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Old 29th July 2010, 01:11 AM   #1
chosen
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Boundaries in marriage

I am a very strong believer in strong hedges and boundaries in marriage as a preventative measure. My family is rife with affairs, deception, lies and divorce caused by one spouse having an affair (or more than one affair) with others at work. My husbands ex wife did this also.
However how do people cope if their boundaries are different from their spouses and they cant agree on what they need to be?If one is strict about some boundaries, yet the other doesnt feel it is so important?
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Old 29th July 2010, 11:20 AM   #2
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Re: Boundaries in marriage

Sweetz that you that was very helpful.
I am blessed with a good and godly man. He was never unfaithful to his first wife despite 23 years of unhappiness and has strict rules. However I personally have the absolute boundary of never being alone with another man in a one on one situation, say for a meal or similar. This has been reinforced by the many people in my family and my ex husbands family who have had affairs with people at work, incuding my dad and three sisters in law, and my ex husbands sister and dad. For me this is absolute, and as well as that I have absolutey no desire to have a meal or similar with another man, it is intimate and personal.

My husband has been working with a lady and 2 other men on a project 4 hours drive away which has meant staying over night a few times. This last time was this week. The 2 guys went home and my husband and this lady were staying in nearby hotels. He has known her on and off for many years, she is happily married and I know that there was nothing dodgy in it, but she suggested that they eat togather in one of the hotels, and when he rang me he told me (not asked me) that he was going to do that.
I was shocked as he has always said that work relationships should be kept at work, and yet he agreed to go with her even knowing that I was very unhappy that he was going over this boundary that I thought we shared, ie no one on one situations with the opposite sex outside work, especially for a meal, which to me is quite an intimate event.

Since then we have struggled with it. He says that because he knew her quite well and knew she was trustworthy that this situation was different, and I said that a boundary is a boundary no matter who the woman is.(By the way I have never met her). He is a trustworthy man but why even open the door to any risk when you dont have to?

I have done a lot of reading on this since and it appears that many Christian couples have that boundary of no one on one situations, such as meals or similar with anyone of the opposite sex that isnt a family mamber, so it isnt just me. To me it is is important and plain old common sense.

I do feel let down and hurt about it.I dont know now where I am for the future, being that his boundaries arent what I thought they were.
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Old 29th July 2010, 03:56 PM   #3
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Re: Boundaries in marriage

You have some good points sweetz.
A while ago we watched a dvd called 'hedges' which accompanied a book by a man called Jerry B jenkins and he speaks about the need to set clear boundaries. For example, he has a boundary of never travelling alone in a car with another women, and if this ever becomes totally unaviodable, he will contact his wife to tell her and to ask her if this is OK.

We were both impressed by the book and dvd, but my husband says that he has his own clear boundaries as to how he interacts with women ie with respect and integrity. I wanted him to think about setting clear boundaries, as I have.

I have to say that he has never ever got too close to another women, and on the one occasion in his first marriage where he sensed that a woman at work was getting too chummy with him. (she had recently divorced) he treated her in a polite but distant way and eventually she got the message and stopped and soon after left the job.

He does have great integrity, more than any man I have met but his reluctance to go the whole way and think about making clear boundaries and agreements is making me sad and insecure. He says that while most of the time he wouldnt do what he did on Monday, there are the occasional times when it is appropriate to do so.(he says).The woman, as far as I know, definetly isnt his type (she is on the heavy side and he likes slim women) and I am sure he just sees her as a work colleague that he has worked with on and off for several years.

You did say that if he wont agree, that I need to submit to him, and I agree, but how do I stop the hurt and sadness that it has caused me and the feeling of betrayal and of not feeling important enough for him to make boundaries to keep our marriage safe? He is praying and thinking about all this and asking God for direction and I know that he will listen to God will. He has appologised for hurting me and for not handling it right (ie not phoning me to ask what I thought about it, but just telling me he was going, and still going even though he knew it was upsetting me)

The thing is that he has never specificially agreed that this is his absolute boundary but has always strongly implied that his relationships with other women at work are just on work matters only, and that he would never take that outside work, so I assumed that an evening meal after work alone with a women was a no no.This is why I am unhappy and struggling.

