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Old 25th March 2011, 02:15 PM   #61
Raymond
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

Giving a gift personally like that from a married man to a married woman is not a good idea. If I do it it is always a joint thing from us both so that there is no misunderstanding. It seems as if your husband JD needs to learn some protocol here.

It's as if he has not changed and all that's happened is that MFL has recognised the problem and is not co-operating with it. I hope I am wrong about him.

I agree with Chosen in that he needs counselling. Is he willing to have counselling for it? There is something deepseated there which he needs help for but the start is simply recognising it and wanting to do something about it.

Perhaps these gifts need to be from you both as a married couple. Maybe you would have more input on the decorum of it if that was so.
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Old 25th March 2011, 04:45 PM   #62
Forever
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

Jim's Darling,

Seems to me that Married For Life's husband is rather clueless about the level of antics and discomfort that his wife and Jim have been causing in your life? Perhaps now would be a good time to fill him in? Apparently, he is comfortable popping over which indicates he remains in the dark about the issues.

I cant help but wonder what we are supposed to be praying for here regarding Marriedforlife...so much is left unsaid and I am not good at generalities and superficial praying...I go for specifics.

I concure with Chosen. If Jim has been behaving this way through the other marriages he has had, over time, it would make any wife look like she is derranged, jealous, paranoid ect. She would start acting very much on the defense and even start imagining some things that were not necessarily there.

Last edited by Forever; 25th March 2011 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 25th March 2011, 04:56 PM   #63
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

Jim has a thing about buying gifts for people and then putting them in labeled plastic bags that he then stores in a bigger bag. I don't know when he had bought the Celtic cross for her (it could have been long ago) nor if he'd gotten it out to give to her for her birthday when she came over last night but never got the opportunity, or it could be that he had just left it out accidently when he was digging through his bag of gifts earlier looking for the ones he had for his brother. All I know is that the knife twisted in my heart again. He won't talk about it and I can't insist since we've had overnight company and will have through the weekend. Please pray that we get this resolved and I do intend to beg him to go to counseling with me. MFL sent me an email to say she thought it would be OK to come by with her husband and I think she had no idea it would go so awry. She said that she's praying for us and will drop out of our lives. I know she never meant to hurt me.
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Old 25th March 2011, 05:03 PM   #64
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

Even if Jim goes to counseling, he has stepped over the line too much with MFL. She will have to disappear regardless, and you and Jim can continue with other relationships apart from that one. MFL's husband has a right to know why things are strained and why his wife is no longer welcome...he can thank Jim for that, and his wife for being so responsive to Jims flirting and touching. You may want to print out the whole thread for her husband so he will get a more clear picture of things.
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Old 25th March 2011, 05:17 PM   #65
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

Although it's probably the right thing to do, I don't think I can tell her husband all. I really entertained the thought when I thought I couldn't stop things on my own but couldn't bring myself to tell him. I'm afraid her marriage wouldn't survive it and Jim might never forgive me.
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Old 25th March 2011, 06:08 PM   #66
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

That puts you in a very ackward position doesnt it? How then do you account for avoiding them and making sure Jim and MFL do not cross paths in the future? Perhaps Jim would not forgive you (that is called "blame shifting"), but as I see it, he is the one who caused the whole mess in the first place.

If MFL's marriage would not survive it, perhaps that is a strong indication that her behavior has been less than sterling? However, I would not sacrifice my marriage to save hers.

You should probably have a talk with Jim about what the boundaries should be here if you do not wish to involve MFL's husband. Like, Jim does not go over to their house, MFL does not go to yours...or email, text, facebook, ect. Your marriage is in trouble, the only way to back away from this cliff is that Jim responds to what he has created and gives full disclosure and cooperation. Otherwise, it will all blow up and everything will become exposed eventually anyway.
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Old 25th March 2011, 11:31 PM   #67
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

I don't know what MFL told her husband as to why she'd never come back but she said that did tell him that last night and I believe her. I also ernestly believe her when she says she's out of our lives and that she's praying for us as I am for her and her marriage too. There's really not a lot of reason for our paths to cross and I pray they never do. It's a bittersweet ending to a sordid story. Please continue to pray for us and please pray for a solid marriage for MFL and her husband too. I love you all and thank you so much! May God bless you as much as He blessed me when he sent you to advise me.
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Old 26th March 2011, 09:39 AM   #68
chosen
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

