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Old 21st July 2010, 07:40 AM   #106
UpandDown
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Re: I want to understand

Hi So Alone

You never need to apologise for what you say on here. You don't need to be "very good". You're going through the worst moment in your life against your will and with no control. It would be strange if you were being "very good"!! We've all been stuck records at some point. It's only in the last week that I have been able to stop talking about Dan at 90 miles an hour. I have just been going on and on and on for three months. Noone minds - everyone understands we just need to do it! You will get past all this one day. I know what you mean about thinking you should be getting over but it feels like you're only just starting to go through it. I know that feeling well. I used to miss how I felt before at each stage. I don't now as this bit is definitely the best I've felt so far.

Great news about the solicitor. It sounds like she gave you some sound advice there. If you can go through with the divorce it might help to free yourself. Regarding not realising you were in an abusive relationship, I wouldn't be too hard on yourself. It can creep up on you - well it did in my case and I made excuses for him at every step. If you're like me you allowed it to happen because of something within you that, combined with the fact you loved him, felt you should put up with it (in my case, the fact I believed from childhood I am difficult to live with.)

I can understand how you felt like you were betraying him, we are loyal people and this is all very much against the grain.

Glad to hear you are eating and drinking a balanced diet!! Don't worry about your hair, it will grow back when this is all over.

I really related to your comment about being thrown out with the rubbish. I think there's something in what Helen said. It's like the only way they can do it is to go totally overboard in the cold department. I also relate very strongly to the feeling of being unlovable. I had that feeling up until about a week ago and I'm starting to feel a bit better now I am doing things for myself and remembering who I was before I met him. I found it helpful to list my good (and bad) points. Forced me to be realistic about myself rather than this generalised feeling of being bad.

Re the anxiety, you're doing really well. Don't expect so much of yourself. You are holding your job and your home together - that's enought. Try not to let the anxiety stop you moving forward and it will receed. If you find it getting really bad it might be worth a trip to the GP for some short term medication.

I don't think he dislikes you, I think he dislikes himself.

Feeling pointless is completely normal and will pass.

And the answer to "What on earth could he possibly want out of life to behave like this?" he has NO idea!

Well done for everything you are doing. You are brilliant and you will get through this. Can't wait to meet you in person.

Love Kathryn
x
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Old 22nd July 2010, 05:14 PM   #107
Wiggle
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Re: I want to understand

Hi SA,

I just spent about two hours typing a great long reply full of gems of wisdom (honest!) and the bl*sted machine has just gone and lost it. The air is somewhat blue over here...

But basically I second everything Kathryn says. We've all done the record thing, not being able to think about anything else, lost weight, felt pathetic etc. It's fine, it's all normal and we understand.

Do not ever think you'e no good. It's the emotional abuse he's put you through that makes you feel that. You are not rubbish, and I don't believe he thinks that either - he loathes himself, and transferred that onto you.
He can't take the pressure of a relationship now, nor, from what you've said, has he ever been able to cope with a relaitonship before. And he won't in the future until he deals with the rubbish in his head. Sad part is his family, by telling him it's ok to act like a jerk, are 'enabling' him, and he'll never address his issues whilst they validate his behaviour. He's trapped. But the issues are all his; not yours, and you can't fix him.

Don't let yourself be trapped with him.

Abusive relationships - don't feel daft for not realising, join the club! It took me years to realise how abusive my relationship had got - he was never violent, never shouted at me nor called me names, but witheld affection and constantly criticised me. I have aerythmia - irregular hear tbeat - that's made worse by stress, and it's been soooo much better since I moved out, although it's not what I wanted. You will start to feel stronger, away from his negative influence. It's not a quick process though.

Glad you've got a great solicitor.

He has no idea what he wants out of life. My depressed ex said he 'wanted to do what he wanted to do, when he wanted to do it'. But he hasn't got a clue what he wants to do, or when....