Last edited by chosen; 29th July 2010 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 29th July 2010, 04:52 PM   #4
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Re: Boundaries in marriage

yes I do need to leave it to give him time to reflect, but its hard to act normally when I feel upset and let down.I feel as if I have been kicked in the chest and that I have a heavy weight on me. It may sound dramatic to some but because so many in my past have lied and decieved and betrayed me these things are very important to me now.
I also have said to him that I dont want him to do anything because of me but because of what is right. He is a man who takes a while to pray and think things through, but what I dont want is for this to be swept under the carpet and disappear until it happens again (if it ever does)only for it to come up again because it is unresolved.

We have been married for 4 1/2 years and this is the only time he has had a meal alone with another woman. He generally works from home but does go to meetings and places sometimes to do work. I am fine with a group going for meal , or even for him to meet a women for coffee at the place of work to discuss work issues, but an evening meal, outside of work in a social setting is something else for me entirely.Past the boundary.

I have to also say that he can be very naive when it comes to womens wiles, so I sometimes fear that he wont notice things that happen because he is quite innocent in many ways. He was an academic for many years (getting his dergree and PHD) and buried himself in the library, so didnt really spend a lot of time with women till he met his first wife at 25.Then there was only her and then me. He is also a very kind man who doesnt like to say no or let others down and can be easily persuaded.He also has VERY strong morals standards also which is a comfort, but still this has shaken me.

Thank you for your help, I appreciate it.
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Old 29th July 2010, 05:43 PM   #5
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Re: Boundaries in marriage

I joined a year ago but only read other posts. I have a real interest in marriage and relationships, so this site attracted me for that reason. It is only now that I am taking part.I have seen and experienced so many divorces and marriage breakups that I want to help and support others and to help with what I have learnt in my own life. Also I love to tell others what God has done in my life restoring so much that had been taken from me and my children. He has bought me from darkness into light. I just still have stuff that isnt healed completely. Even over this recent event I cant cry, I just feel sad and angry and hurt.

How do you mean that the devil will use my feelings?

Have a good time at work, I am cooking tea now and will be going out later to do some shopping.

Thank you for your support and understanding.

God Bless
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Old 29th July 2010, 09:41 PM   #6
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Re: Boundaries in marriage

sweetz yes I do have a wounded spirit, or a 'crushed' spirit which is how God described it to me about a year ago, because of past hurts.
yes I know that I have a fear of loss and of betrayal and of sudden shock. I had 20 years of awful times, starting with my mums sudden suicide, then years of depression leading to a break down, then 2 years after that the traumatic ending of my 23 year marriage, and the following 6 years as a single parent with three damaged and hurting older children,no support, terrible debt, having to leave our home and a lot of illness.

Only this year I have found out more about my dad (who died 12 years ago) who had a very long affair starting when I was about 15(which I did know about),and apparently he was always a womaniser, looked at porn and had a lust problem. I dont know the rest of this until this year, and the man I thought he was, he wasnt, and to find out that he not only had this affair but maybe more affairs previously,and that he lied to my brother and I to cover it up is a shock in itself, because I saw him as a truthful person.Neither he nor my mum told us about the affair but somehow we knew anyway. He married the 'other women'a year after mums death. She was 26 years younger than him, only 4 years older than me.

Most of the time I am a person who is very easy to please, content, happy, easy going etc but occasionally when something like this happens its like it hits a very painful place and all these awful strong feelings come up,and they hurt and I dont know how to deal with them.They can cause fear, anger and irrational reactions. They usually calm down after a few days, and I return to my normal happy calm self again. I have had a bit of prayer but still there are things that are not healed. I will ask my husband to pray,and I am also hopefully going on a healing weekend in October which includes 4 hours of deep prayer and ministry.

DH and I have spoken this evening, and we have agreed to watch the 'hedges' dvd again, and read the book together and pray, and after that, to talk about setting some definate boundaries for the future, that will help both if us to know where we are in all of this. You are right in that he HATES conflict, His parents unhappy marriage was FULL of conflict, and the only way he could aviod conflict in his first marriage was to do everything that his wife said and wanted because she was very controlling, so he does tend to do all he can to aviod it now, but we are both getting better at communicating about it now.

