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Old 15th April 2014, 04:29 AM   #16
chosen
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Re: Question for men - I would apreciate your candid opinion

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Originally Posted by edgya1234 View Post
Well the image was for a certain reason: to show that all of this thing of me being ugly, feeling sick of myself, feeling ashamed was just imaginary and that I had no reason not to feel attracted to my husband. In reality I was ashamed for being an unfit wife to the man I love and loves me back and as I said did not understand for the life of me what is going on. The only thing I knew was I could not do anything in bed. A woman can't have an affair while in love Or I can't.
My husband suffered in silence. I just wished he would have done something I don't know, pushed me more.
He let me discover by myself trying to be the sensible and loving guy. I took me two years Because in the beginning he jokingly told me NO to few things I wanted to try in our intimate life, I never asked again. My subconscious stored the NO's and shut my body down. I just realize today of all days that I wanted some different things from him and because of those NO's I was afraid and ashamed to ask.
Today I am hurt, he is really hurt and we both care for each other and we have no clue how to do anything. Of course I still have to know how to tell him what the reason was. I have no idea how he will react or what he will say
Therefore my question: what will a guy who loves his wife do to please her?
I am sure he will do what he can to please her as long as its not what makes him feel really uncomfortable. You said you had a very good sex life so him refusing one or two things didnt seem to affect that. Maybe they made him feel very uncomfortable. Maybe they were things that you had done with other men that you expected him to do as well. As you said men had always done what you wanted before, so it was a shock for you to have a man say no. However I think it was good for you to know that you cant always have things you own way. Marriage isn't like that, its give and take and compromise.

Women can feel bad about themselves and have a poor self image, no matter how pretty they are, and others can feel very sexy and attractive and desirable even if they are not thought to be physically 'attractive' by the worlds standards. Who really cares that much about what the worlds standards are anyway, they are so shallow and focused on one thing. What is inside can make all of us more, or less, attractive and beautiful, and its what lasts when looks fade.
Its all relative, and men are very different in the type of women they find attractive of course, just as women find very different types of men attractive. As long as we each find our own spouses attractive that all that matters. My husband is the only man whose opinion matters to me:-)

Last edited by chosen; 15th April 2014 at 04:35 AM.
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Old 15th April 2014, 01:05 PM   #17
Raymond
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Re: Question for men - I would apreciate your candid opinion

It seems to me that you read that joking refusal of this aspect of the bedroom as rejection Edgya when it wasn't meant to be a rejection of you. I think you read it wrong and perhaps have a self rejection complex deep down.

Can you say anything about your upbringing? Did you have a loving family? I suspect there was a problem there possibly?
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Old 15th April 2014, 08:11 PM   #18
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Re: Question for men - I would apreciate your candid opinion

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It seems to me that you read that joking refusal of this aspect of the bedroom as rejection Edgya when it wasn't meant to be a rejection of you. I think you read it wrong and perhaps have a self rejection complex deep down.

Can you say anything about your upbringing? Did you have a loving family? I suspect there was a problem there possibly?
My father. Yes I did a lot of counseling because of him. My parents divorced when I was six, my father was very much upset with me because I chose to live with my mother. He rejected me all my adolescence and accepted me only after the death of my mother. The part of the family that I loved the most is dead ( my mum, my grandpa and grandma). My father's side of family is more concentrated on achievements and stuff. Now my dad did a lot of things to make up to me and my step brother loves me a lot and I am very close to him. So I am better.
I still handle any rejection very bad. Basically I run away.
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Old 15th April 2014, 08:20 PM   #19
chosen
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Re: Question for men - I would apreciate your candid opinion

You said that your sex life was very good, so why did the fact that he may not have wanted to do one or two things worry you? In many marriages there is one person who doesn't want to do something that the other does, that's where compromise and understanding comes in.
When you are married you cant always expect your own way. Its not as if he was rejecting sex completely, which is what some people have to deal with.
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Old 16th April 2014, 12:38 AM   #20
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Re: Question for men - I would apreciate your candid opinion

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You said that your sex life was very good, so why did the fact that he may not have wanted to do one or two things worry you? In many marriages there is one person who doesn't want to do something that the other does, that's where compromise and understanding comes in.
When you are married you cant always expect your own way. Its not as if he was rejecting sex completely, which is what some people have to deal with.
Well things were more complex than that, some of them I don't want to talk about however:
1. I was not aware that this was the problem.
2. He was not taking care of himself like he used to ( he go fat for a period ).
3. We had some issues within the marriage because he had a time when he didn't want to do anything ( I mean with his life).

