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Old 30th December 2012, 09:44 PM   #406
WishfulThinking
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

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Originally Posted by Forever View Post
Hahaha! After what he has to go through and has to now put the OW through, you can bet he will never stray or try to get involved (without you too) with another woman! He has no idea what he even put YOU through. It may be that you will suffer "post trauma" symptoms...most do. However, I am hoping that wont happen...one way to minimize it is to get involved with doing things together on a regular basis...and do NOT ask questions of an "intimate" nature about the OW!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope you understand what I mean by "intimate"?
No. If he comes home to me..because he wants to...I'm convinced he will have learned his lesson and will never be tempted to stray again. Ha! His age is a little against him on this too..but this has shown of course it's never too late for some and how we cannot take anything for granted.

I hope I'm having all my trauma now, but we shall see...there will be some things that at least niggle I'm sure. Yes, I do understand what you mean by intimate...the temptation will be there, especially given the ED. Is it or isn't it? I'm still not sure because he was intimate with me for quite a while after he developed this problem. Then again, a new love could have rectified it. I'm sure they would have found a way whatever the current situation.
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Old 30th December 2012, 09:45 PM   #407
Forever
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Just stay away from the "details" about her...it will only hurt you and wont leave your mind. When you did the "stupid" the other day, that was the beginning of TMI. Please do not go there.
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Old 30th December 2012, 09:56 PM   #408
WishfulThinking
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

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Just stay away from the "details" about her...it will only hurt you and wont leave your mind. When you did the "stupid" the other day, that was the beginning of TMI. Please do not go there.
No, I won't.
If he comes back to me because he's decided it's me he wants not her, it really won't matter too much anymore.
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Old 31st December 2012, 12:02 AM   #409
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Wishful..

Clearly you and I are made differently. If he did not pack his toiletries together and get home THAT day, I'd long have given him walking papers. He needs to bow out gracefully from HER??
What do you see in this shallow, selfish man that you put your dignity, humiliated at every point,
and take it he will come back at his good time?

I'd have consulted an attorney and have separation papers served on him at the new (his chosen) address. Dear lady, you got crumbs here for this character. He is a liar, cheat, and despicable father for what he has shown his sons and he already went through the marriage go round with another before you. Doubtless he was in it with you before he ended that one?
You have nothing to salvage as I can see. He plays the he loves you, he loves her. What a popular 70 year old man he is!!

You are worth far more than the scraps he gives you. Chang the locks and cut off the calls. Let him stay where he is now. I bet he performs so poorly she won't want him long either!
Examine when the marriage was good and met your needs. Then make some decisions to move on without him.

Last edited by 1aokgal; 31st December 2012 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 31st December 2012, 12:51 AM   #410
Forever
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

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Originally Posted by 1aokgal View Post
Wishful..

Clearly you an dI are made differnetly. If he did not pack his toiletries together and get home THAT day, I'd long have given him walking papers. He needs to bow out gracefully from HER??
What do you see in this shallow, selfish man that you put you dignity, humiliated at every point,
and take it he will come back at his good time.

I'd have consulted an attorney and have separation papers served on him at the new (his chosen) address. Dear lady, you got crums here for this character. He is a liar, cheat, and despicable father for what he has shown his sons and he already went through the marriage go round with another before you. Doubtless he was in it with you before he ended that one?
You hae nothing to salvage as I can see. He plays the he loves you, he loves her. What a popular 70 year old man he is!!

You are worth far more than the scraps he gives you. Chang the locks and cut off the calls. Let him stay where he is now. I bet he erforms so poorly she won't want him long either!
Examine when the marriage was good and met you needs. Then make some decisions to move on without him.
Well, after 26 years together, it wont hurt to wait a few more weeks and see how things go...what do you have to lose for the effort? Your husband is now on the brink of returning and has just let you know that his heart is yours...pretty good start I would say compared to what he was feeling just four months ago...and it is not because he was rejected by the OW, but because his eyes are now wide open as well as his heart.
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Old 31st December 2012, 05:03 AM   #411
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

I guess the Xmas season would do it for me! That a man could love a woman so little, to live with another woman, during that special time. this behavior says to me he is a phony who presents a religious front as hea ttends church, while he cavorts in sin with another woman, after 26 years invested in him.

The fact he gives his wife these silly protestations of caring over the phone, belies his obvious behavior to remain where he has lived, since he abandoned his family. Dispicable behavior is an understatement! I see no resolve ever to be had with this man after this treatment. If his eyes are wide open he would walk out that door and get on home and not put his wife to such painful humiliation and sadness.

