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Old 3rd January 2011, 11:28 AM   #106
Raymond
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Re: How do I take the final step?

He has to understand about cutting contact. There is a soul tie between them that needs to be realised. This could easily grow up again in times of weakness unless it is dealt with now. It's plain and simple really. If a man is faithful to his wife it doesn't leave any room for any other relationship of that type. Hopefully this will lessen if he is true to his word.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 06:40 PM   #107
Forever
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Heather,
I have some questions if I may ask. How close do you live to the OW? Did your husband say what he was doing when he did not come home those days during Christmas? Were you afraid to ask? How did the OW's son get the gift that your husband purchased for him? What are the living arrangements that you and your husband now have?? Did he move back in completely?

Are you able to believe the things your husbands says? If you are not offended, can I ask something personal? Are you and he intimate at this point? Does your husband stand to lose a great deal financially if the two of you went your seperate ways?

Thinking about whether or not you would be better off w/o him will become evident given more time. If all you do is wonder about his whereabouts, if he is telling the truth, and if you are constantly playing detective then you will answer your own question in due time. Are you and he going to counseling?

Raymond is so right. If your husband feels a need to reach out to the OW during holidays or whenever he gets anxious about whatever is going on between the two of you, then this will never end happily for anyone concerned. He has made a second life with the OW and unless that is completely severed (by him), including texts, mobile numbers, emails ect. he will likely continue to see her as an option and not get on rebuilding with you.

I guess I am perplexed as to why you want to make a go of this? I do not take the years that you invested in your life with him lightly, but at the same time, I do not take the years your husband invested in the OW and her son lightly either.

Last edited by Forever; 3rd January 2011 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 08:40 PM   #108
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Heather, STILL he hasnt cut off contact. Where does that leave you?. Well you can allow the contact to continue, or you can put your foot down. How long will you wait for him to do the right thing? He isnt letting her go. If he REALLY wanted you back he would stop all contact. No contact means NO CONTACT. No Happy Christmas, no Happy New year, no presents, no nothing, anymore, ever. Maybe you need to give yourself a time limit for him to do that and stick to it. I am amazed at your patience, I would have said good bye long ago.He appears to have no remorse, no sorrow and no repentance at all. He is still hanging onto her just in case you decide to end the marriage.My betting is that he hasnt yet told her the truth anyway.I think he is lying to both of you and stringing you both along, and you are both letting him.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 10:07 PM   #109
Forever
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Why dont you just allow him to have his concubine and her son since he is so very very torn and you are so very very confused and undecided? Why put ANY restrictions on him at all until YOU make up your mind if he is the kind of man you want regardless of what he did? After all, ANYTHING you do may turn out to be a mistake, isnt that what you are so afraid of? So? What if you did make a mistake that happens to benefit yourself for a change? Nothing you can do is going to be worse than what he has been doing, and nothing you can do is ever going to give you assurance that he is not going to do what he has done again. It is all up to him, now and in the future.

Seems that you are still having to continue to do a great deal of checking, asking, figuring, and wondering if he has truly made a commitment to you. What good is all this if you simply cannot trust the man? Good thing he is not living with you, if you find that you cannot go forward with him, it will be difficult getting him to leave again.

I think the OW is quite satisfied sharing him with you, otherwise why put up with six years of it? Couldnt you be gracious enough to look the other way until your husband makes the break completely on his own accord without any pressure from you? Really, what do you have to lose at this point? History? What is so precious about the history if it includes six years of lying, cheating and him having another family on the side?

I also realize that the two of you will have to totally reconnect in ALL levels of your marriage, but how can you be sure that it is EVER going to happen if you do not get proper counsel together, and if he does not make a complete and total break from the OW on his own, without YOU demanding it?

Are you afraid of getting counsel? Why are you so nice and understanding of what OTHERS are feeling and doing, but so timid about what your own needs, feelings, and values are?

So sorry, but I think it is unfair of you to go around snooping up on him, asking any questions, or otherwise feeling hurt or slighted since you are the one who cannot decide what you want. Your husband and his OW were happy to keep it the same as it has been for the last six years, then you come along and pretty much rocked the boat. You discovered them, asked your husband to leave, brought up a threat of divorce...and THAT is the ONLY reason he is doing anything to try and appease you. He changed directions when you found out, but not because HE was ready to change anything. He does not want a divorce, because he likes having the best of both worlds, plus there will be no financial reprocussions. You forced him to do something by threatening divorce, but you are banking on your history together to suffice in the absence of true love and fidelity. Am I wrong?? Now he is supposed to "prove" himself to you...but he still has not been able to do that, other than by empty words and a flurry of half starts. Sorry, but he must think you are a very niave woman.

