Can you "get back" feelings?

[Concerned Reader]

Dear Jools

I don't know if this link will help, but it indexes emotional issues which people who have experienced cancer might face.

http://www.cancerbacup.org.uk/Resour...otionaleffects

I'm sorry the counsellor didn't seem to be much help, but I believe the reality is that there is very little she can do unless the approach is from your H himself.

Actually, despite the difficulties with the counsellor, I would pursue this for yourself as it makes it easier for your H to join you or to seek help himself. If you go now, it gives him 'permission' to go when he feels ready. Perhaps a different sort of counsellor would be more appropriate though.

I hope things improve soon.

[blossom]

Originally Posted by Waterman

So, what's the answer to the question? Can you get back feelings? Yes or no? Examples please. Seriously, this is what so many of us want to know, otherwise it is all indecisive waffle. My wife says "you can't help feelings", as if they have a mind of their own. Is she right? Can we win them back, recreate them, rekindle them or whatever? What chance is there? Where are the good examples?

I'm not sure if I'm a good one to answer this question, but the subject just drew me in. My H had an affair about 3 years ago. I had found out after it had went on for over a year. We had been married for 26 years. I didn't want to throw all of our history/life together away....I wanted to give him a second chance....US a second chance, I should say. We then reconciled. I was elated...and I feel he was as well. It took alot of trust on both of our parts. Then...I found out from acquantances, that this had happened before....MANY TIMES. He had affairs during our entire marriage! I WAS SICK....and literally went dead inside. I no longer care what happens in our marriage. I just want OUT. He continues to tell me how much he loves me...how many mistakes he has made in our marriage, etc. This year....we will be married for 30 years. I have tried to leave twice, and he has attempted/threatened to end his life. He has been hospitalized for depression/suicide attempt. I am here because he is my husband and our childrens father. I no longer feel married...I just feel responsible for him and his welfare. Does the feeling come back you asked?? YES....if you each want/desire it! IF too much pain has passed, then from personal experience, I doubt it very much. I just want to move on....and attempt to gather my life together. Having never had an affair.....I just want to be happy again....alone or otherwise! Good luck to you...I wish you well. Blossom.

[jools]

Just a general update, but really i'm looking for some sane voices out there to stop me embarking on a course that my logic tells me is unwise but my insecurity is pushing me into. As you've read I am pretty sure that my husband is depressed following his cancer op and issues with us just before that. He's never given me reason to doubt his faithfulness BUT reading so many of these threads through, we follow the pattern of so many people that have lost feelings for spouses with one exception...the bit on the side! Now, i'm starting to question whether we are so different, am I being naive and deluding myself? Would his behaviour be more easily explained if it were driven by guilt? See, I've got myself at it.

Now here's the crunch...I can hear London tutting already...I'm tempted to start checking his mobile and phone bills, just to get it out of my head. I think I asked the wrong friend for advice because she said it was normal to feel as I did and that it was just self preservation to check. So come on folks, speak sanity to me. His bill is due to arrive from when he was abroad recently and I'm so tempted to steam it open just to see if I was the only one that he was sending daily texts to (He told me that he made no other calls while away as it was too expensive). Oh God, suspicion eats at you. I've actually told him how I feel and he assures me thaere's no one else. But when I read everyone else's posts i think I'm deluding myself. I've started to look for "evidence"....not leaving his phone lying around etc. Help, i'm going mad!!!!!
Jools. XX
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LovelyWendie

Jools,

Been there done that big time and believe me it doesn't help at all. Ask yourself this, what will you do if you find something ? See, unfortunately, once you start checking up it is very, very hard to stop and you also have to think through what action you can take if you do find something you don't like . I now feel terrible and am in a no win situation, if he leaves his mobile around I am tempted to check, if he doesn't I start wondering why ! I find myself watching his every move and it isn't pleasant for either of us. all it has done is breed more suspicion to the point where I don't trust him and he doesn't trust me not to look.