So I assumed I had other issues. This is new, I believe to possibly be the issue after just talking to you guys and having an "Evrika"moment just yesterday - or two days ago. And after he brought it up several times. However we needed the distance in order to fix things.
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Old 16th April 2014, 05:19 AM   #21
chosen
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Re: Question for men - I would apreciate your candid opinion

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Well things were more complex than that, some of them I don't want to talk about however:
1. I was not aware that this was the problem.
2. He was not taking care of himself like he used to ( he go fat for a period ).
3. We had some issues within the marriage because he had a time when he didn't want to do anything ( I mean with his life).

So I assumed I had other issues. This is new, I believe to possibly be the issue after just talking to you guys and having an "Evrika"moment just yesterday - or two days ago. And after he brought it up several times. However we needed the distance in order to fix things.
Why did him putting on some weight matter so much to you do you think? We all change physically as we age, many people gain some weight, that's life.
What did you want him to do with his life that he wasn't doing?
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Old 16th April 2014, 08:59 AM   #22
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Re: Question for men - I would apreciate your candid opinion

So because he didn't want to do this thing in the bedroom Edgya you felt rejected which turned into a rejection of him? You say you couldn't bear him to touch you after that. Am I correct or have I lost the plot?
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Old 16th April 2014, 12:53 PM   #23
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Re: Question for men - I would apreciate your candid opinion

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So because he didn't want to do this thing in the bedroom Edgya you felt rejected which turned into a rejection of him? You say you couldn't bear him to touch you after that. Am I correct or have I lost the plot?
Yes but:
1. Those are the insights that my subconscient revealed to me now - two days ago, while talking to you guys I thought about so many things. I was ashamed to talk about this before.
2. The psychotherapist I went to was a woman and although very qualified she had on little defect - she knows us both - and she chastised me for doing not having sex and she said just do it... and I couldn't
3. While I was not able to let him touch me we were having other issues and at that time I thought is because of that.
4. I realized now looking back that he is kind of lazy in general and he did not tried too much. He just told me few times while we were in bed and than stopped trying and I felt stuck. There were times I kind of wanted but I was too afraid of being rejected and did not say anything.
5. I remember now in the first years he told me once when we had a night of sex that married couples don't do this all the time.
6. Also in the previous years he let me initiate sex or ask for sex and he initiated himself when I was vulnerable like: when I was drunk, when I was sick, when I was half asleep, when he did something very bad and I was crying.

If I think of this it seems almost as he was intimidated by my status of a tough business woman and waited for me to become vulnerable. I also remember his mother telling me when he got home after his first week together that he said something like"I've meet a very beautiful woman I like very much but she is so out of my league".

Thanks Raymond, you are really supportive and your insights really help.
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Old 16th April 2014, 01:05 PM   #24
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Re: Question for men - I would apreciate your candid opinion

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Why did him putting on some weight matter so much to you do you think? We all change physically as we age, many people gain some weight, that's life.
What did you want him to do with his life that he wasn't doing?
He was too young to be speaking about "our body change thing" - he was just lazy, I mean that literally - he like to eat, go to classes, go out and play video games. At one time I stopped admiring him because he valued other things such as cooking ( I mean me cooking - he does not know how), order in the house and what I like is making money.
I am an overachiever - I wanted him to take advantage of the two years out of work and study more things in order to advance in life - he wanted to make more money, a superior position in life but he was not willing to put on the effort because things came to him very easy in life.
He also learns very fast and he thought that it is enough.
He wanted all things good in life but in Spain he had all very easy, not to much problems in life so he thought everywhere is the same
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Old 16th April 2014, 01:29 PM   #25
chosen
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Re: Question for men - I would apreciate your candid opinion

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He was too young to be speaking about "our body change thing" - he was just lazy, I mean that literally - he like to eat, go to classes, go out and play video games. At one time I stopped admiring him because he valued other things such as cooking ( I mean me cooking - he does not know how), order in the house and what I like is making money.
I am an overachiever - I wanted him to take advantage of the two years out of work and study more things in order to advance in life - he wanted to make more money, a superior position in life but he was not willing to put on the effort because things came to him very easy in life.
He also learns very fast and he thought that it is enough.
He wanted all things good in life but in Spain he had all very easy, not to much problems in life so he thought everywhere is the same
You cant expect him to be the same as you. To you money and a career seems to be your priority in life. Its not the same for many people who value other things more highly.
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Old 16th April 2014, 01:32 PM   #26
chosen
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Re: Question for men - I would apreciate your candid opinion