Who ranks first? After 26 years of marriage does he care how this OW takes it when he goes home? I think he is throwing a bone to his wife to gain some advantage, while he figures how he comes out of this terrible situation in better financial shape. I hope I am wrong about that but I would not trust a word he says.
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Old 31st December 2012, 08:59 AM   #412
Forever
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

I have to wonder who is really suffering the most humiliation. He will have to live with knowing what he did...what he is capable of doing even as a "religious man" given the right/wrong circumstances...while she will live with knowing that she held her head up while the gates of Hell howled against them both...forgave, held fast to hope, and finally through prayer and dignity, is winning back a chance for a better quality of love.

Hey, she can always kick him to the curb if she finds him to be impudent regarding his disclosures...but I seriously doubt he will be.

Who is forgiveness for? Is it not for the "dispicable" who want to find a way to repent from the heart? Or is it only for those who really have no true need of it? Is it just a cliche we throw around for the easy painless fixes? It cost the Father the life of His Son on our behalf...even while we were yet sinners and did not realize that we needed it so badly...until the "lights" finally come on.

I think, being he was generally a very caring person to begin with until his fall...that he is trying to find a way to do some serious "damage control" where is is staying. He knows that he is about to cause the OW to "bleed out", and likely feels very responsible for much of that...at least his share of it, and wants to put a tourniqet where it is needed if he can manage it...at least try to minimize some of the more serious bleeding.

WT held out the olive branch to him from the "get go" and never showed him an indication of being in torment even after she let him know that she knew what he had been doing...just that she had misplaced her trust in him...so he obviously believes her to be "stable" enough to allow him to do what he feels he has to do...even over the Holidays, and as dissapointing as it is. There will be far better celebrations for them than what they ever had if all goes well to look forward to.

Last edited by Forever; 31st December 2012 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 31st December 2012, 10:39 AM   #413
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Wishful,

You're a better person than me if you can live with this . I'm not sure I could live with someone who had shown such blatant disregard for my feelings .

I hope it works out the way you hope , I hope the waiting is worth it .

I wish you all the luck in the world , truly x
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Old 31st December 2012, 02:18 PM   #414
WishfulThinking
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1aokgal View Post
Wishful..

Clearly you and I are made differently. If he did not pack his toiletries together and get home THAT day, I'd long have given him walking papers. He needs to bow out gracefully from HER??
What do you see in this shallow, selfish man that you put your dignity, humiliated at every point,
and take it he will come back at his good time?

I'd have consulted an attorney and have separation papers served on him at the new (his chosen) address. Dear lady, you got crumbs here for this character. He is a liar, cheat, and despicable father for what he has shown his sons and he already went through the marriage go round with another before you. Doubtless he was in it with you before he ended that one?
You have nothing to salvage as I can see. He plays the he loves you, he loves her. What a popular 70 year old man he is!!

You are worth far more than the scraps he gives you. Chang the locks and cut off the calls. Let him stay where he is now. I bet he performs so poorly she won't want him long either!
Examine when the marriage was good and met your needs. Then make some decisions to move on without him.
Thank you, I do see your point but I'm just not yet ready to throw away a lifetime over one mistake, one that he is paying dearly for at the moment in many ways.
I really do not know exactly what has gone on and how long for. I do know though that we went away for our 20th wedding anniversary and there was nothing amiss then. The group we met there even thought we were newly weds, couldn't believe how long we had actually been married as the relationship was so loving and strong. (He had his ED problems by then too, so I am still not sure what the current situation on that is.) That's not to say I think all this started on another level with her that long ago, I do in fact think it came much later, but that's one of the things I've yet to find out.

I don't feel humiliated or that I've lost my dignity. Maybe partly at the beginning, the rejection, the realization that he was having an affair and had chosen her over me. The letter too was a risk, he could have decided not to read it, or read and dismiss the contents as irate ramblings, but even when sending that I don't think I lost my dignity.
Not once have I cried in his 'presence', begged or even asked him to come home. I've let him know that option was available to him, but until last night, have never asked him what he intended to do. Every conversation I've had with him on my part anyway has been as though he was still living here and he had just popped out or was away for a short while. I've always remained calm and in control. Ha!, I've even been my usual opinionated self at times telling him what to do with regard to the odd situation on other matters that have cropped up.

The humiliation now, and even the torment, is all his. He is the one who has to face what he has done and live with it forever. Not only himself, with me, but even more so perhaps with the boys being fully aware of what he has done. As a Father that must be devastating for him. Not only that but friends and neighbours too.

