....afraid of my possible reaction to everything .... my wife has ALWAYS seen the darkest side of things. I think my wife has decided that we are done....but cannot bring herself to admit .....or is afraid to cut loose ..... because she has no where to go. I on the otherhand, refuses to even contemplate such a scenario.

I will admit that in many ways we are polar opposites ..... I am a morning person, she loves her sleep. I am a "half full" person...she says the glass is half empty.

Am I the one who needs help? Maybe my wife is correct .... should I face the facts .... my wife does not love me anymore and it's time for both of us to decide how to move on.

My instincts and personality is to fight back..... to make a last ditch effort to save our marriage....but who am I fighting?
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Old 7th June 2005, 01:26 PM   #30
Jake Blues
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Re: My wife does not love me anymore

Hi Maastricht.

I know exactly what you are going through. If you review my other postings you will see my current situation is similar to yours. It has been a revalation to me on this site how many people seem to be going through very similar problems. I guess its an indicatation that we are all very much the same when it comes to emotions and relationships. So I know how you feel and I sympathise. I feel just like you in that my instinct is to find a solution.

If you look at my posting http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=2341 , you will see my story is similar. I have received some excellent advice from Kuratti who appears to have gone through what we are going through and turned things around.
After much soul-searching in the last week or so, and with Kuratti's help, I have managed to find a way forward when I had none. There's no certainty that it will all turn out OK, but at least I have a path to follow. The thing I keep telling myself is something Kuratti said, "This is a marathon, not a sprint". My situation has gone on too long without me really recognising or understanding what has been happening. If my wife is to develop feelings for me again, it will take a long time. Not days or weeks, certainly months and maybe a year or two. Maybe they never will return fully.I don't know. However, what is certain is that pressuring my wife in any way - even subtle ways like the "kissing kids goodbye" scenario - will only serve to push her away and strengthen her resolve to escape. However tough it is, we have to be steady, resolute and extremely patient.
The other thing that has helped me has been my own self examination of my part in the relationship breakdown. Like Kuratti I have made a list of personal goals to make me a better person - and consequently a person who will be able to meet my wife's needs better than ever before. I have been quite open about this (I try to be open about everything - I have even shown her this web site - I am quite happy for her to read my postings - maybe it will help with her understanding?) and my wife has seen the list. I think it may already have given her pause for thought even though she is cynical about my long term will to change. This self-improvement is not for my wife however, its for me. If we do separate, I will be a better person as a result.
I think my biggest revelation however has been to realise and accept that I cannot control my wife. I cannot pursuade her or push her. She must make her own decision based on what is best for her and what she wants. At the end of the day, I love her to bits and I want her to be happy as well. If that means she must get away from me... so be it. I will have to deal with it when it happens. All I can do is show her I love her without pressurising her and try to show that there can be a future together... though she has to reach that conclusion herself. It is a very fine path to tread when you are consumed with love and jealousy, but at least its a clear path forward.

I don't know if you've checked out some of the other areas on this site. There's some excellent and really "eye-opening" articles in the "Marraige clinic". It a bit of a shock to realise you've been doing the relationship thing all wrong for the last twenty years!!!
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