How can I save my marriage

[katyb]

6 months ago i found out my husband of 11years and father of my 4 children had been sleeping with an 18yr old girl for 6 months. I wont go into all the details but he wasnt going to finish it he just got caught and had no choice and he treated me terribly while he was with her. he swore on our baby girls life nothing was going on and i dont know how he did that. i still love him and would love for us to stay together and get through this. he says he as changed and regrets what he has done and says he truly loves me now. but i find it all so hard to believe and still torture myself day and night with images of them together. Even if he is telling the truth and he does regret it now and does love me i just dont think i can live with him anymore knowing what he has done. we had only ever slept with each other but now he has broke that. i cant get over the fact that he went inside her and didnt give a **** about our bond or family. i just dont think i will ever be able to fully forgive and want him to leave but at the same time i just cant bear to say goodbye forever as i still love the man i married that was honest and decent.

Hi Katyb,

I so know how you feel. Many of us here are in the same boat. Before you can talk about splitting or even staying together, you need, I think, to understand why he went with this girl. Did he say why he cheated on you?

By the way, my husband of almost 17 years went with the other woman (my brother's wife!) because she was 'easier' than me, in that she didn't tell him about relationship problems. Their own 'relationship', that is. Hardly surprising because he only spent time with her when he was shagging her! Make of that what you will...

[Concerned Reader]

Dear Katb

The trouble is, an honest and decent man might wake up one morning having mistaken himself for Mick Jagger and unaccountably found he had gone off for a night in the stationery cupboard with the office junior.

At which point everyone would put it down to the drink, looked shocked and never, ever, let such a thing happen again. This is called 'having a regrettable lapse' and can be got round.

What has happened here is that a mature male, responsible for a wife and 4 children, has abused his position as an adult with a girl who may be technically capable of consenting to intercourse, but is in no sense his emotional or experiental equal. He has made a sexual convenience of her and was prepared to engage in deception of both sides purely for his own physical gratification.

There is something terribly wrong here, and since you put her age in the first sentence, you are already aware of it. So wrong that I would want to check exactly what age she was when she began the affair, and exactly what was their formal relationship to each other?

This is relevant because if your H was her teacher or similar (having a professional position of trust or authority over her) then it is possible that he has committed a sexual offence regardless of whether she is in fact over 16. It follows that, in the event of a prosecution, he may have to go on the register of sex offenders and his access to his children may have to be rigidly supervised.

All affairs are squalid, but this one was unusually exploitative and deceitful all round. You have to ask very serious questions about whether it is possible to forgive that, and I think you have to ask a psychologist with experience of dealing with paedophiles. (Ask your doctor to refer you in confidence.)

Your H may have been messing with a girl technically over the age of consent, but the motivation still stinks. What he should have said was 'run along and play with friends your own age, poppet'. What we know about people with this sexual preference is that they are highly resistant to change and exceptionally devious in disguishing the practice, to the extent of using families as both a cover and a potential source of gratification.

It isn't really for you to forgive your H in this case; he has to work for an unlimited period to show that he knows he was in the wrong and that he will never repeat the disgraceful behaviour.

Get professional help from your doctor's surgery. It isn't enough to be talking to a nice lady who did an evening course at college or a Relate counsellor. You've got to know if he presents a threat to the children.

[katyb]

thanx for the replies. he worked at my parents pub 2 nights a week behind the bar for some extra money and to help them out and she was the barmaid who worked with him. it all started last xmas eve when he gave her a lift home and ended up having a snog. she flirted and he had just turned 30 and was flattered. he said he felt his life was going nowhere and was just all about working to make ends meet. she flattered him and made life seem easier. he was horrid to us over xmas as he was obviousley thinking about her and spent an afternoon a week at her house having sex from january to may when i caught them all over each other at my parents on our wedding anniversary! i think he would of carried on seeing her if i hadnt caught him as i he was having a great time. pretending he was young and had no responsibilities. we married when i was 16 and he was 19 and we were each others first love and i think he wanted to know what it was like with somebody else. i think he is a dirty cheating lying scumbag but i dont think he is a paedophile

katyb - you are right, your H is not a paedophile (despite CR's over-active sense of drama and bs)! Your H cheated on you repeatedly with a woman who wanted to have a sexual relationship with no strings attached. She's 18 - wc in all likelihood meant she was not looking for a husband (she's not really the one to blame here - your H is) - she was looking for sexual gratification as much as H was. However, in your H's case, he CHEATED on you.

In either case, it would help you to understand why he did what he did. Also, are you sure that this was the first time he cheated on you (as in only with this girl)? Somehow, given what you have described, it would seem like there was more .... just a hunch.