What will you do if you find he has been txting other women ? Leave ? Confront him ? Live with it and let it eat away at you ?That's pretty much the choices you have and believe me , even if you find nothing, you'll still be finding reasons why he might have done it and hidden it ( such as deleting txts etc ). Are you going to phone everyone who's number is listed on his bill ?

It's a slippery slope and one I dearly wish I had never set foot on !

Nobody can stop you if you really want to do it, but my advice would be don't ,if you don't trust him, if he has given you reason not to, then find another way or you'll end up feeling worse.

Helen xx

Jools - I only "tutted" becuase it's a dangerous game to play. As helenrw200 mentions, what then? What will you do if you find out that he's been not only texting but also calling/receiving calls from O/W? If you are strong enough to confront him and the situation with your new found knowledge, then I would say go for it. You have noting to lose. If you are still "hoping" to save your relationship, then its not worth it. You need to decide. If you have already decided that there's no point continuing with him, then you should be able to handle any "new information" you get by "snooping".

But listen to yourself in the above post. Is that a sign of a trusting healthy relationship? I think you may already have your answer.

Another point is, what makes you think he doesn't have another phone that he uses abroad?

Ahem. I think London is spot on. If that is the level of mistrust you two have for each other, then nothing is going to work. Your "blissful" moments would only be that...moments.

Has he been untrustworthy? Factually, the answer is no at this point in time. If he hasn't been unfaithful, then you have no reason to mistrust. On the other hand, if there is love in a relationship, occassional insecurities do crop up. One should accommodate those and deal with them honestly and openly. Easier said than done, but well worth it. He does go away a lot, that has its own effects. Bear in mind he trusts you all alone at home when he leaves. You have even more opportunity to stray than he probably would have.

I opened my stuff to my partner so she could see I am not hiding anything and encouraged her to ask. If there is nothing to hide, then a person would not mind a one-off opening up of the "books" so to speak. Auditing is a natural process. We should have natural auditing processes for both partners in a relationship.

I think the need to know is stronger than the fear of the consequences.

Ask him straight out to show you, and put the insecurity on YOURSELF. Do not say you suspect HIM, seeing as you are suspecting yourself. BUTTTT - before you do any of that, make damn sure that you have not been up to no good behind his back. And I mean anything you would not like him to see.

If you have done any such thing, first sweep in front of your own doorway before going to him. Transferring one's own guilt into mistrust of one's partner often happens. It's called a guilty conscience.

If you have been trustworthy, then I think it could be healthy to have the occasional audit. I don't think one should just blindly trust. Children do that, not adults.

[jools]

Thanks Helen for your spot on advice! That's all I wanted to hear. In fact you've been a very good cyber friend to me with some of your advice. Normally I'd be giving the same advice to others but I think I lost the plot because it's been so hard coping with his depression that I allowed my own paranoia to take over. When someone is so withdrawn and you're trying to be positive all the time for them, it sometimes builds up. We're all allowed our off days when things just get too much and the last two days have been like that for me.

I have NO reason to mistrust him as he has always been an honourable and trustworthy man. London, he only went on a "one off" trip abroad and he can't even get round to paying the bill on his existing phone let alone getting another one. I felt ashamed that I was contemplating "snooping" which was why I posted on here - knowing that I'd be told not to! Anyway I didn't. In fact when he came home I told him how I'd been feeling and what I had been thinking. He immediately took out the bill and threw it down for me to look at. I didn't look and apologised for not trusting him. He said he'd find a way through this and that we'd be fine (i'm assuming he meant his depression). So I guess I did what Ashamed suggested, and I feel alot better for it. Thanks folks for getting me back on track. I will NOT be doing ANY checking in the future. I will trust. And if I want to know I will ask. Whether you're an optimist or a pessimist the outcome will be the same...but the optimist has a better time waiting. THANKS!
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Jools

You are more than welcome, and I'm so glad you didn't do it !

