Long term relationship on the rocks

This website has been helping me considerably for the past few weeks, so I thought I aught to contribute something myself...

Not married, and no kids, but we've been living together for 8.5 years and together for 9+

Things haven't been great for a few years. No hugs or kisses unless I asked for them, never any compliments, constant (and boy, do I mean constant!) criticism - he even had the nerve to winge about the fact I've got one deaf ear! I could never do anything right, which really hit my self-esteem. His get up and go had gone - his response to sugestions to going out was he 'couldn't be bothered'. His nickname was Mr Grumpy.

To be fair, he's a brilliant DIY'er, spent time doing up my first flat and is great at all the practical stuff. It had just got to the point where I'd rather spend the evenings on Ebay than in the same room as him 'cos we just argued...

Last year I told him I thought he was depressed, and begged him to go to the doctor. It took a few more conversations with me in tears to get him to go, but he eventually did. He took anti-depressants for a while but then stoppped. What I didn't know was that he then asked the doctor if he could see a counsellor, and has been going along for the last year (I only found out this January.)

So, this January we had a conversation which ended up with me moving into the spare room initially. The house is HIS, and always has been - he says he's scared he'd lose half of it (which is a. insulting and b. I could, theoretically, try for half anyway because I've been paying him rent effectively for the past 8.5 years...)

It knocked me for six. I stopped eating, ended up taking time off work sick, couldn't think straight - this has been one of the worst experiences of my life. I HATE waking up each morning a bloomin' wreck, with my stomach and head swilling around. Lost half a stone in a fortnight. My parents (ok, my Mum) persuaded me to move out into a rented room which, to be honest, I wasn't sure about because we'd very tentatively started to talk properly for probably the first time in the relationship. The fact that I didn't go off the deep end when we talked about it made him realise, he says, that he could talk about it (when have I EVER thrown a wobbly at him? I'm one of those that will bottle it up rather than scream abuse - maybe that's where I've gone wrong??!)

Moving out - best thing, looking back. It gave us both the space certainly I needed to have a damn hard look at myself. We had a couple of hard chats when I popped back to collect my stuff (he actaully missed one of his sacred badminton sessions to talk - OMG). I'd mentioned Relate to him twice but he'd dismissed it totally. Which sounded like the death knell to me, so I cut all contact with him except for terse e-mails re. collecting post and bits & pieces.

I'm being booted off the library computer (have no regular access to internet - my computer is still at his place...) so will continue tomorrow.

Huge admiration to all of you who are going through this with children - it puts what I'm going through in real perspective

[topro86]

Hi, well it's just sad! i mean nine years with someone and then this...huh! you have just scarred me a little, cause i am in relationship which lasts for 5 years, and that is the worst end i can think of! That is just not a short period, you have passed so much together..had so many nice and bad moments but at the end they all seem nice and unique, true? just wish you all the best, and hope you will be well soon! maybe even get together with him, when realize what you mean to him! regards!

OK, try to pick up where I left off!!

We’d actually started talking, and I decided to move out. I wondered at the time whether that was the right decision and he said at the time he wasn’t sure either as we’d actually started talking, and I do still wonder, but at the time staying in the house was making me ill with the stress of it all.

We initially had a couple of phone calls. He asked me what I wanted. I said I wanted old him back, the version I had met and wanted to be with. He sounded a little better after I’d said that. But he still wasn’t open to the idea of Relate.

I cut all contact with him for a week and a half at least. I was hurt, angry and a wreck. He eventually rang me (which was very nice) and suggested we meet up for a chat, and actually said he would research into Relate and look at making an appointment (!!!!). I agreed, so we met up in a pub after work. I was still angry and let rip at him a bit, telling him I wasn’t going to be a gap-filler or just someone there to stop him feeling lonely. He said he wasn’t sure the old version of him was coming back, with the counselling he’d been doing etc, which I acknowledged and joked that maybe what was needed was a ‘new, improved’ version.