[katyb]

thank you london. i have that same hunch and he said he did snog somebody once but he reckons that is it. but how am i supposed to believe him now. i am just so drained from going round in circles with this messed up head and broken heart. i want to believe heis truly sorry but i just cant. it wasnt a one night stand it wasnt just heat of the moment he enjoyed and put a lot of effort and time into a 6 month affair with her. i begged him continuosley to talk to me and tell me what was wrong and he would just get angry with me and say i was making him unhappy but he was seeing her the whole time. i kind of want him to go but i never imagined i would end up a single parent and dont know if i am strong enough to cope alone. i want the man i married back but am left wondering if he ever existed

katyb - i can only imagine how difficult it would be for you to become a single parent. You need take a breather from the situation - can you get some alone time in the next little while (ie no H around and possibly no kids)! While daunting as it seems to be a single parent, you may need even more strength to deal with H rather than if you went at it alone. Not only did he cheat on you (and got caught, and made it out to seem during that period that you were the bad one) but he lied to you (and may have lied before and may have cheated before as well) and he also took you for a fool. He probably reckons "where will she go, she's trapped with 4 kids". It seems like he's manipulative and feels that you can't or won't do anything because you are a mother of 4.

I just can't hep shake the feeling that he's been doing this behind your back for a long time...

[Concerned Reader]

Dear London

My general stance is that marriage is a good thing and should be saved and supported even in some cases where other people might call it a day, especially when children are involved. I believe that people should keep their promises. It follows that if I'm raising an issue which is so serious that in itself it militates against continuing a marriage, I must have very good reason to do it.

I only wish it were drama and b/s. Unfortunately, the experience of living in by Soham, working with Kevin Huntley (Ian Huntley's dad), knowing the village college, having an acquaintance with some of the bereaved parents and then she shock of finding out that the nice young constable just round the corner was downloading childporn has taught us all one horrible lesson.

Older married men who hit on teenagers are interested in power more than sex and they use their families as cover. Repeatedly.

If it were just about sex, they would be picking on someone their own age. Or doing it with the wife. It was precisely Huntley's functioning relationship with Carr which meant that, when local misgivings were raised as to his interest in girls supiciously near to 16 years old, those worries were set aside. Cover is a wonderful thing; the very people being deceived have the greatest interest in keeping it intact, because who wants to see THAT crawl out of a marriage?

If Katyb says she has nothing to worry about, fine. She knows her H. You don't. Your comments carry a danger that if Katyb has been more deeply deceived than you know, you are helping to put the children at risk.

I wouldn't want to be responsible for that.

If Katyb says she has nothing to worry about, fine. She knows her H. You don't. Your comments carry a danger that if Katyb has been more deeply deceived than you know, you are helping to put the children at risk.

I wouldn't want to be responsible for that.

enough already with y our melodrama. i am in no way shape or form putting any "child at risk" by what i say about you.

based on what katyb wrote, i was referring to the 18yr old. They are NOT all children as you seem to think. While i do not belittle yor concern for "children" (and i am just as concerned as you are given the situation you describe) there is nothing to suggest that her 30yr old H who shags an 18yr old is in it for only the "power" - yes there's an element of that involved, but more often than not its about getting laid because it's there, its available and it has no strings attached.

[Concerned Reader]

The disparity in ages is a key issue. That is why Katyb picked it up in her first sentence. Also, was she eighteen at the time? Or seventeen a year ago? (Certainly she will have been over 16; there is a discrepancy in the licencing laws which allows alcohol to be sold by, but not to, under 18s).

In the setting given, he was not just another bar worker. He was the male in authority by being married to the bosses' daughter. The correct response to any approach from the girl was 'no thank you'.

The provisions of the 2003 Sexual Offences Act changed the basis for the age of consent to have a regard for the relative age and authority between partners in certain settings. The law now takes a dim view of that is responsible adults, having inappropriate relationships with under-18 year olds. (S. 16 (1) (e) (i)). For example, within colleges, only a very dim teacher would have such a relationship with a student, even if he/she were over 18. Fortunately for Katyb's husband, this probably doesn't include pubs, but drift of the legislation is clear. The girl hasn't gone to the police, so a test-case isn't likely to result.

There was an old Harry Enfield sketch where a deluded car mechanic called Lee, or was it Lance (it was a long time ago) would generally do sloppy work, attempt to over-charge some woman, and then turn to his gormless assistant and say "See her, gaggin' for it she was. Gaggin."

I thought that attitude had gone the way of 'women really enjoy rape' but, then when you consider how much pornography Mr Desmond sells to middle aged men who engage in the fantasy that they are irresistible to teenagers, that they are doing them a big favour by bestowing the wisdom of their years on the grateful nymphette, and the girls are gagging for it, obviously I'm wrong.