You are intelligent, loveable and loving, loyal, honest, creative, deep, spiritual and funny. We think you're great, and we've not even met you (soon to corrected, I hope!). Your parents love and are supporting you. They know you inside and out and still love you.

Huge biscuity hugs (no crumbs in the bed, please!)

Aaxx
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Old 25th July 2010, 01:54 AM   #108
So alone
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Re: I want to understand

Hey Guys,

want to say thanks. Thanks ever so much for all your kind words. the past few days have been some what turbulent for me since I went down on Tuesday/Wednesday to 'have it out' with him.

not sure where to start so will try to keep things to the point and relevant. I have had a few large brandies this evening as it seems to be what I've needed. I am now on the chocolate...

Well on Wednesday morning decided to go with the element of surprise so turned up at my hoous at 8.15 am. key wouldn't work so was banging on the door. Got let in to find his 'mate' Jim had kipped over and they were both hungever from getting laggered the night before. Got a load of verbals off Jim but eventually he left.

And there I stayed with H, shouting, talking, yelling, being calm, talking being calm, yelling, crying. For 7 hours. The crux of what he said was this. he doesn't want a divorce.. He knows it would be all too easy to do that and also that he knows that's why I turned up unexpected but he doesn't want that. he said he want's to be friends. Wants to rebuild our friednship and then hopefully 'date' and then hopefully build on that to taking me out or something and then see where that takes us. I said I wasn't sure. He said he can understand that. he said he can't see how it's going to work but feels he doesnt' want to throw us away without trying first. I asked him to kiss me. he did and said he very much liked it. I very much liked it.

i found his phone and messages to some girl (who even has the same name as me!!!!!!!!) so I called her and she had no idea. He snatched the phone back from me and deleted the messages. he said he was sending them to her but hadnt since last sat as he said he felt wrong to do so. promised that he had not met up with her. Said he thought that her having the same name as me was irony - it was fate telling him to sort things out with me because of the same name and also because although he initially thought it would boost his ego he said it actually didn't it made him feel worse.
He said his friends and family would practically disown him if he got back with me!
I saID WHAT THE FLAMING HELL FOR?!
He said they think he is better off without me. I said what the bl00dy hell have i ever done that is that bad? He said nothing, but admitted that he is being a very selfish person. Said he realises now that he has been very selfish. Admitted to not ever being quite honest about his feelings. Admitted to never being able to because he has always been like that. Said he has been pondering as to why he is and has been like that his life and to others. He said that he feels that he needs to sabotage his life so he doesn't succeed.
he said he would like to have a family with me and have a nice house etc. He also said that he feels he is too old and has missed the boat.

he said I looked sexy and I know and he knew he was aroused when we kissed.
I wanted him to want me.
He said he will absolutely definitely call me.
He admitted that over the past few months he has been 'losing the plot' that he knows that a lot of the things he has said and done have been really bizarre. Then goes on to say that it is me. He was crying a lot. Mind you so was i. He said he wants to get a room somewhere on his own because he feels it is best to move out and be on his own for a while. He said that me going on the attack is what puts him off but wants to be friends for a while and then more. Then says he can see why i go on the attack I kept saying I wasn't so sure but again, he kept saying he wants to try as it would be such a waste of our lives.

He said he had been drinking pretty badly and by the look of him I could see that. he looked terrible for him. Said that for two days he didn't eat he just drank alcohol. Asked how I was. I said pretty good considering. He looked happy for me but sad that he wasn't doing so well by comparison.

he said that he thought of going to alcoholics anon a few times but couldn't muster up the courage. Said he had poured a lot of the alcohol down the sink but then couldn't help but buy more.
He talked about that counselling session he had and thought how much he knows is him and his doing.

Please help me because now I am utterly and totally in a place I have no idea even existed.
Do I believe him?
will he call? Hmm well I doubt that. Is this self protection?

Although, I received a text very late last night from him saying 'Goodnight x'
but the pessimist in me thinks maybe that was meant for that other girl.

i text him back this morning saying 'Good morning x' but i haven't heard anything since. I feel stupid for getting my hopes up. Mostly I feel hurt.