I aught to say a bit about the counselling – he says that has made him realise a number of things. He can’t recall being hugged by his parents beyond the age of 7. He has no happy childhood memories (nothing nasty, just no happy ones) He lived by himself for years before I came along, and says it was very hard for him to adjust to doing *everything* together (I just assumed that’s what couples did, I suppose because that’s what my parents do…) He said he has difficulty with the ‘L’ word because he used it once with a previous girlfriend and got knocked back.

Now, this is the odd bit – after a few weeks by myself, the focus changed. It wasn’t something I consciously did, it was like someone had just reached in and changed the focus. I started having a hard look at the way I had behaved in the relationship. Maybe it was my Mum saying that he had done a lot for me, but she’d wondered what I ever did for him. And I realised (and it’s painful to admit, because it means accepting part responsibility for the way things have been) I’d been living in the house like a teenager- if I could have got away with hoovering once every 6 months, I probably would have! (and I have a cat). I hate housework, but it wasn’t fair to leave it all to him. He did try to talk about it, but not knowing how to, it came out as constant nagging and criticism – and we all know how the average human being responds to that…and I never responded to his romantic gestures. Looking back now, I think I was just too scared too…

So yes, I now realise that it takes 2 to make a relationship, and it takes 2 to quite thoroughly b*gger it up!

I asked him for a chat a week ago last Friday. I explained what I’d realised, and admitted that maybe there needed to be a new improved version of me too. He said he was happier by himself () and was regaining a sense of his old self, but that he was keeping an open mind about things. I mentioned the possibility of going on holiday together. He said that freaked him out (oh, joy). He also said that he wished I’d kept my mobile phone on more when we were together, because he thought a couple should send little texts to each other. To which I told him I wished he’d said that before, because I would have made more of an effort. He replied that he just didn’t talk, did he, and looked sheepish. He said that the walk we had on the beach last summer, he’d actually enjoyed. I pointed out he’d acted like a miserable g*t the whole day. He said that the time we spent at his mum’s reading books on the same bed, he actually enjoyed. Why the bl**dy hell did he not say so at the time? What do I make of that? Oh, the over-analysis!

His Aunt had died that week and he was away for the next week with work, so I offered to organise the Relate thing (I wanted to get it moving because I believed they may have a long waiting list). He was still up for that, so we’re going to Relate this Wed, all being well.

What a mess. Things I have learned, wish I’d realised earlier, and hope it helps others:

A) Don’t wait for the wheels to fall off before seeking help with your relationship! We get our cars checked out if they started making silly noises – why don’t we do that with something far more important?
B) Talk. Yes, every single relationship guru isn’t joking when they say it’s vital. The stupid thing I now realise is we didn’t talk about ‘stuff’ (and that includes sex) because neither of us were comfortable with it (as I said to him, it’s our similarities, not our differences that have caused this situation) but believe me, being in this mess is a DAMN sight more uncomfortable than talking would have been. Argh!!.
C) Appreciate!! It is so easy to take each other for granted. Yep, we made that mistake as well (I sometimes think the only relationship error we’ve not made – or I certainly haven’t – is infidelity…)
D) Take responsibility. There are two in a relationship. It takes two to muck it up. We may not realise what it is we’re doing / not doing (I didn’t) but in some way, we’ve contributed to the set-up of the relationship. (yes, it would have been nice to have been told in an adult, serious way – that’s where they’ve contributed to the mess…see B!!) It HURTS (I know) to admit it, but the good thing (I guess) is that at least once the problem/s are recognised they can be worked on. I’m not talking change who you are, but perhaps how you are (ie. be a bit more communicative, appreciative, romantic, in my case more domestic!) (how many brackets can I incorporate into a sentence? Let me count the ways…!) I’m not saying it’ll save the relationship you’re in now (I’m not sure it’s going to save mine…) but if we don’t address our own problems now, we’ll just cart them into the next relationship…and the one after that….
E) I absolutely believe it’s not your differences that cause problems, it’s how you *deal* with those differences. Yes, I’d love it if he were more intellectual, had a full head of hair, and liked dogs, but then he wouldn’t be him, would he? There’s something somewhere that says that there is no such thing as the perfect partner – we’re lucky if we get 75% perfection. So long as the other 25% of your needs can be met elsewhere (apart from the physical) there’s no reason why it can’t work. I can get my intellectual stimulation at evening classes and borrow friend’s dogs now and again. The grass is rarely greener on the other side (I might meet someone with 4 degrees, and find out he’s into S&M!!)

