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Old 19th January 2014, 04:54 PM   #271
chosen
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

[QUOTE=magneto;77959]
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I would have to divorce if the same circumstances arose because of the reasons for it. I had been married for 23 years when I found out quite by chance, that my ex had been doing some terrible things and the police eventually became involved when I reported it a short time later. The day I found out I had to ask him to leave, which he did, and that was that. It was completely and totally devastating and so traumatic, but I couldn't see I had any choice. The few people I told later, including 2 pastors, agreed with me that I had no choice. I waited for 2 years and then divorced him. I wasn't emotionally strong enough to do it straight away, too busy trying to survive and keep my family going.

MY husbands marriage was never that happy, but he believes that when you have made promises you keep them, so he would never have ended the marriage. However she met another man at work after 23 years of marriage and divorced him anyway. She also cheated while the divorce was going through, so Biblically I do believe that he would have had reason to end it himself if she hadn't done.[/QUOTE

As you mentioned before, biblically speaking, the only reason for divorce is sexual immorality. So what happened for you the first time around?

Another question I have is, why does the church allow people to remarry if the bible considers marrying a divorced person (other than by adultery) adultery as well? Not saying I agree with that, just wanted your perspective.
The word Jesus uses is 'pornea', which means sexual immorality. Its where the word porn comes from. Its used in the bible to mean different types of sexual sin and not just adultery. I would even agree that long term porn use by one or other spouse would be grounds for divorce.
If Jesus had meant just adultery he would have used a different word which means that alone. MY husband sins came under the sexual immorality' heading.
Churches all differ on what they think is right. I have heard many different Christians say many different things when it comes to divorce and remarriage. After many years of reading and listening to teaching and studying for myself, I have come to the conclusion that divorce is allowed for specific things, that even though God doesn't want His children to divorce(unless for specific things) He does recognise that a divorce ends a marriage. I doubt my pastor would marry a couple where one had cheated on their previous spouse or when one or both had simply got bored or fallen out of love, as he is very pro 'marriage for life'

As for remarriage, well both my husband and I had spouses who committed 'pornea'. neither of our spouses have married again(as far as I know with my ex). I believe that the innocent one can remarry, but I have not been able to come to a specific conclusion as to the one who did sin.
Maybe if they were totally repentant and sorry, God would bless them in that way again, but even if we are 'allowed' to remarry, God may not want us to for whatever reason.

I am sure my husbands ex would love to remarry, but women in their 50s have little chance if they only want a Christian man. My sister in law too is in that position, wanting to marry again and in her 50's, but there is little chance for them sadly.
Of course God is very wise. We recently went on a marriage weekend and strangely enough all the couples except one were on second marriages(very unusual according to the leaders). They all without exception had had really serious issues in those second marriages, because of ex's and step kids and all sorts of baggage that both had bought in. That's why 2/3rds of second marriages fail I suppose.
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Old 19th January 2014, 04:56 PM   #272
chosen
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

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If you really look at what the bible says, even if i killed 20 people my wife wouldn't have grounds for divorce. Unless I was caught and put to death. Even then she couldn't remarry without committing adultery. Just saying..
Well you would either be put to death or in prison for the rest of your life, and then you have effectively abandoned her through your own actions. Then she would be able to end the marriage. If you were put to death of course she could remarry.
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Old 19th January 2014, 05:03 PM   #273
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

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intially we both agreed to not be together. she started having a change of heart, and i didn't. since i wouldn't commit to changing my mind or working things out she left.

on your first point...that's why i made that statement. wisdom should always be used. there are many other examples i could mention where a person would want a divorce, and using wisdom would make them understandable. even the adultery thing is hazy...according to the bible even the thought of lusting is the same as the physical. so technically probably 95% of marriages have a biblical cause for divorce.
Lusting is adultery of the heart, not physical adultery. I agree with Raymond that if one spouse abandons the other, which includes divorcing them against their will when they havent sinned,(as in my husbands case, although she did cheat as well we found out a bit later) then the one left can remarry. Not sure about the one who does the abandoning/divorcing though.
In my husbands case their pastor told his ex that she had no reason to be ending the marriage, but her answer was to leave the church and do it anyway. She said, 'No one is going to tell ME that I cant get divorced', not even God it seems, maybe why she hasn't married again.
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Old 19th January 2014, 06:18 PM   #274
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

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Lusting is adultery of the heart, not physical adultery. I agree with Raymond that if one spouse abandons the other, which includes divorcing them against their will when they havent sinned,(as in my husbands case, although she did cheat as well we found out a bit later) then the one left can remarry. Not sure about the one who does the abandoning/divorcing though.
In my husbands case their pastor told his ex that she had no reason to be ending the marriage, but her answer was to leave the church and do it anyway. She said, 'No one is going to tell ME that I cant get divorced', not even God it seems, maybe why she hasn't married again.
According to the scripture, there is no difference between lusting of the heart or flesh. It's still considered adultery according to the bible, which is considered sexual immorality.
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Old 19th January 2014, 07:34 PM   #275
chosen
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

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According to the scripture, there is no difference between lusting of the heart or flesh. It's still considered adultery according to the bible, which is considered sexual immorality.
When it comes to divorce it clearly means sexual immorality as in we commit sexual immorality with another person. Or are you saying that there is no difference between killing someone and merely being angry with them? I think the point that Jesus making was that these things start with the mind, and how serious it is to control what we think and what we allow our minds to dwell on.
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Old 20th January 2014, 10:40 AM   #276
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

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Nowadays I believe people are far less agreeable to continue on when things are going bad, and their needs aren't being met or satisfied.