It is so hard to live with someone who's depressed but you're coping remarkably well, it can be a very relationship destroying illness because the depressive seems not to care at all, and that's a real sod to cope with ( pardon my language ) and it is all to easy to " lose the plot " when you're stuck in the middle of it, I sometimes feel like the lunatics have taken over the asylum !

Has your H had any help with his depression yet ?Or is he still in denial ?

Anyway glad to have been of help !

Helen xx

That's the spirit!

[jools]

Hi Helen,
In response to your last post, it's difficult to know what he does or doesn't believe. I think he accepts he's depressed, but i'm not sure that he sees that there's any way out (the "hopelessness" you mentioned?) I wouldn't dare suggest anti-depressants, I just sense it would be a bad move; but I've spent endless time on-line researching more natural approaches. The doctor is going to test for low testosterone in his next blood test (regular PSA checks after his cancer op.). I've been getting the various vitamins recommended for depression (B6 etc), omega 3 and if the testosterone level is OK then I'm going to get some 5HTP online as it's supposed to be very successful. He knows why I'm getting these but seems happy to take them. I'll try anything. I have to cos I don't think he'd bother.

I try to be positive (which I am by nature) but I get scared sometimes that things will never improve. We do sometimes have sexual contact, but I sense that he doesn't connect emotionally. The cloud is always over him. It's not just with me, he's like it all the time. You're right about them not seeming to care. That's when the paranoia sets in. Spontaneous hugs and kisses just don't happen. In fact he said last year when he was especially bad that he doesn't want to be touched or kissed. Just recently when I raised the question about "us" he said quite sadly "I'm trying". Knowing that there'd been more physical contact between us at this time my reaction was to feel offended. He said that he enjoyed it but that "trying" word really upset me. Stupid, I know. I think it's hard not to take things personally, to see that someone is dealing with illness. I suppose it's hopeful that he is able to "try". I am trying very hard to get my head round all of this, and your insight has been invaluable to me. Thanks again.
Jools. XX (Thanks also Rob for your encouraging message...X)
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UHWH

Hi Jools

This lack of kissing and hugging ... is it a recent thing ? Was he the type of man who would be sponaneous before ? I only ask because although the likelyhood is that he is depressed it can also be a trait of a different type of disorder .

Anti depressants aren't always the answer, but obviously they are the quickest route short term , there are natural treatments available and though I haven't tried them myself I know they can work for mild to moderate depression and therapy is fantastic if you are open to it, but he seems not to want to admit to his depression, so it's unlikely he'll want to try it.

What sort of cancer did he have ? My step dad had prostate cancer a couple of years ago and his sex drive suffered because of it, he also felt down for quite a while... after some investigation by my mum it turned out.... to be blunt.... that he felt he had decreased in size and felt less of a man.. he was prescribed viagra but refused to take it and they have now pretty much given up on it.. he's a very private person and didn't like the thought of all the intimate treatment he would have to have to tackle the problem.

If your H is still having intimate physical contact with you, but you feel he is holding back emotionally it may be due to depression or simply that he is having these feelings and worries of not being able to satisfy you, something I guess only he would know.

You come across as a very upbeat and positive person and you're certainly doing all the right things....... your deep love for this man is very obvious , he is at least starting to try, which means he is starting to realise he has a problem , that's a start .

Keep on doing whatever you feel you have to do.....and also remember you are an important person too, so take care of yourself. Keep us posted.

Love

Helen xx

[jools]

Hi Helen,
Yes it was prostate cancer. It left him impotent for a year after. For the past year his "potency" has improved (trying not to be too graphic!). Though he has little sex drive...used to have a VERY high sex drive. One other prob that the op has left him with is an excruciating cramping pain on ejaculation (no other way to say that one) that hurts for quite a while after...yep, another spanner in the bloody works (didn't want to bore you with that one before). He says it doesn't put him off trying, but it doesn't actually give a nice ending to things! This problem, while not common, has been recorded after radical prostate surgery (found on-line...the doctor didn't know). It seems unfair that the one thing that might help him to feel better about himself is causing him physical pain.