God has used the marriage to bring us both such a lot of healing. We both came into the marriage with lots of baggage,and we have come such a long way.For that I am very grateful.
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Old 30th July 2010, 02:16 AM   #7
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Re: Boundaries in marriage

I am pleased to say that he is nothing at all like my dad nor my first husband. In fact he couldnt be more different. He is the most laid back, easy going, patient man I have ever known and by far the most morally strong. They were both manipulative and moody and inconsistant in many ways. They also both lied to me if it was necessary to cover things up, and if theres one thing I hate, it is lying. I am a very very honest person and honestly and openess are to me, vital, for any relationship.

I really dont fear that he will go that route of my dads, because he is so strict about things and will even close his eyes if a woman appears on tv who isnt wearing very much(maybe in a bikini or whatever) and wont go and see films that have any sort of even mild sex scenes in them. He was like this long before we met, so it certainly wasnt my doing. He will also look away when we are out if a women with immodest clothing walks by.He has done this all of his adult life.

I suppose though, that what my dads affairs, and my brothers 2 wives infedilities,(one had 4 affairs) and my ex husbands dads and sisters affairs and my husband deep betrayals and my husbands ex's affair has shown me is that you never really know a person and what they are capable of. You trust them and think you know that person and then WHAM, they do something that you cant believe they were capable of and it floors you. Fortunately, I am by nature a trusting person despite everything,and I trust my husband more then I have trusted anyone, but that still doesnt totally get rid of all the fears that one day I will may loose what I have,and have to deal with another traumatic sudden shock. I dont spend time sitting worrying about it, but occasionally something like this happens and it makes me realise that the fear is still there.

I definately dont want to make him do anything that he doesnt want to or think is right, because I desperately do want him to be able to be the man that God had made him to be.He has thrived since his divorce and remarriage to me,(one of his sons said that he has 'come alive'), and for the first time he is actually allowed to be himself and also to be the head of the family. Besides that, one of the things that attracted me to him were his strong principles and godly ways, and I encourage that 100%.

I will encourage him to state what boundaries he is OK with long before I say what I would like them to be, and mine arent anything that many other couples seem to also have, such as no one on one time alone with the opposite sex, such as at a meal.
I encourage him to do things and go to things (such as soon there is a mens weekend away at our church that he will probably go to) and he goes to the gym/swimming 4-5 times a week, and other stuff, its just the doing things alone with women that I see as wrong and inadvisable.

We have both had prayer for cutting off the curses of the past, but theres no harm to pray again is there. His mum was (and is) very controlling and manipulative, has tried to destroy all of her sons three marriages,and is actually very toxic, but he has also had prayer to cut off the ungodly soul ties from her. Fortunatly for us she lives in Australia (he is Australian), so we can keep away now.

Thank you for your help and insight. Its good to talk to to another Christian woman who has experienced some of lifes 'challenges' shall we say,and who has clearly learnt a lot from them.
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Old 1st August 2010, 10:02 PM   #8
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Re: Boundaries in marriage

Hi I just came back from our christian camp holiday.

I think Sweetz is absolutely right here and expresses what I feel. I can understand where you are coming from Chosen but some of what you are feeling is coming from past hurts. Your husband sounds exemplary to me and you have nothing to fear if you only realised it. He doesn't need your rules only his self rules and an accountability to you.

The situation you describe comes out of work and is quite a reasonable uncontrived situation. Yes generally one avoids compromising situations but you usually know within yourself if something is a bit iffy. If he feels it is above board he needs your trust. It is not his normal situation. Maybe she will be open to christian things which is something that happened to me in the office. I had to find a private place alone with a girl so that she could give her life to the Lord while she wanted to. It may seem a bit iffy but it was anything but. There are situations where one can be in faith although they are not the norm.

Chosen do you live around the Guildford area? Connection with Pierrepont? I have a feeling I have spoken to you before on another forum. Don't answer if it is private.