Jims darling, good on you. I am hoping that you and your husband can together agree on some godly boundaries about his behaviour with other women. Even though this particular situation may have been sorted, the way he acts with women generallly hasn't, and this situation may well arise again in the future with different women if it isnt addressed.
I do suspect that his behaviour may well have contributed to his previous marriages going wrong, as what he does is extreemly hurtful and wrong.
It wont stop unit it is addressed properly, maybe in marriage counselling or with a godly couple in your church. The root is still there and needs to be pulled up. Its like a weed, you can cut the top off (as has been done here) but the weed will just grow back until the whole root has been pulled up.

God Bless
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Old 26th March 2011, 10:20 AM   #69
Raymond
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

I think you are right about the root Chosen. That's what I got when I prayed. The behaviour can be modified but I am getting also that there is a root going way back probably from childhood. It might be a rejection there that is fed through the acceptance of these women. I don't know.
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Old 28th March 2011, 05:23 PM   #70
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

I both appreciate and don't doubt what the two of you are saying but since everything has turned so smooth for Jim and me, I have turned coward and can't rock the boat by suggesting counseling. He truly is contrite now and since MFL is out of the picture. . .

Jim felt quite homely growing up and was extremely shy around girls. His first girlfriend of any sort was at 17 and she became his first wife. I think he could have such a need to feel special and accepted because of that. It also is his nature to be extremely giving and he cares as much to be accepted by men as he does women (of course not in a sexual way) and loves to buy them gifts and thoughtful tokens too.

We can't go to another married couple in the church because we go to separate churches. We are both very Christian but he has been going to his church for 20 years and doesn't want to change. However, since it is more liberal and I am very conservative, I have continued to go to my church. I hate this but it's something else I pray about. I do believe we should be in the same church.

The flirting hasn't gone to such an extreme until now and, unless it gets out of hand again, I intend to just watch and pray and enjoy the wonderful, warm relationship we have going right now. I agree that we probably should go but since I really don't think he will agree to go, I'll just hang in there.

Again, thank you so very much and may God bless you as he has me.
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Old 28th March 2011, 06:15 PM   #71
chosen
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

yes do pray about the church situation. Personally I feel it is very important that a married couple go to the same church. If they are both teaching the whole gospel truth then maybe some sompromise may be necessary. Could you even go alternative weeks to each others church? Not ideal, but better then always going to seperate churches.
Ask God to show you what to do, and be open to making changes if God leads you to do that.
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Old 29th March 2011, 12:43 PM   #72
Raymond
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

If he is contrite JD, that is something to be thankful for and maybe all you can hope for just now. Just enjoy the present with him. We are all works in progress and these past incidents would have underlined to him that something was not quite right. He probably has a gift there but taken too far perhaps.
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Old 31st March 2011, 12:39 AM   #73
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

Oh, my friends! I hope one of you reads this soon! Jim is out of town and I came home to a message on the answering machine from her husband. He seemed to know Jim is out of town and he asked me to call him. I don't want to but am afraid he'll keep calling til he gets me and we don't have caller ID. I'm afraid he'll want to know why I want her out of our lives and I don't want to tell him. If you have any suggestions, please help me! Pray all goes well. I just want this whole mess to go away and take her with it!
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Old 31st March 2011, 02:05 AM   #74
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

Is this feed becoming more and more like a soap opera? I'm sorry and I so appreciate you guys hanging in there with me. Well, he called. I tried hard to tell him nothing and to convince him to talk to his wife or Jim about it but I guess the cop in him came out and I finally broke. Pray for their marriage and for ours.
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Old 31st March 2011, 04:24 AM   #75
chosen
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Re: Q: At what point is touching no longer appropriate for just friends?

Jims darling. None of this is your fault, so please dont blame yourself. It may be the right thing that it came out and that her husband knows what was going on. They do need to know that there are consequenses to this sort of innappropriate behaviour. In fact I am very surprised that her husband hadnt noticed anything before, or that you were uneasy around her, but men dont seem to be as good at picking these things up as women are.
Did he seem angry?. Had he suspected or noticed anything before this?

By the way it is the middle of the nght in the UK, and thats why you havent had replies(except from me who cant sleep!!!)
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