Or as you put it without ever having spoken to the girl:

Your H cheated on you repeatedly with a woman who wanted to have a sexual relationship with no strings attached. She's 18 - wc in all likelihood meant she was not looking for a husband

This doesn't bear much resemblance to the values put forward my Tuesday/Thursday group, although admittedly they are young professionals (roughly 21-30). The dominant value there is conservative.

Several are in committed relationships (although only one is married). The twin objectives which dominate their lives are professional attainment and then finding a spouse who will be up to the serious job of engaging in a modern family. They do not regard casual sex as an option and think of someone who does as a victim either of their own low-self esteem, or sometimes the victim of a creep. (However, they seem very tolerant of getting drunk, to my thinking, and don't seem to mind vomit on their clothes. That surprised me.)

The young girl in Katyb's parents' pub may indeed have consented to sex. However, an 18 year old who wants sex is not short, generally, of takers who are much nearer to her own age and have the advantage of being available to form relationships with greater potiental for all concerned.

It is likely that the girl in the pub had her own problems, one being that she felt valued only when rendering sexual services and was having problems forming appropriate relationships. Unluckily for her, she fell under the influence of a selfish and exploitative man who wasted six months of her precious young life. And I'll bet she's lost her job too.

You were prepared to offer Katyb this assurance:

your H is not a paedophile

How exactly are you in a position to know this?
What you did correctly perceive, and what Katyb confirmed, is that this is not the first time something untoward has happened.

My attitude is that, being unable to rule this out and because there are 4 children involved and the circumstances of the adultery, Katyb would be prudent to speak via her doctor to a qualified professional who can give a better assessment of any risk. There may be none, and I hope not. But I still wouldn't want to be responsible for putting someone off asking, any more than I'd be prepared to tell someone on a website that a breast lump definitely wasn't cancerous.

If you don't like my comments, you are at liberty to ignore them.
However, you invited comment and yet seem unable to cope with it. Try to come to terms with the idea that mature women require neither your permission nor your approval to write as they see fit.

If you don't like it, take it up with the moderators.

However, you invited comment and yet seem unable to cope with it. Try to come to terms with the idea that mature women require neither your permission nor your approval to write as they see fit.

Look lady, i never wrote anywhere that you required my permission to say anything you want. But I am just as free to disagree with you. And quite frankly i do not need to read your underhanded or overhanded insults lobbed at me when we are discussing here.

[katyb]

does anyone have an opinion on whether i should stick at this or walk away and start again with somebody who has better morals. i supppose what i wonder is can people really change?

katyb - whatever you decide to do you have so much you need to consider.

How would you manage financially, emotionally and even physically with 4 kids on your own?

The alternative is how do you survive knowing that your H is a strayer (may have been for a while) and may potentially repeat this, he is a lier, he obviously doesn't seem to value you or the family .....

Personally, i'd say "see ya" to the jerk, but as i said before, you have a lot to consider and figure out before you can do that...

You're asking "can people change" .... they can if THEY want to, deep down. The question is, does your H want to change?

[Concerned Reader]

i do not need to read your underhanded or overhanded insults lobbed at me when we are discussing here.

I'm sure the moderators will note that you began not by disagreeing, but by passing an insulting opinion on my psychology.

Most people understand that rights to disagree are bi-lateral; i.e. if you choose to express an opinion of me, I am free to express one of you. If you didn't like my reply, then all you had to do was refrain from commenting on it.

However, if you do choose to comment, it is then a bit thick to complain that it gets replied to. The general maxim is 'if you can't take it, don't dish it out'.

I don't think you are used to being questioned and it riles you that some mere woman has dared to answer you back. I have better things to do than deal with your tantrums and am therefore referring this to the moderators, but you might want to look back at Katyb's earlier posts and notice that she was 16 when they married.

You do the maths. Delicacy forbids me from asking certain questions.

I don't think you are used to being questioned and it riles you that some mere woman has dared to answer you back. I have better things to do than deal with your tantrums and am therefore referring this to the moderators, but you might want to look back at Katyb's earlier posts and notice that she was 16 when they married.

How nice of you to be able to explain to yourself what "riles" me. If that's what makes you feel better, please tell yourself more.

To set the record straight, all the women in my life are strong women who see fit to debate things openly and intelligently. They question me and I question them. They can hold their own. But i see you can't and you have to underline for the upmteenth time that you are a woman and moreso you need to run for assistance now.

The general maxim is 'if you can't take it, don't dish it out'.

obviously you can't "take it" as you are now running to the mods to complain. Look lady, the generally accepted response for people like you is "WHATEVER".