He is still in contact with her? Why not just leave them alone until you are certain about what it is YOU want? Is being the perpetual victum a better choice, and does it serve to keep your own lost values at bay? Face yourself Heather. Should you really be entertaining a life with him unless you are certain about what you will tolerate and being ready to walk away if he violates your terms. It has been TEN months since you found out. Is he any closer to convincing you that it is over between he and the OW especially since ringing her for Christmas, buying her son a gift, and disappearing for several days for some "alone time"? What does his family know about this and why have they not been outraged and supportive towards you?

You knew about the OW for four months before you finally agreed to seperate. How did you manage to get along with him during those four months before he finally moved out? Can you get back together, really, knowing he can contact her whenever he wants? Are you willing to live your life stumbling upon or looking for evidence of his continued interest in her? When he gets quiet or moody, will you be wondering if he is missing her or her son? Will you be afraid to ask? Can you have sexual relations with him and not think about her and him together? Do you know him well enough to discern when he is lying? Do you wish to police him and become the guardian of his virtue?

These are just a few things you need to look at, since he STILL has not cut out all contact with her. This is why I think you will need counseling before you proceed. You need to find out who YOU are in this whole mix. You seem to have lost yourself, thus all the confusion.

Last edited by Forever; 4th January 2011 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 4th January 2011, 07:00 PM   #110
Raymond
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Re: How do I take the final step?

I agree with all of the above.

The only thing that bothers me though is cutting off contact with the son. A relationship has been formed with him it seems and the husband might feel a responsibility. Maybe he had become a kind of father to him. The boy was not responsible for the sins of his mother and is an innocent party here.

I know it complicates things but the question has to be asked if the contact was for the boy's sake and not for the mother. Six years is a long time and it seems that there was a relationship with the son as well who could now be suddenly fatherless. I know it could be used as an excuse, but it is not so straightforward as it seems. Only Heather will know the true situation.
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Old 4th January 2011, 07:22 PM   #111
Forever
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Exactly Raymond. That is why Heather should leave them alone until she discovers her own values, what she wants, what she is willing to live with, and what she is willing to sacrafice. The son was pulled into this because of what his mother wanted. Heather's husband has essentially created a family with them. That should weigh heavily.

This is a case for Soloman. Cut the lad in two? Sorry, I think Heather's husband should be with the OW. I do not think Heather will EVER be at peace knowing what he has created, and will never be able to trust him again. I do not think her husband will be able to completely cut the bonds he helped to create, and I do not think it fair that Heather would have to live everyday knowing that. I think deep down Heather knew this, otherwise she would have not asked her husband to leave after four months of mulling it over, and knowing that her husband continued to text the OW daily, even after getting caught, she was too uncomfortable.

God can and will build a new life for Heather, her husband already made one for himself, the OW and her son.

Honestly, I think there are no winners here, only survivors. I also think Heather was well on her way to finding herself and making her own decisions until her husband grabbed the reigns, and decided for her no less, that he wanted to "finish what they had started". This is so unfair to all concerned, heartless to the OW, her son, and especially to Heather. Let the OW deal with the complexities of the man she chose. A marriage should not be a game of "tug of war". Someone has to let go.

Last edited by Forever; 4th January 2011 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 4th January 2011, 08:49 PM   #112
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Re: How do I take the final step?

All those questions you ask, Forever, are questions I am asking myself... I have arranged to go and see a cousellor because in all of this I have lost myself somewhere. I did reach a point a few weeks ago when I felt my decision was made and I was calm about it - then I told him I wanted a divorce and he fell apart. I sometimes wish I had stuck to my guns then - been stronger - but I felt guilty for hurting him... oh the irony!
There was a long time until we separated because I di not want my daughter's work for her A levels to be wrecked. I had to keep it in and wait until she had done her exams and there would be no damage to her future in terms of university etc... My husband works away from home so during that time he wasn't around all the time. In answer to another question we have not been intimate for at least 2 years as he said 'he doesn't agree with sleeping with 2 women at the same time!!' Could you hear my laughter at that one...strange morals?
I do not know whether I can live with this lack of trust in myself. I have always been a trusting person with those I know (although I don't let people in easily) and now I feel as though I am going crazy. I am angry at myself too, for not being stronger; for not making a decision quicker; for tolerating the situation... what a wuss! But that does not seem enough to give me the strength to deal with my husband.
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Old 4th January 2011, 09:32 PM   #113
Forever
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Re: How do I take the final step?

You will be fine, you have made the first step (you will probably wonder why you had not done it sooner). Hopefully, the counselor will help you cut through the fog and help you discover what is the best action to take. You have so very much concern for others that you have forgotten to be just as concerned for what you need here too. You are not going crazy. You have been hit head on, drug through knot holes, deceived, and made to feel as though your responses were the main cause of HIS present distress. Any one of us would have been knocked for a loop.