I am so stupid and so heartbroken. Surely he would have called me by now?
I have to go down again on Tuesday eve / Wednesday day. I am thinking that if I haven't heard anything from him before then that I will just give it all up.

I am surely better than this and deserve better?

I can't think straight but that might be the brandy.

Does he want our marriage or is it that he doesn't want to let me go?

I thought i was lost before but that isn't a patch on these feelings.

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Old 25th July 2010, 03:57 AM   #109
chosen
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Re: I want to understand

Have just read this whole thread and I cant understand why you still keep enabling his awful behaviour. Carry on with the legal seperation and after that the divorce. Dont let him keep doing this to you, Dont let yourself get hopeful again only to be let down again. You are allowing him to treat you like this, and you dont have to.Stop trying to work out why he does this, or why he is saying that, he is damaged and mentally disturbed and is probably totally irrational. His family are toxic and evil and also disturbed.

He has made you very ill and the only way that you will ever recover and heal is to cut him out of your life and cut his awful dysfunctional family out of your life. By this I mean block all texts, phone calls, e-mails etc from him and them and do everything through your solicitor.Change your phone number if you have to. You need never to suffer any of this again, it is your choice.You are the only one who can shut that door. You are the only one who keeps allowing all of this to happen.

He is clearly deluded and had severe persoanality problems which by the sounds of it he has got from him awful parents. I suspect that he has always been like this but you just chose to over look it before, or not notice the red flags.
So decide you will take no more and dont. You dont need to, and you dont have to.You have no children so there is absolutely no reason to ever have to see or hear from him again ever. Move right away to be near your parents, dont tell him your address, and start a new life. You will gradually heal physically and emotionally. As long as you allow him to muck you up you will be ill and will probably get worse.
Dont let it happen anymore. It really is your choice and no one elses.
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Old 25th July 2010, 05:30 PM   #110
UpandDown
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Re: I want to understand

Hi So Alone

I have just read your last post whilst the kids are eating tea and I have to say I completely agree with what Chosen says.

I'll call you later when kids are asleep - I definitely think you need the book I am reading (It's called Boundaries and it's very good! I think I must have recommended it to everyone n here by now but it changed my life literally.)

You do need to stop taking responsibility for him and stop allowing yourself to feel blamed and I agree that cutting him out of your life is the way forward.

What do you think, Wiggle? SA's OH sounds just like yours!!

Love Kathryn
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Old 25th July 2010, 05:30 PM   #111
mdmquincy
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Re: I want to understand

Oh dear, I don't know what to say! You are being mucked about so. No one can know what to do but you, but I feel like you already knew. You still know.
I'll you no matter what you decide, but do take care of yourself.

Love you,
J
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Old 25th July 2010, 06:52 PM   #112
So alone
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Re: I want to understand

How did I get to have M U G tattooed accross my forehead in large letters? Why have I become such a weak minded fool?

I know you are all right and I do know it too.
It is killing me.
I know i need to put a stop to this misery and I know I am enabling it to carry on.

I guess there is something in my head, namely him, telling me I am to blame for everything and therefore I will be at fault for throwing us away.

I don't want to be at fault for doing that. It is to unbearable to contemplate. Especially because he has thrown us away not me.

It is like a deep pain, that I then think I do not want to throw it away because I do not want to throw away the good parts that could be good again.

I hurt so very much. I do not know how on earth to be me. I am so afraid of hurting any more I can't bear it. I do not want to even think about it. I have started to do what he does and that is to distract myself and my thoughts. Anything will do not to think about dealing with it.
I have wet feet from living in denial.

Everyone (the few people I know) up here is married and has children and seems to be living a regular life. I am stuck and think that it is best to shut myself and my feelings away as I'll never have the happy life I want.