So where do I go from here? I’m scared that moving out was the wrong thing, because I think he’s going to find it harder to let me back in now he’s got used to doing what he wants, when. I’m scared I’m wasting time and emotion on something that he’s already written off. I’m scared I’m too old to find somebody else, and that all the men my age are either married, with kids, or just plain weird. I’m scared I’m trying to hang on to a relationship for the wrong reasons and I should let go. I’m scared I’m reading too much into what he says. I’m scared I’m over-reacting and being too negative. I’m scared of being alone for the rest of my life. I don’t want to re-kindle the first heady days of lurv, because I’m very suspicious of that stuff – I don’t think it lasts long term (and the 101 relationship help books I’ve read seem to agree on that one – hey, I’ve got something right for once!:-) I want to be in a strong, committed, ideally permanent relationship that works as a partnership, a team. I NEVER want to go through this again. Waaaaaiiil!

Thank you, mdmquincy, I'll keep going. It is incredibly comforting to read all the other posts. It makes me realise that others are going through the same, if not worse, and are coming out the other end in one piece. And the support you give each other is fantastic! Seven - I think you're doing incredibly well. I'm two months in and still waking up feeling nauseous, can't focus at work and have lost a stone. I just want to wake up one morning feeling normal!

My sister is going through something similar. She split with her OH 6 months ago now (discovered he'd had been cheating on her for over a year with a woman half his age). She is now on anti-depressants and says they're making a difference. She's got her appetite back and is not dwelling on it so much. I asked the doctor for some and got the prescription filled, but not sure whether I should go ahead and take them - it feels like giving in a bit?

Meeting him at Relate this afternoon. I'm hoping that the fact he's willing to go along is a good sign, scared he's just going along to keep me happy 'cos he feels guilty - I guess I'm scared to hope at all...

Ps. Love the idea of Hilda Ogden sweeping negative thoughts away ! I think I'll employ Mrs Overall....

[UpandDown]

Good luck at Relate. We had our first session 3 weeks ago. They start with an assessment then you get a regular slot with a counsellor allegedly, but for some reason me and my H have to go to three more assessments!! Must be very very screwed up! I'm going tomorrow night.

Anyway, will be keeping my fingers crossed for you. It does sound like there's a good chance you guys can fix your relationship now you know the problems.

Let us know
Love Kathryn
x

Hi Kathryn,

Thank you for the positive outlook - everybody else has been telling me I'm wasting my time.

Perhaps they want more assessments with you because they've picked up on his depression?

The idea of fixing things is what's terrifying me. I've looked back and I've got some idea of where we went wrong, and I'm desperate to try and sort it out but I'm not sure he's so willing.

Good luck with your session tomorrow - I'll be rooting for you!

Hugs

[UpandDown]

I don't think you can ever be wasting your time when you're trying to work on your marriage. I want to be able to walk away from the biggest commitment I made in my life bar the kids, knowing I tried everything to hold it together. I think while there's still hope we have to try.

Have a good night.
x

Relate last night.

It went ok, although he did most of the talking (i think because he's had a year of counselling - he's more used to it than I am.) He still says he's not sure, but keeping an open mind.

What was interesting was we went for a coffee afterwards, and it descended into the usual him having a go at me for being a late riser, taking the big 'housework' stick out again and beating me over the head with that, and, oh, yes, his favourite, the fact that he has to repeat himself because of my deaf ear annoys him. Everything was about him, and the impact stuff had on him - I don't think he's ever once considered what it's like for me to live with a deaf ear (no great issue, it's just one of those things you deal with - he's the one blowing it into a big problem!)

And I just sat there, looking at him, and feeling - why am I even bothering with a man like that? He's admitted that he acts nice all the time (except to me) because he doesn't want to upset people, he wants to be liked. So does that then mean the man I met was a total fake? Have I just wasted the last decade on a jerk in disguise?