Did I understand you correctly? He has not been intimate with you for TWO years? Does that, and especially his explanation, mean that you have known about the OW for that length of time? If not, how did you account for no marital intimacy for two years? Not that it makes any difference now, but realize that if you go forward with him, you will have to resume those things with him.

Let us know how you are doing, we all want you to be at peace. Take your sweet time. Learn to trust your intuition and know what is best for you. Do not rely on your ability to trust him. This is about finding who YOU are.

Forever

Last edited by Forever; 4th January 2011 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 4th January 2011, 10:19 PM   #114
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Re: How do I take the final step?

It is amazing that I wasn't suspicious isn't it... as I said I was always very trusting. My husband works away a lot anyway so he was away most of the week. At weekends he maintained he was tired, stressed, had work to do, etc... he always sat up late at night on his laptop working, even bringing it to bed!
I just always assumed it was me that was the problem and we didn't talk about important things much at that point, so it was never discussed.
The first time it happened - at the start of his affair I did ask if there was someone else and he said no - so I believed him... i often wonder what would have happened if I had pushed him on the subject at that point. Life would probably be very different.
Still, as you say, that was in the past.

I am hoping that the counselor will help bring some clarity to my thoughts and a sense of self. Then maybe this year will be a better one
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Old 4th January 2011, 10:32 PM   #115
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Keep us up to date with your progress Heather. We love the person you are.
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Old 4th January 2011, 10:45 PM   #116
chosen
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Heather my gut feeling has always been that you are ready to move on, that you have had enough of his 6 years of lying cheating and decieving,(which he STILL hasnt ended) but that you havent got the strength/courage to end it. As soon as he got upset, you went back on it.
If I were you I would write him a letter telling him exactly what you want to do and you wont need to deal with his upset. To be honest he has a real cheek to be upset at you at all, what does he expect?

If you do decide that you want to give it another go, you must tell him that ALL contact wiht the oW must cease NOW. The thing is that he told you ages ago that he was going to end it and he hasnt.He is still lying to you and not being honest. I dont agree that he needs to see the boy of the OW. He isnt his son and he shouldnt be seeing either him nor her ever again.Its sad for the boy but his mum shouldnt be having an affair with a married man.There are always consequenses to affairs, and none of them are good ones.

I feel so frustrated for you, that he has you just where he wants you and you cant get yourself out of it. He wont even end that wrong relationship and has shown no remorse, or repentance for it at all. He isnt the sort of man I would ever want to be married to but thats just me. He is keeping you both hanging on, probably lying to you both and you both need to dump him asap in my opinion. The man isnt worth bothering about, has no back bone, no morals and no inetegrity. If you got back with him do you honestly think he would keep his word not to see her again? He said he would finish it weeks ago and still hasnt, so why do you think that he would then?Has he shown himself to be a man who can be trusted at all? Not as far as I can see.

Last edited by chosen; 4th January 2011 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 4th January 2011, 11:04 PM   #117
Forever
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Re: How do I take the final step?

OMG You are so funny Chosen, I was wondering how long it would take you to release your outrage at this situation! :^)

But Heather has a bigger problem than just her husband, she will eventually let go, but she needs to be stable in her own ability to trust her instincts and learn to stand on her own emotional two feet. She will get there, and her counsel will help her. Personally, I would not give her husband, the OW or the boy a second glance right now if I were her. But she needs to get strong and THEN do what she has to do. Remember, she will live the rest of her life by her choices, not you or I. You and I are on the outside looking in, she is a tender, gentle, loving, trusting person who needs more help to get there than what we can offer....not to say that you are not Chosen, but this is her car wreck.

Heather,

Do yourself a favor. Stop yourself from doing anymore prying, snooping, questioning,or making any more concessions than what you want to do, ect...Just concentrate entirely on how you feel, what you want, and what you need. This is not selfish. You have lost yourself in who he is, and cannot discern up from down on your own yet. You cannot get those answers by looking at your husbands behavior, and it WILL make you go nuts if you keep using him as a guage for your own well being. Turn your gaze away from him and upward to God.

Last edited by Forever; 4th January 2011 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 5th January 2011, 07:15 AM   #118
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Hi Heather..

I agree with Forever that the concentration on his movements has to stop. Distrust can be obsessive. You suffer the same as a guy out of a war zone. That full adrenalin rush when there is stress is wearing you down emotionally. This forms a breeding ground with lowered immune system for serious illness.

This is a time to trust that you can get through this time WHICHEVER way you make the final decision on how you want this chapter to end. Don't be steamrolled into making hasty moves but DO work with a counsellor to explore your strengths and nourish your close friendships.
You marriage and where it stands deserves your best shot to get through some of the basic truths of where/how you both lost touch emotionally with each other.