I'm in my mid-forties and have been married 20+ years. She left about 5 months ago.
Yes. That seems to be the trend these days and of course, there are articles about church communities facing a similar reality.
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Old 20th January 2014, 10:47 AM   #277
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

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And I'm aware that she has not been happy with me. This is a mutual feeling.
You have attempted a few times to save your relationship.

Your wife might eventually want to come back or you might want her back at some point. However, at the moment, it might be worth having your own time for reflection (as you are doing). Take care.
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Old 20th January 2014, 10:50 AM   #278
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

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I didn't want my son(the oldest child) to feel as if he was the surrogate husband or father or that he was in anyway responsible for looking after me and his sisters(because he wasn't).
Commendable. Extremely, laudable.
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Old 20th January 2014, 10:59 AM   #279
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

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I'm not comparing her in the sense of other women being better. It's more "I can do bad by myself". Every person has their issues. I'm sure if I found someone else, there would be something about them I'd have to deal with as well. So "far better than this" is very subjective.
Knowing that you were with her over 20 years, my previous comment wouldn't really apply to you. I wasn't sure if you were with your wife approx. 5 years previously. With 20 years mark, you probably have done your best far more than average. I personally don't think marriage is easy despite millions of "how to" books. Nobody says it is. There are loads of books on the subject. Some are written by Christians. Knowing how many people do divorce in reality, there's no simple or easy fix for everyone.
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Old 22nd January 2014, 07:32 AM   #280
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

Give both of you a chance to be happy.
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Old 22nd January 2014, 01:57 PM   #281
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

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When it comes to divorce it clearly means sexual immorality as in we commit sexual immorality with another person. Or are you saying that there is no difference between killing someone and merely being angry with them? I think the point that Jesus making was that these things start with the mind, and how serious it is to control what we think and what we allow our minds to dwell on.
This is what I meant before about picking and choosing as christians. When i went to pre-marriage counseling the minister specifically told me not to go to strip clubs, because thinking and lusting of women other my wife is adultery in god's eyes, and grounds for divorce. "“You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." There is no reference to thinking of killing and killing being the same thing in the bible, only about adultery. Now we can interpret that to mean one thing or the other, but it was written.
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Old 22nd January 2014, 02:07 PM   #282
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

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Yes. That seems to be the trend these days and of course, there are articles about church communities facing a similar reality.
I think the issue church communities are now facing is peoples quest for knowledge. When I grew up in church, you did not question anything that was taught. As i got older i saw how times began to change. My nephew would ask "why don't they mention dinosaurs in the bible if it covers all of history?" "How could less than ten people build an ark to hold 2 of all the animals on the planet?" Most ministers won't even try to answer the questions with anything logical, which doesn't fly today with internet.
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Old 22nd January 2014, 03:49 PM   #283
chosen
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

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This is what I meant before about picking and choosing as christians. When i went to pre-marriage counseling the minister specifically told me not to go to strip clubs, because thinking and lusting of women other my wife is adultery in god's eyes, and grounds for divorce. "“You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." There is no reference to thinking of killing and killing being the same thing in the bible, only about adultery. Now we can interpret that to mean one thing or the other, but it was written.
I think that we all know that going to strip clubs is wrong surely?How is that going to help anyone not to lust?
However when Jesus says that sexual immorality is grounds for divorce he means the actual physical áct, and that's because the act of sex seals the marriage covenant, and the act of adultery destroys it.
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Old 22nd January 2014, 03:54 PM   #284
chosen
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

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I think the issue church communities are now facing is peoples quest for knowledge. When I grew up in church, you did not question anything that was taught. As i got older i saw how times began to change. My nephew would ask "why don't they mention dinosaurs in the bible if it covers all of history?" "How could less than ten people build an ark to hold 2 of all the animals on the planet?" Most ministers won't even try to answer the questions with anything logical, which doesn't fly today with internet.
We can do our own searching in the Bible and on the internet if we have questions. There are so many amazing Christian teachers now both on TV and on cd's. I have never been one to accept whatever I am told, and have heard countless teachers and read countless Christian books over the years. However there are some things in the Bible that are pretty clear and that dont need much explaining.

You can leave your family if you choose to, as long as you know its not what God wants.
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Old 22nd January 2014, 04:01 PM   #285
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Re: I don't love my wife and never have...

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I think that we all know that going to strip clubs is wrong surely?How is that going to help anyone not to lust?
However when Jesus says that sexual immorality is grounds for divorce he means the actual physical áct, and that's because the act of sex seals the marriage covenant, and the act of adultery destroys it.
Pornography is definitely considered sexual imorality, and their is no physical act.
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