Raymond
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Old 2nd August 2010, 02:41 AM   #9
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Re: Boundaries in marriage

Hi Raymond
Thank you for your advice. I can see what you are saying and I agree with much if it. The only thing that I would say now I have had a few days to mull it over is that the main reasons I was concerned/hurt, was because a)he had said in the past that he would never go out for dinner alone with another woman and b) he didnt ask me if it was ok, I had it sprung on me that he was going and I didnt even have the chance to say what I thought.
He admits that he handled it very badly, and that he did need to talk to me about it before he agreed to it.(he did know about it before that day)

I appeciate and understand that he sometimes works with women, and has meetings etc but to go for an evening meal, just because they both happened to be staying in nearby hotels, to me wasnt to do with work, and was over any sort of boundary that we had.(or I was under the impression that we had)

I agree that the extent of the hurt may well be because of past events, but I am sure that I would still have felt hurt to some extent without that because to me, boundaries of this sort are so important. I have very strict boundaries with other men. I do think that it is important that a married couple agree on certain boundaries together and that is what we are working towards.
The boundaries are for three reasons as I see them.To aviod even the appearance of evil. If I see a man and a women having an evening meal together I assume they are either married or going out. So will others I expect, and than in itself is not showing a good example.The next reason is so that no door is ever opened to temptation for either spouse if no one on one time is spent togather with a member of the opposite sex. Why open the door, even a little bit, when you dont need to?The third reason is so that each spouse knows where they are and knows that there are certain things that the other will never do.So security of the other spouse is a very important reason.

Having read quite a lot about this on the internet over time, it seems that it is quite common for Christian couples to have such boundaries, and not going out alone for a meal with a member of the opposite sex, is one of the main boundaries they seem to use. Eating together is quite an intimate thing in my opinion.The thought of eating out alone with another man makes me feel extreemly uneasy, and it us something that I would never ever do.


I know that I sometimes over react and feel so hurt, but after all this time I dont know how to get rid of them. I have had prayer in the past to an extent, but still know that from time to time things happen that touch a very painful spot and cause a lot of hurt. Yes I do live near Ellel. My son recently did the Nets training school there for three terms. I have been on a few courses there in the past, but still things arent dealt with. We havent been to anything for ages because money has been tight and the courses cost a far amount.

I do appreciate my husbands moral values and integrity very much. Thats one of reasons I married him. However everyone is vulnerable to weakness and temptation, no one is perfect, and Jesus is the only one who will never let us down in the end. That is what boundaries are all about, so that no door is opened to the temptaion to get too close to another person. If the door remains closed, then the risk is mimimised. I also believe that if God wants any person to hear about him, and for a person to spend time alone with them, telling them about God, He is quite capable of bringing along a person of the same sex to do that.

God Bless

Last edited by chosen; 2nd August 2010 at 03:15 AM.
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Old 2nd August 2010, 11:07 AM   #10
Raymond
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Re: Boundaries in marriage

Oh dear. Lost everything I wrote. Here's the rehash.

I do agree with everything you say Chosen although a little part of me reserves the right to share with the opposite sex as well as males and I have had fruit in this and some have come to Christ. It is always above board and not remotely sexual. If it was I know I would be in a dangerous position. Yes God can send a woman but if the opportunity falls to me I will use it.

One woman who visits our company always offers her cheek to me in front of others. That's just how she is. It would seem wrong to me not to respond. It is not remotely sexual. I do share into her life a lot even though she is here on business. It is open plan so we are not really alone.

Everything you say is right but the moment one brings in rules for their spouse it can imply a lack of trust. Nevertheless we do need our spouses input to stay pure and it is good that you talk about this with your husband so that he is reminded. I just think it can be taken too far maybe? There can be pure contact with the opposite sex. Certainly in the church but one has to be alert in the world of course.

Obviously all these points need to be discussed with your husband. If he said he would never eat with a woman alone it certainly needs to be reviewed. I haven't made such a promise to my wife but I don't happen to have had a meal with a woman alone since I was married either. I have never thought on the subject but do have my own set of internal rules.

I think it is good that you are inputting on this site. You have experienced unfaithfulness and can speak into situations where I can't. It sounds like you are the one I spoke to on an American site. Was it Grace Centred or something? Small world. I will know what you mean when you speak about soul ties.