God I really feel sorry for myself. What a horrible pointless mess.
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Old 26th July 2010, 12:27 AM   #113
UpandDown
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Re: I want to understand

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Boundaries-P...0100408&sr=8-3

This is the book I'm always banging on about! "Boundaries: Participant's Guide: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life" by Cloud and Townsend

x
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Old 26th July 2010, 11:02 PM   #114
So alone
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Re: I want to understand

I have made a purchase from Mr Amazon....

I certainly need it because he called me today.

I have spoken with a male friend all day about my pathetic situation. Feels much better but also feel like i wish I could run away more and more.
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Old 26th July 2010, 11:10 PM   #115
UpandDown
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Re: I want to understand

Oh dear - do you want to call? I'm up
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Old 26th July 2010, 11:33 PM   #116
So alone
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Re: I want to understand

just seen your message. I will if your'e still up as that was half an hour ago?!
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Old 31st July 2010, 12:05 AM   #117
So alone
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Re: I want to understand

Well, after going down on Tuesday and seeing him, in a nutshell he loves me and wants to sort it for def. I don't believe him because I am that afraid of any further hurt I just cannot believe him. I stated that I would have to have my needs met. I told him a few of them.

He told me that I was right about his friends and family turning nasty. told me that they are behaving as 'if the gloves are off' and saying all sorts of horrible things about me. he (apparently) told them to back off and to remember that the person they are slagging off is still his wife. I lost the plot and went ballistic. Saying 'see' what the heck have i ever done to deserve such berating?!!!' He said he knows I haven't done anything at all and hence why he told them to not be so flaming bad about me. We had an argument and he let me shout and he shouted and said he might as well not bother wanting to sort things and I said see you're just all talk. he then let me shout and yell and then when I came back said he loves me and cuddled me and said he wants to sort things out. That he knows things won't be easy. First time in a long time he has done that in an argument. I asked him about his business and after telling me he also told me that he knows his business is useless. I said well why do you do it then? That he barely breaks even with money and the same old problems are still happening. (wow what a surprise..not.)

He said he knows he has issues and knows he doesn't know how to sort them. I said he would have to accept he has these issues and they are nothing to do with me and would need counselling at the very least. he said yes. I gave him 24 hours to call for an appt.

We kissed a bit and it was nice. he said he has loved me from the day we met. he cried a lot and put his arms around me and said he does want to be happily married and he does want to be married to me. he does want to have a family. I again reiterated that that is all very well but he has hurt me so much I didn't think it possible. He said sorry a lot but i said that is not enough for me. He said he knows I'm ready to throw in the towel and divorce him and he said that would be all too easy and again he doesn't want that.

The dilemma (one of a hundred) I am facing is I am not too sure how on earth this is going to work. Why is he being like this now??? I feel so hurt. He said he hasn't even got a room sorted out for him to move into as yet. the hurt overtakes anything else entirely and i find myself being unable to not get angry and lash out at him. I am not too sure how to express my needs because I am not really too sure what they are any more. Maybe i do but am too afraid to ask for them? I feel insulted by his 'needs' but wonder if i am really just still hurting and am very angry too? I do not want to be living apart. He does for a while. i do not think this will be any good for what I want but then equally it may help me see and know that I want to be on my own. (can't actually believe I really just said that out loud - er... maybe i didn't!) he has again and again said he wants us to 're-boot the system' and start sort of over but with all the good things from our marriage. that he wants to date me and take me out and rebuild our friendship. But we're already married and that to me is the key thing that I feel is overlooked. Dating is one thing but we have already done that or am i being a bit too hasty or ignorant or even naive? he has really gone on about how he doesn't know what he was doing texting that other girl and that he would show me any phone bills etc. because he has not done it since we last spoke. That he has not in any way cheated on me at all. I have asked many times. he says he thinks he has been going through some sort of crisis but then he says he feels like he should pull himself together. We are out of our house in less than a week. I broke down feeling so upset after watering our garden. he came home unexpectedly and just ran to me and put his arms around me. I told him I feel like the fact the plants were gasping for water is a metaphor for our relationship. that it hasn't been looked after and that it needs looking after. he held me and kissed me and said he loves me and wants to get it all back on track.