Until yesterday when I really was unsure of what he was trying to say to me during the call, I have never once asked him who he wanted to be with, who did his heart belong to and whether or not he actually intended to come home. In the early stages of course there would be no point, I knew what the answer would be, but his words over the last couple of weeks have given me renewed hope. I was always too scared though to ask the direct questions, fearing the answers. Even yesterday when I asked him I thought the best answer I would get was 'I don't know' and was in part prepared for that.

But I didn't get that answer, and for me at least now, the torment part is over. The torment was in not knowing, about all sorts of things at the beginning but lately, how he was feeling about me, was he or wasn't he going to leave her. Now I am prepared to wait a little longer and am just hoping during this time our contact increases..but on the whole I'm leaving that up to him. I'm hoping too I don't have to wait too much longer.

Quote:
he already went through the marriage go round with another before you. Doubtless he was in it with you before he ended that one?
Err no, I would never have done such a thing. When I met him he was living alone, his wife had moved in with another man over a year before and his divorce was in the final stages. She broke up the marriage, not him. The decree absolute came through about two months afterwards and she immediately re-married. We were married over two years later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1aokgal View Post
I think he is throwing a bone to his wife to gain some advantage, while he figures how he comes out of this terrible situation in better financial shape. I hope I am wrong about that but I would not trust a word he says.
Oh, definitely not. That I am sure of. He really doesn't care one jot about money and would never intentionally leave us in a situation of financial hardship.

Yes, I have described him as religious, but not in any straight-laced kind of way. He is quietly so, strongly believing in the goodness of God but ever conscious of his own failings. He has always done what he can for others too, which is sadly perhaps how all of this started. I suspect she presented as needy, then grateful until she managed to turn everything on it's head, starting with him feeling appreciated with her but not at home.

He has many good points too. I firmly believe this will have taught him the lesson of his life and that he will return to me as the man I once knew..if not a little more attentive and contrite. If it truly doesn't work out, then time enough then to send him packing. I don't think it would be any good to do it now in a fit of pique, it would be something I too would always regret. That option will also be open to me if needed once he comes home.

Thank you Helen. I didn't think I could do it either when full realization first hit me, but now I believe I can. Time will tell of course.

Last edited by WishfulThinking; 31st December 2012 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 31st December 2012, 09:04 PM   #415
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Wishful...

You are by far a better woman than this man deserves in how he has conducted himself. I think his relationship with his sons will always reflect their lost respect over his actions. So it is true, he pays a high price for the choices he made. It is your love and faith that all this will go away, and you can resume life as if this never happened, that defies reality. If I believed pigs fly, I would say your faith shames him and he will today return home a different man. I just don't think that will happen.
You are cut from a different cloth than I, because I would have taken his name off every fragment that remindeded me of a man who put my life and worth in such a distant priority. Helen said it best," the blatant disregard" for me would ensure I would burn his memory out of the marriage album. I'm sure I'd have ordered a new bed w/mattress to erase the thought I ever shared life with this man. Bitter or hate? No. Just a way to clean house and get out the cobwebs.

That is why I never spoke to my ex-husband again for now 34 years. I had an attorney handle needed communication. The degree of this story would have cured the pain or hurt injury and whatever love might have remained. The dirtier it got the easier to heal and move on. I'd hit the makeup counter, gym and peg the plastic credit card with some lovely new items and make contact with supportive friends. Those who won't talk about "what's his name." Don't lose time to rehas this story so you can heal. This is a very sad story this man would forget his marital vows and put his family aside for another. It happens all the time in todays' world. What can he be thinking?

I hope it works out as you desire, but I think you throw your time away fruitlessly. I am really sorry for your distress.

Last edited by 1aokgal; 1st January 2013 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 1st January 2013, 04:56 PM   #416
Raymond
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Whew have just got back and had time to read this (very full house over a long christmas).

There were some passages that I thought it was all over and now he chooses you WT and knows where he belongs. Reminds me of the prodigal son who went and wasted his life and inheritance. When he repented (I trust you have that) the Father forgave him, to the chagrin of his other son. Notice that the Father never ever asked him to come home. It had to come from the son when he repented, shown by the fact that he was willing to be just a servant. The Father then put a robe on him and didn't let him grovel but had a party with dancing. That is a picture of us and Christ but can also be reflected in part on here possibly.

Anyway I do hope he is good to his word and to what he expressed. No doubt he will be trying to sort his conscience before God as well as the OW. He has sinned and is therefore in need of forgiveness. Not only from God but from you WT, but note that God's forgiveness is always appropriated when repentance (change of heart) is real.
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Old 1st January 2013, 10:54 PM   #417
WishfulThinking
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

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Whew have just got back and had time to read this (very full house over a long christmas).