I WISH I could just let rip at him at the time. I seethe afterwards, and think of what I would like to have said, but I just keep quiet in front of him - why do I do that?

When I repeated the deaf ear bit to a housemate, he recommended kicking ex into orbit...

[luce]

Wiggle i do get scared too. I had anxiety attack yesterday where i had to pull off the side of the road cos tears were streaming down my face and i couldnt breathe. I sat in layby like that for ages before i rang an old friend up and said 'help, i am having some kind of attack and dont know what to do'. Bless him he talked me down and i was able to pick myself up again for the day. When i am lonely and frightened i feel like that is my whole life I find it hard to remember that i am also other things if that makes sense? I am very up and down. Some days i am really excited and ok then others i am so low i just want to die. But in the beginning i was just low so it is real progress.

I know what you mean about getting in touch with old friends but I think you might be pleasantly suprised how many people will be there for you. I have friends supporting me who i havent seen for 26yrs until this happened - amazing. Because i live right out in sticks nobody ever comes to my house though which is lonely. But i do get in my car and visit people. I have joined a socialising club too which has been a godsend to me. Meeting new friends is a very welcome distraction. A couple of them i am developing relationships with outside the club too which is nice. Went Salsa dancing last night with a chap i met there (just mates) and in Sept i am going to a 4 day festival with one of the women that i am gettiing close too.

So how has he responded to the idea of getting together to have fun once a week? It is quite difficult to have fun with a depressive person i know. Have you come up with an activity?

Hi Luce,

Have just whizzed through the bulk of your original thread. I take my hat off to you - that's one of the amazing things I'm finding with this forum, I think I've got it bad? Compared to what people like you have been through and are going through and still come out the other side amazing people, I've got it easy.

I haven't been anxious this badly for a couple of weeks, so wondering if it's the idea of seeing him tomorrow. I suspect it's more to do with trying to decide where I'm going to live and am finding that really hard - it makes the whole thing more real....

I've joined a couple of social clubs, but annoyingly they tend to have events either too far away or not the sort of thing I like doing. Iprefer activities to pub nights. I have been going to salsa on and off, and that has been good fun.

I've not spoken to him yet about 'having fun'. Not sure what his reaction would be. I was thinking bowling, walks, climbing walls, that sort of thing? I'm open to sugestions! I don't want to invite him to any of my social club events or salsa - that's 'me' time. Worried it's going to be really awkward. Not sure it's all going to be worth it. He has acted like and a*se and it's difficult to know when the depression ends and his conscious self begins...

Eeech, I'm starting to annoy myself banging on about it all the time!

[georgie]

Hi,
Yes I've been having some episodes in the last few days.. getting teary. My mind has such a bizarre way of working.. I concluded this week that I am feeling humiliated... so now the word humiliated makes me cry! I am at work talking on the phone to various businesses around Australia and I have tears running down my voice and a crackily voice, but the person on the phone doesnt know me so they think its my normal voice.. this happens at random times for no other reason then the word humiliation has popped in to my head! I am a professional crier now - i can now multi task while crying hysterically. I sent an email to this friend of mine and he sent me back a list of reasons why i should not feel humiliated, to do with good attributes etc. but i read that and thought thats whats so humliating .. i'm still not good enough no matter what i do! What a pity party in side my head. It's amazing how I can carry this all off, pass it off as hayfever etc. the people at work dont know any of the details of my life.. Anyhow, I feel I may be snapping out of it now. I used to be a car crier, when my sister and my friend died I would function normally at all times but during the hour drive to work and the hour drive home I would cry from the momment the engine started until i turned it off at my destination.
This is cheery isnt it.. I'm snapping out of it, thank your lucky stars I didnt decide to post during the worst of it!
So... yes you have so many stresses on your plate, not knowing where you are going to live is bloody stressful, I have that coming up next.. plus I have the kids anxiety about it too - they are worried about being away from their friends and schools, and I'm worried that i cant afford to buy close enough to them.. so I am managing my anxiety whist dreading their disapointment/disaproval of where we end up.
Moving house under normal circumstances is a nightmare Wiggle - so give your self a break for feeling anxious, we are only human. xxx
It's high anxiety in anticipation of seeing him and not knowing how he will be towards you, and if you are like me not knowing which emotional triggers will be hit without warning and therefore how you will be with him.
This is all tough stuff.. bang on and on and on about it.. it's really the only pressure release there is.
You will get through it.. just focus on one thing at a time, if you think about seeing him, where your going to live and all the rest at the same time its too overwhelming, break it down.
Just focus on the meeting... everything else can wait its turn.
Hope it goes well for you x