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Yes but:
1. Those are the insights that my subconscient revealed to me now - two days ago, while talking to you guys I thought about so many things. I was ashamed to talk about this before.
2. The psychotherapist I went to was a woman and although very qualified she had on little defect - she knows us both - and she chastised me for doing not having sex and she said just do it... and I couldn't
3. While I was not able to let him touch me we were having other issues and at that time I thought is because of that.
4. I realized now looking back that he is kind of lazy in general and he did not tried too much. He just told me few times while we were in bed and than stopped trying and I felt stuck. There were times I kind of wanted but I was too afraid of being rejected and did not say anything.
5. I remember now in the first years he told me once when we had a night of sex that married couples don't do this all the time.
6. Also in the previous years he let me initiate sex or ask for sex and he initiated himself when I was vulnerable like: when I was drunk, when I was sick, when I was half asleep, when he did something very bad and I was crying.

If I think of this it seems almost as he was intimidated by my status of a tough business woman and waited for me to become vulnerable. I also remember his mother telling me when he got home after his first week together that he said something like"I've meet a very beautiful woman I like very much but she is so out of my league".

Thanks Raymond, you are really supportive and your insights really help.
Many men do struggle with a women whose main priority is her career and earning lots of money. Men not surprisingly often want and need to be the main bread winner. I get that totally, maybe you need to as well? Men need respect from their wives, as women need love from their husbands.
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Old 16th April 2014, 01:41 PM   #27
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Re: Question for men - I would apreciate your candid opinion

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Many men do struggle with a women whose main priority is her career and earning lots of money. Men not surprisingly often want and need to be the main bread winner. I get that totally, maybe you need to as well? Men need respect from their wives, as women need love from their husbands.
Well in order to respect somebody he/ she has to earn it...? If he was the main provider we would probably never be here In the sense that it will be easier for him to go over things.
Now, when he is in the role of main provider, because my business went south due to various reasons, he is stressed out and he told me I have to help myself because he is not making enough money right now to keep paying the mortgage he had before marrying me etc.
So we are in a very bad spot. When I mostly need his help he is too stressed to offer it and calls me selfish for needing money from him...
Right now, I respect my younger brother more, at least he does not call me selfish for needing money for doctors and stuff
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Old 16th April 2014, 08:36 PM   #28
Raymond
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Re: Question for men - I would apreciate your candid opinion

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Originally Posted by edgya1234 View Post
Yes but:
1. Those are the insights that my subconscient revealed to me now - two days ago, while talking to you guys I thought about so many things. I was ashamed to talk about this before.
2. The psychotherapist I went to was a woman and although very qualified she had on little defect - she knows us both - and she chastised me for doing not having sex and she said just do it... and I couldn't
3. While I was not able to let him touch me we were having other issues and at that time I thought is because of that.
4. I realized now looking back that he is kind of lazy in general and he did not tried too much. He just told me few times while we were in bed and than stopped trying and I felt stuck. There were times I kind of wanted but I was too afraid of being rejected and did not say anything.
5. I remember now in the first years he told me once when we had a night of sex that married couples don't do this all the time.
6. Also in the previous years he let me initiate sex or ask for sex and he initiated himself when I was vulnerable like: when I was drunk, when I was sick, when I was half asleep, when he did something very bad and I was crying.

If I think of this it seems almost as he was intimidated by my status of a tough business woman and waited for me to become vulnerable. I also remember his mother telling me when he got home after his first week together that he said something like"I've meet a very beautiful woman I like very much but she is so out of my league".

Thanks Raymond, you are really supportive and your insights really help.
It appears to me like your feeling of rejection was getting in the way Edgya. I have the feeling that you sometimes read rejection when it is not there. Probably because of your past.

We are all damaged people so whatever his faults are or yours it doesn't really matter so long as you are both growing together. You had something together and you can get it back if you both want it. We all have intrinsic value and a crumpled up 10 note is still worth 10.

I feel you have to accept him as he is and he you. Neither of you should try and change the other but if you have love for each other you will both grow. Mother in law must be kept at bay of course as you don't need that control in your marriage. If he doesn't want to stay married there is not much you can do about it but you need to make sure it is not his mother orchestrating this.

I would say it is touch and go regarding this marriage. It really depends on what you both want in your hearts. Being a refuser doesn't help a marriage but you say he wasn't really trying so maybe your initiating would have helped there.
I would start maybe by explaining to him what you have said to us and be honest and even vulnerable about your problem of rejection and that you were not really rejecting him and explain that it's just a problem you can have. Even ask for his forgiveness if you can but don't grovel of course.