He is not the big hunter, right? So I don't get it that he went out with intent in mind to get into a quagmire and hurt you or his family. Now the job to be away from family for extended time can sure set in loneliness and discontent. That may be part of the puzzle. The best thing would be if you both could sit down and talk about where the intimacy was lost. You need to go alone and talk about those feelings. Find out what you can do to channel anger and hurt into healing for a better tomorrow. Alone or together? You will know when the time comes to move on alone. You are indeed a special warm and loving person and deserve happiness.

When you meet with a counsellor it is not in placing blame but to understand what went wrong. That will move you past "What is wrong with you" or if he thought he got a better deal elsewhere. To meet with an experienced counselor will help you move to a better point emotionally. There is baggage that one can carry always. or leave it and him behind. The main thing is that you consider your life and what you need for your happiness.

Your career is a good one and you have security in this. I hope you will be given a sign of what would be the best path for you. I almost feel there is undue pressure that you make a decision that others agree or that they would make. It is your life. The main thing is you are an adult and I respect that it is your heart and soul that will make the decision for you. If you see that this man is running back and forth, than the decision is made..cut him lose and say goodbye. Until that is clear
that you know things have changed and you can move forward and resume a decent life together...get far away from the confusion and heartbreak. You make the decision.
I wish you the very best.

Last edited by 1aokgal; 13th January 2011 at 03:51 AM.
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Old 5th January 2011, 10:23 AM   #119
chosen
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Re: How do I take the final step?

[QUOTE=Forever;58807]OMG You are so funny Chosen, I was wondering how long it would take you to release your outrage at this situation! :^)

But Heather has a bigger problem than just her husband, she will eventually let go, but she needs to be stable in her own ability to trust her instincts and learn to stand on her own emotional two feet. She will get there, and her counsel will help her. Personally, I would not give her husband, the OW or the boy a second glance right now if I were her. But she needs to get strong and THEN do what she has to do. Remember, she will live the rest of her life by her choices, not you or I. You and I are on the outside looking in, she is a tender, gentle, loving, trusting person who needs more help to get there than what we can offer....not to say that you are not Chosen, but this is her car wreck.

Heather,

Do yourself a favor. Stop yourself from doing anymore prying, snooping, questioning,or making any more concessions than what you want to do, ect...Just concentrate entirely on how you feel, what you want, and what you need. This is not selfish. You have lost yourself in who he is, and cannot discern up from down on your own yet. You cannot get those answers by looking at your husbands behavior, and it WILL make you go nuts if you keep using him as a guage for your own well being. Turn your gaze away from him and upward to God.[/QUOTE]


If you think thats outrage, forever, you aint seen nothing yet.lol.

Forever I have said the same before to Heather way back on the thread. She said a while back that she was beginning to do quite well without her husband, and even that she wanted now to move on. She asked for a divorce 4 weeks ago, and only went back on that because he got upset (poor darling)Its always been 100% clear to me that she has had enough of him and the marriage and the lying and cheating, but just that she needs help and support to end it.
I am just so tired of women like Heather(and men as well of course)whose spouses treat them like dirt, lie to them, have sex with other people, decieve them, dont keep their promises, go behind their backs, and they are allowed to get away with it all. I have seen it happen time and time again in my own family,and among dear friends, and marriages ruined, destroyed and lives broken, and yes, even suicide in my family because of long term infidelity. Heather came here asking how she can end her marriage, that was her question and that was my answer.She has never said that she even wants him back, not once.She even said that she cant bear to be in the same room as him, and that she cant trust him.No basis for a marriage I think you will agree.

Couselling can help to a point, but at this point in time she has pressing matters to deal with that wont wait. When this is all over and the dust settles, then she will have all the time in the world to talk about it, analyse it and to get help at counselling if she wants to, and to move on. It will be the best thing she ever did from what we have read here. I honestly think that Heather knows exactly what she wants to do, its just that she cant bring herself to do it. She has implied many times what she wants.She has made it pretty clear.

Last edited by chosen; 5th January 2011 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 5th January 2011, 02:12 PM   #120
Raymond
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Re: How do I take the final step?

I don't think either of you disagree with each other Chosen. Forever sees that Heather needs to be built up to make the right decision. You see what the decision should be in your view and Forever agrees with it but it is still Heather's decision.

As you say Heather had already made the decision until he said that he wants to finish what he started and be with Heather. That is something that needs to be worked through depending on his present attitude which is not so clear as he is still a kind of father to the boy. Fatherless boys should be a concern I would think. It is a seperate issue and it is not a bad thing to be concerned so long as he is cutting contact with the mother.

I agree with you in that adultery is a terrible thing and would always agree that a wife doesn't become a doormat while her husband cheats. Still, I think there are a few more loose ends here.
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