[luce]

What a wonderfully normal response to recent events Georgie. You are so very human, amazing, smart and funny. Right now i think you must be the cutest gal on earth.

Wiggle, how about a comedy club? It will be something shared but someone else will be making the entertainment so not too much pressure on you. Very wise not inviting him into your 'me' time i reckon hon. xx

Tried to post this earlier, but got timed out!

i'm still not good enough no matter what i do!

Georgie, going into work feeling the way you do is more than good enough. Dealing with all of this and worrying about children at the same time is more than good enough. Coming on this forum and posting support for others is more than good enough. YOU are way more than good enough! (please feel free to print and put on your mirror!)

I'm planning on asking him how he feels about me moving out completely (currently in a rented room, but all my stuff is in his spare room) I don't know how best to phrase it so it doesn't sound like I'm begging to come back nor like it's a definite I'm moving out. I'm not sure I'll like the answer. Well, actually what he'll say is he 'doesn't know, not sure' (is that the cowards way out?) so I'd better get used to the idea of moving, I suppose. I'm trying to convince myself nothing is irreversible.

if you think about seeing him, where your going to live and all the rest at the same time its too overwhelming, break it down.

Yes, it's mornings when my head is like that when I don't want to get up...

Luce, I think a comedy club is a good idea. There's one on the 5th May I'll propose. The drawback is they're later in the evening, which means him driving half an hour home from work to drive back to the same town again later and being in the mental state he is he's reluctant to do that (sigh), but I can try.

'Me' time - he's not cramping my style! I may be keeping the door ajar for him, but I need to make sure I'm not depriving myself of opportunities in case 'not sure' turns into 'No'.

Thank you for replying to my wails! xxx

Met up with him last Friday after work.

I told him I'd thought he'd opened up more and was less critical, and that I liked that. I got a pleased little smile from him.

I then sugested that we have some fun as well as the heavy chats, which he was up for. We carried on chatting, but keeping it light- asking after friends, family, that sort of thing.

But there were a couple of things that convince me he just wants to be friends, not work on anything else. He said he doesn't know what 'love' feels like. Great. So in 10 years he never once felt like that about me. Fab. He mentioned he wanted to do to Durdle Door with the caravan. I casually asked if he wanted some company. The look on his face was one of pure terror. He then asked what I was doing with my flat. I said I wasn't sure, because I wasn't sure what was going on with us. He sat there, silent for several minutes staring into space.

I'm telling myself this is a man who is using me to fill a gap, to stop him from feeling sad and lonely. Not because he wants to be with me.

Watched 'He's just not into you' last night on Sky. And remembered some of the things on other threads here. I've moved out. He's never said 'I'm sorry, please come back'. Maybe that should be telling me something.

B*gger. I've got to stop meeting with him, it just sends me back a couple of steps every time. But then another part of me doesn't want to ....what if...?

[Hopefull1983]

Originally Posted by Wiggle

Met up with him last Friday after work.

I told him I'd thought he'd opened up more and was less critical, and that I liked that. I got a pleased little smile from him.

I then sugested that we have some fun as well as the heavy chats, which he was up for. We carried on chatting, but keeping it light- asking after friends, family, that sort of thing.