Raymond
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Old 2nd August 2010, 12:12 PM   #11
chosen
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Re: Boundaries in marriage

Hi Raymond
Thanks for that. I will reply properly later, am just off out, but did you know that Ellel ministries has very strict boundaries?They will never send a women to collect a man from the station and visa versa for example. Also my church has strict boundaries. The pastor and elders will never meet with a women alone. Counselling is also always done women to women and man to man, as is any sort of prayer.
Our pastor was telling us recently that he heard of four marriages in one week where infedelity had happened and the marriages destroyed. These werent in our church but were Christian families, so boundaries in the church are just as important as out of it in my opinion. He also heard of a youth leader who he knew personally who had an afffair with one of the teenagers in his group. Yes infedility in the church is alive and well.
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Old 2nd August 2010, 05:02 PM   #12
Raymond
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Re: Boundaries in marriage

Yes Chosen I am subject to the same rules and behaviours in our church and am not against them by any means. It does make good sense. Counselling itself can be a very intimate thing and it is always wise and even imperative to have someone of the same sex as the counselee involved as well.

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Old 2nd August 2010, 05:16 PM   #13
Raymond
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Re: Boundaries in marriage

Yes Chosen I am subject to the same rules and behaviours in our church and am not against them by any means. It does make good sense. Counselling itself can be a very intimate thing and it is always wise and even imperative to have someone of the same sex as the counselee involved as well. One wouldn't expect anything else in the church. I really hope you can work it out together.

In the situation at work the girl came to my desk and asked to say the prayer of salvation. Experience has taught me to respond to that and not delay. In another situation a mother asked her child to go out of the room. I was looking at her house to possibly buy it. She was able to say the prayer alone with me and was in the service the following Sunday being baptised later. All I am saying is that sometimes it happens that you are alone with a woman because that is the way it panned out. I could give you other instances. The important thing in those circumstances is what is in your mind as in Jesus at the well.

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Old 2nd August 2010, 06:54 PM   #14
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Re: Boundaries in marriage

Raymond, I agree that if a lady asked my husband to be with her while she says a prayer of salvation then of course he would do that. That however doesnt involve spending quite some time alone togather in a social situation. If it is a work lunch meeting for example, where all the people there are talking about work, that again is different to my way of thinking. Going out for an evening meal, which is nothing to do with work, is too far I think and just isnt necessary.
I would never put my own boundaries on my husband as the last thing I want is for him to feel resentful,(although he isnt a resentful sort of person). However, in light of what has happened in both of our families(including his ex wifes unfaithfullness) I do think we both need to be aware of what can and does happen.Why risk anything even if the risk is tiny?

We have both watched the dvd called 'Hedges' which is by Jerry B Jenkins, the author, in which he speaks about the need for all of us to have hedges, although as he says that may differ for each of us. His are not dining alone with another woman, and no travelling alone with another woman unless there is another person there. He also says that he never ceases to be amazed at how many men and women at work have no boundaries,and the fact that so many men and women now work closely together brings so many dangers.
The fact that 60% of married men and 40% of married women have affairs says it all really.If the man and wife both work, just as many wives as husbands have affairs now.

He also says that if we make a decision to avoid even the apprearance of evil, the rest takes care of itself.

My husband said that he is perfectly happy to make a more definate agreement not to eat alone with another woman, and that if he needs to travel with another women, he will tell me first. I am happy with that,and from what I have learnt, it is similar to boundaries that many other couples have as well.

Yes Raymond I am on Gracecentred forums but I think I may have met you on a British forum site (cant remember what it is called now) rather than the other one?

By the way, even praying at our church is usually men with men and women with women
especially if we lay hands on that person.Good and sensible rules.

God Bless
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Old 3rd August 2010, 08:56 AM   #15
Raymond
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Re: Boundaries in marriage

We are reading from the same hymn sheet Chosen but things do happen which sound like contradictions. When I used to come home by train I would notice a woman I work with. She would say hi and it would be very rude and a bad testimony to avoid her and shut her out knowing that I would be working with her again tomorrow. So you kind of end up travelling together. It's how you use it which counts.

In a bank I worked at a girl I sat next to would come in and say I want to talk dirty (not particularly to me). Of course I would avoid that like the plague.

You are right to work it out together and if you both decide that he should never eat with a woman for the reasons you spoke about that can't be bad.

I know these days affairs are high although in twenty years I have only known about one in the church I am in which is quite a large church.

Was your first husband a christian? Was you a christian when you married him?

I think it was Gracecentred forum I met you. I was only on for a couple of months as they tended to shut down threads when they got to hot. I think on there you said you went to a healing service once a month at Pierrepont, not to pry too much.

Raymond
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