The not wanting to be touched thing started soon after the op, when he first showed signs of depression (though I didn't recognise it to be that at the time). He also used to say that he felt empty and very lonely, and if I tried to discuss it he'd cry (VERY unusual for him). And, yes, he was a very tactile person before, though that tactileness was usually leading to sex (which I often found just too much as I felt that we couldn't just cuddle without it being taken further). So I guess he associates touching with sex. And now the roles have reversed? (I'm thinking as I'm goin here). What disorder were you thinking of? Thanks again.
Jools. X
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Hi Jools

If your H was tactile before his op then it's unlikely he has the disorder I was thinking of, which is a disorder called Asperger's syndrome. he would have been born with it and would have displayed traits well before adulthood. The reason your H's symptoms reminded me of it was the dislike of touching and the lack of compassion he's displaying, these are 2 of the commonist indicaters of the disorder. Whilst it's possible that he might have this disorder it's unlikely, though many people do manage to disguise it quite well until something else forces it out ( as in your H's case a serious illness or a bout of depression ) People with Asperger's ( or AS for short ) are quite prone to depressive illness as they have trouble emoting and tend to keep it inside.

It sounds far more likely that in your H's case , the op, the shock of cancer and the subsequent problems with sex and ejaculation have probably sparked off a crisis in him which brings home his own mortality and results in him shutting down emotions as a way of coping. Sadly this means shutting you out too.Not surprisingly he is reluctant to let go sexually if he knows it will be painful, so staying remote gives him some control when he is feeling a lack of control over everything else .

I'm surprised his oncologist hasn't investigated this further to try to reduce any pain or discomfort, my step dad was offered all kinds of help after his op, but chose not to take it. If your H is 2 years post op and still in pain, it needs looking at .

I think his self confidence has taken a severe knock and with any luck things will improve in time.

Take care

Helen xx

You're welcome jools.

[jools]

Hi everyone, and especially Helen who has been so enlightening on the subject of depression. Thought i'd update you on my journey for solutions. Two things have happened that have made me more hopeful and peaceful than ever. Firstly I decided to sit my husband down and explain how I needed help from him as I felt that I wasn't coping well with our situation (I wasn't being selfish, I just thought he'd be more receptive to this approach). I explained my need to feel secure in our relationship. I said that I understood how he was feeling but I wanted to know whether he viewed me as his life partner, his soul mate. I wanted to know how committed he is to our marriage. He assured me of his commitment and said there never had been anyone else nor would there be. I told him that I was convinced that he was depressed and he asked what we should do about it. I didn't push too hard as I sensed that he was a little overwhelmed by the thought of what the treatment might involve. I said to wait until his blood test came back (psa check and testosterone check).

The test has revealed that his testosterone level is low and we are both convinced that this might be the root of his problem as so many other things fit that particular profile (weight gain, depression, loss of muscle mass, loss of libido, tiredness in the evening, muscle aches, lack of stamina for exercise...the complete opposite of what he used to be). It's the first time in years that I've actually seen him hopeful. He seemed relieved that that might be the cause of things. Our only problem now is whether he will be allowed testosterone replacement in the light of his history with prostate cancer (his psa came back 0.1 which is as low as possible).

Anyway, I honestly feel that we are reaching the end of this awful journey. Although my husband is not "cured" I at least feel that my marriage has been given back to me and he seems less scared about what's been happening to him... and far more communicative. I feel that we are working as a team again. So thanks to everyone who encouraged me to consider depression as I would never have investigated the possibility of testosterone deficiency without taking that route. Thanks Helen for saving my sanity on a number of occasions, also Concerned reader and Kate. Hope this bubble doesn't burst. I'll let you know!
Love Jools.
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