But there were a couple of things that convince me he just wants to be friends, not work on anything else. He said he doesn't know what 'love' feels like. Great. So in 10 years he never once felt like that about me. Fab. He mentioned he wanted to do to Durdle Door with the caravan. I casually asked if he wanted some company. The look on his face was one of pure terror. He then asked what I was doing with my flat. I said I wasn't sure, because I wasn't sure what was going on with us. He sat there, silent for several minutes staring into space.

I'm telling myself this is a man who is using me to fill a gap, to stop him from feeling sad and lonely. Not because he wants to be with me.

Watched 'He's just not into you' last night on Sky. And remembered some of the things on other threads here. I've moved out. He's never said 'I'm sorry, please come back'. Maybe that should be telling me something.

B*gger. I've got to stop meeting with him, it just sends me back a couple of steps every time. But then another part of me doesn't want to ....what if...?

I actually find it really strange to comprehend how much your situation sounds like mine, it's surreal.

My husband would do the whole meeting up thing, enjoyed it, would prompt us meeting again, wanted us to do fun stuff together etc...which was all great until he realised the fact that because of this I was still holding onto the hope that this might just mean that we had half a chance and then he'd go off into his little trance, probably wondering how he tells me politely that there's not a hope in hell (sorry to be blunt but that's the way it was for me).

Your partner sounds very much like my husband in so many different ways and I higlhy recomend reading 'Reinventing your life - the breakthrough programme to end negative behaviour...and feel great again' by Jeffrey Young. My counsellor suggested I read this, not necesarily for me although I did find one section on there that applies to me (subjugation - always put others first and do anything to please them), but anyway, my counsellor suggested I read this to understand my husband. I suggest you read the sections on abandonment, dependence, emotional deprivation & entitlement lifetraps as if your partner is as much like my husband as he sounds then these would help you understand him a lot more. I'm not saying that it will help with you two getting back together but it might help in your realisation that you're better off without him and that in the long term he would not be giving you what you want or need from life. It made me realise that although I absolutely adored my husband, he didn't necesarily adore me he just had someone looking after him (the dependence lifetrap), and always letting him do as he pleases without considering their own wants and needs (the entitlement lifetrap) and more importantly he just had someone there (the abandonment lifetrap) and all of these lifetraps that he has so many characteristics of are drawn to the subjugation liftrap as this is the only one that will put his needs before their own and do either one of two things 1. let their partner controll them or 2. look after their needy partner (I was number 2).

Anyway, my point is that reading this book has helped me understand my husband a little more and made me realise that in the long run I will be better off without a man like this in my life,( it's killing me now especially when I think back to all of the happy years we shared together and thinking about the fact that he was my life and I adored him so much but maybe for him although in his own way he loved me I wasn't his life I was just what he 'needed') but in the long run I think that I will realise that things with my husband were beautiful but wouldn't have been 'right' forever. Also, I constantly wondered 'why', wondered 'what if' or 'what did I do' and I honestly couldn't think of anything, this book has helped me realise that it wasn't anything I have done, there isn't anything I can do, this is his personality, he needs to recognise that he has some issues and deal with them and only then will he be able to live a long and happy life with a wife/lover/companion that he adores but until then he will keep living this same cycle either choosing a partner who's most strong personality trait is 'subjugation' or going the opposite way and choosing someone with similar personality traits to himself which wouldn't work either.

I spoke to my counsellor about this and asked how I could prevent this same thing from happening again and she suggested that although she doesn't fear it will because I'm not the 17 year old girl that I was when I met my husband anymore, she also thinks that I'll be more aware of the different liftraps from reading this book and I just need to start putting my thoughts and feelings into the equation, not necesarily first but just considering myself, and also I need to when I do meet someone else try and pick someone with a stronger character who isn't going to depend on me (dependancy lifetrap) because then they'll just want to be with you because you look after them, but not too strong a character (the entitlement lifetrap) otherwise they will only consider their own thoughts and feelings and yours will not matter.

I've waffled on a little here but I really do think it will help you to understand things a little more if you read this book, it was such an eye opener for me. I'm not saying it'll take away the pain, if anything it might make it a little worse at first but it will help you to maybe put things into perspective and realise that these men have issues and we can't solve them only they can.

Be strong.

Natalia. xxx