I need a brandy.


Hadn't heard for a few days so have been thinking the worst (naturally). Called him this afternoon and he said he had called for a counselling appt and left two messages but hasn't heard back so far. i know this to be true (more than likely as it can often take up to a week to get a call back for an appt.) I am just still frustrated and angry and hurt. It does not make for a good combination.
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Old 31st July 2010, 02:22 AM   #118
Downtown
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Re: I want to understand

Quote:
The dilemma (one of a hundred) I am facing is I am not too sure how on earth this is going to work. Why is he being like this now???
Please go back and read what I wrote about how BPDers (i.e., those with strong BPD traits) go through repeated cycles of pushing you away (when they feel engulfed) and pulling you back (when they fear abandonment). Their two greatest fears are abandonment and engulfment.

With BPDers, therapy rarely is effective only because they typically do not want it. For it to work, the BPDer must really want it badly for himself because it takes years and is very hard. Hence, if your H is agreeing to it only to secure your return, it likely will be a waste of time. Indeed, if he really wants it badly for himself, why did he not make an appointment and start therapy before talking to you? I would say, then, that you know exactly how this is going to work: just like the last time.
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Old 31st July 2010, 09:58 AM   #119
UpandDown
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Re: I want to understand

Hi hun

Where are you at with deadlines/ultimatums?

love Kathryn
x
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Old 31st July 2010, 04:20 PM   #120
Wiggle
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Re: I want to understand

Hi SA,

Got to say first; get yourself to a doctor. I think you're doing brilliantly, but all the stress and anxiety has got to be taking it's toll and they've got stuff that can help. It might help with the hair too!

I also think carry on with the legal seperation. He's mucked you about before...he needs to see you really mean business and have your finger on the trigger.

It all sounds hideously similar to the last time he promised he wanted to work on it, etc etc. so I don't blame you in the least for being very suspicious and angry. I think anybody would be in your shoes!

You're not a mug. I agree with the others to an extent - this does seem to be something of a merry-go-round you're stuck on - but I also understand where you are because it's obvious they're not right and who would want to walk away from a sick person? I understand the torment of not knowing if this is him or his mental issues speaking, what the right thing to do is, the mixed messages. I hate the mixed messages; they really hurt.

I think the counselling is a good start but I'm so worried for you that he'll go to the first session and declare it all a waste of time. I think you need to go with him the first time to ensure that he does go, and that he's truthfull in session. Counsellors can only deal with what they're presented with.

Would he go to AA if you went with him?

The idea of taking it slowly, dating again etc. is actually a good one I think. The previous relationship is dead in the water; I'd say you need to build up a new relationship and that takes time. I'd also say that he needs to earn your trust again and that also takes time. If he's depressed, wanting his own space for a bit is terribly typical, I'm afraid! Check out http://depressionfalloutmessageboard.yuku.com/ It's a board specifically for partners of people with mood disorders, including depression and BPD.

But I'm worried you're trying to make plans with someone who's got a condition and you don't even know what it is, therefore you're walking blind. I'd maybe add to your list of needs that he needs to see his GP with you present so that you can ensure he's honest and the GP listens to him? A good GP should understand that depression, whatever, affects not just his patient but his partner too.

I think Kathryn's spot on about boundaries (I've ordered that book too ) ultimatums and deadlines. I gave my ex six months to improve in (I didn't tell him; this was for myself so I don't waste the rest of my life waiting for him...) He's not improved in himself, but he is taking the anti-depressants and has just signed up for psychotherapy, so I'll give him another 6 months and see what happens whilst I get myself sorted. At the end of that I'll review, but if he still 'doesn't know' by the end of that I'm off. Maybe you could think about something like that?

Huge hugs - take care of yourself!

Axx
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