If he is open to mending things that should open the way for him to support you both as a married couple. At the moment he is certainly not living as a husband married to you.
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Old 16th April 2014, 11:05 PM   #29
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Re: Question for men - I would apreciate your candid opinion

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It appears to me like your feeling of rejection was getting in the way Edgya. I have the feeling that you sometimes read rejection when it is not there. Probably because of your past.

We are all damaged people so whatever his faults are or yours it doesn't really matter so long as you are both growing together. You had something together and you can get it back if you both want it. We all have intrinsic value and a crumpled up 10 note is still worth 10.

I feel you have to accept him as he is and he you. Neither of you should try and change the other but if you have love for each other you will both grow. Mother in law must be kept at bay of course as you don't need that control in your marriage. If he doesn't want to stay married there is not much you can do about it but you need to make sure it is not his mother orchestrating this.

I would say it is touch and go regarding this marriage. It really depends on what you both want in your hearts. Being a refuser doesn't help a marriage but you say he wasn't really trying so maybe your initiating would have helped there.
I would start maybe by explaining to him what you have said to us and be honest and even vulnerable about your problem of rejection and that you were not really rejecting him and explain that it's just a problem you can have. Even ask for his forgiveness if you can but don't grovel of course.

If he is open to mending things that should open the way for him to support you both as a married couple. At the moment he is certainly not living as a husband married to you.
He just called me an hour ago. I've talk to him and after the initial shock he told me he still thinks sex in the car is not an option because people can see us and I will freak out. He was like discussing what kind of things he will do or won't do with me and guess what he said he should go to counseling. We discussed those things and he told me that he fixed things in his apartment, the one he is still paying mortgage and I never get to see it because it was let.
Than he remembered he should go bat crazy again.
That I can live in the flat however he does not want to be with me. And I was OK you don't want me, are not attracted to me what the f.... you keep calling me and keep saying these things to me? And he was like...a good question.
He started to find justifications that I asked him for money when he went to Spain working - I was like" you are my husband, I had no job and no business at the moment who was supposed to help me? And he was like yes but he has debs - with his darling mother"; Than he started that I never listen, that he told me that this year is not good for me doing a master bla, bla. (He does not pay a dime for master).
That I never know how to save money, that I spent too much. That I should get a job that pays me 200 Euro / month so I should learn ( and I was like what the... this is what you want for me??? ).
I let him know that he doesn't get a say in what I do with my money and my life if he does not want me in his.
He admitted that he wasn't supposed to upset me when I was depressed (three weeks ago) but he still did it bringing the divorce up. That he cares about me and bla, bla. That he does not know if he want to be with me or is still attracted to me. (I was listening to him and I remember the last networking event I went to all the guys that all over themselves to help me with anything). So I was jokingly telling him - it is your loss baby and he went bat crazy like "do you think I will cry after you?" and I told him nobody controls what he does but himself.
So all this time I was thinking I show up and guys are falling all over and here I am crying my eyes out for this guy who is calling me to tell me all those hurtful things?? I never call him but he keeps calling me in order to do what? to ruin my Easter week?
Is like I swear he has a taste for drama.
And God he kept going until I said no more and I told him please don't call me if you just want to hurt me because I can't take it anymore and hang up.
So God help me I care about him, I want to be with him but I've told him that nobody is going to force him and he can do what he wants. I can't keep this up. Any week is the same, he calls me to say all those hurtful things. What for? If he does not get his **** together he can go do what he wants. I can't keep up with his ups and downs anymore. I will try to move on. It hurts the hell out of me but I need to keep positive.
I hope he will came back to his senses but is a very long shot. I don't know. It hurts like hell hearing him telling me all those things. I still love him bat again women do stupid things sometimes
I really appreciate you being here and trowing a helping hand. I feel so lost ...
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Old 17th April 2014, 08:51 AM   #30
Raymond
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Re: Question for men - I would apreciate your candid opinion

Edgya sorry you are going through this. I have to be brief as have to rush of to work but hopefully will look in later. To me it looks like he is still interested but knows there are things to sort.

If sex in the car was the thing he rejected I feel that is quite a legitimate rejection. People might see. Sex is a private thing between a husband and wife only. If you have exhibitionist tendencies you would have to curb those as it wouldn't be right. Don't you see that? Maybe he does love you but cannot take that sort of thing. I think he is right and being sensible here. Exhibitionism never built a good marriage and is really to do with lust which leads to emptiness. I hope I have not misread this but please correct me if I have.
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