There were some passages that I thought it was all over and now he chooses you WT and knows where he belongs. Reminds me of the prodigal son who went and wasted his life and inheritance. When he repented (I trust you have that) the Father forgave him, to the chagrin of his other son. Notice that the Father never ever asked him to come home. It had to come from the son when he repented, shown by the fact that he was willing to be just a servant. The Father then put a robe on him and didn't let him grovel but had a party with dancing. That is a picture of us and Christ but can also be reflected in part on here possibly.

Anyway I do hope he is good to his word and to what he expressed. No doubt he will be trying to sort his conscience before God as well as the OW. He has sinned and is therefore in need of forgiveness. Not only from God but from you WT, but note that God's forgiveness is always appropriated when repentance (change of heart) is real.
Thank you Raymond. It has been a bit of a roller coaster and of course it isn't over yet.
Yes, the parable of the prodigal son...with my youngest taking the place of the brother feeling I shouldn't have a man who has cheated back under any circumstances.
I believe I have his repentance...he has told me he can't begin to tell me how sorry he is many times.
I sincerely hope he is good to his word and to what he expressed too, but I really do not know what the problems he is facing are at the moment so I am just having to wait a little longer.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 08:45 AM   #418
Raymond
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Very wise WT. I know you are the type who wants to know the details of what is happening now but you have to leave it. If he is coming home it is because he has repented and wants to come home. Your part is to be able to forgive, provided all is in place. As for your your husband he will have to have the fruits of repentance to win back the son. This will take time and he will need to be humble enough to apologise to your son and ask his forgiveness as well. He will have his work cut out in mending relationships no doubt.

Forgiveness never condones sin but can wipe the slate clean when repentance is there. We all need this daily in our walk with God. We are even told that if we cannot forgive others neither will our heavenly Father forgive us. We are all guilty at times and always need forgiveness. We don't need to live in condemnation once we repent.
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Old 2nd January 2013, 12:18 PM   #419
WishfulThinking
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

I really do feel I can forgive him completely Raymond. The anguish and pain I felt when he left and then later when I realized what he had done, has now all gone. (There have been no more denials from him since I sent the letter.)

This was then replaced by the torment of wondering whether he really meant what he was at least indicating, when he said he was sorry, was he really repenting or was it just guilt over the pain he had caused? After asking those two direct questions and receiving the answers I did on Sunday my anguish is now mainly for him. The sooner he comes home the better and we can start to unravel all this mess.

He is now being punished if you like for his lapse, and will continue to be punished for the rest of his life in one way or another. I know this and feel no need to add to it. All I can do now is be there for him.

I can't help thinking too, that although this has been the most traumatic and painful experience of my life, it is probably better that it has happened. This way, everything has been brought out into the open and we can try to move on and rebuild our marriage. It has also shown him where his true feelings lie instead of being swept along in a fantasy world, imagining life would be better elsewhere but feeling trapped and resentful with me. If he had not left and gone to her we would have just drifted along to the end of our lives in the same way, growing further and further apart.


Raymond, I do have another concern that I would like your opinion on. Would it be possible to PM you?
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Old 2nd January 2013, 01:25 PM   #420
Raymond
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Re: Advice and support needed please.

Forgiveness is always healthier for you WT even if it does not mean reconciliation (the other doesn't appropriate it, rather like most of the world does not appropriate Christ’s forgiveness through faith). Sometimes it takes time. The healing centres always start by getting one to forgive the past, otherwise they cannot receive healing.

I understand about whether something is repentance or just a guilt for getting it wrong. True repentance will always have fruit, like a change of attitude and corrected behaviours. Guilt on it's own is not repentance. We have enough of that in the world. Many will try to balance their guilt with other behaviours but that is not the same as repentance and appropriate forgiveness (slate clean - no condemnation or even guilt anymore). I know it is between you and him but it does parallel the spiritual as well. We have the vertical relationship and the horizontal. Same rules really. Restoration of relationship is what God wants as well.

I don't see the need for him to be punished for the rest of his life. By whom? There may be regret and consequences for his drifting but punishment does not add up if there is forgiveness which God freely gives where there is repentance. I think some of his problems come from religion.

I understand your point about following the fantasy and realising the emptiness of it. Most discover this too late but there is hope here. Reminds me of a place in the scripture where Paul, talking of a runaway servant, says that perhaps he departed for a season that he might be received back forever as a son. You have a point there.

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]

God bless




Last edited by Raymond; 2nd January 2013 at 08:09 PM.
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