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Old 5th November 2010, 11:47 AM   #16
chosen
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Not all marriages are worth saving believe me. To stay with a person just through fear of being alone isnt a good reason. In fact it is a very bad reason actually. It is staying out of neediness. I do know people who have tried to overlook their spouses terrible behaviour, and have turned a blind eye, because of their fear of loosing what they have and it does such incredible damage. One eventually killed themselves (now that was GREAT for the children).
It does depend on whether both spouses are totally and 100% committed to staying together and that includes never ever cheating again. If he jumps straight back to the other women (and actually he hasnt stopped seeing her anyway),then he clearly isnt committed or willing and he clearly hasnt repented. He also clearly has very low morals and isnt worth having. Repentance doesnt just mean being sorry, it means turning round and not doing it again, and doing all that you can to heal the terrible damage that you have done.
People forget that the punishment for adultery was death, it is serious and terrible and the worst betrayal ever. A 6 year affair is even worse than a one night stand, because it involves 6 years of cheating lying and decieving. 6 years of living a lie.That takes enormous healing.

Last edited by chosen; 5th November 2010 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 5th November 2010, 01:55 PM   #17
Raymond
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Re: How do I take the final step?

I agree. You cannot mend a marriage with unfaithfulness going on. To carry on like this is just being a doormat. As Chosen indicates if there is no repentance or even an attempt to do better it will just lead to years and years of heartache. There is a time to call it a day because of betrayal. One can put up with a lot of faults but adultery is different. Feeling sorry for him could be a bottomless pit unless there is that repentance. The basis for working on the marriage would be his repentance and turnaround.

Last edited by Raymond; 5th November 2010 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 5th November 2010, 10:10 PM   #18
Helen_uk
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Re: How do I take the final step?

The sadness children go through when parents are still together for the wrong reasons can be just as painful in my experience.

Both parties have to want a marriage to work and be faithful and committed , without that there is no marriage. There are men ( and women ) out there who still value marriage and commitment , in my opinion sometimes it is better to say enough and draw a line. In any case you can't keep working on repairing a marriage alone and you can't stay in a marriage because of fear of being alone .
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Old 5th November 2010, 10:37 PM   #19
chosen
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Re: How do I take the final step?

[QUOTE=Helen_uk;57862]The sadness children go through when parents are still together for the wrong reasons can be just as painful in my experience.

Both parties have to want a marriage to work and be faithful and committed , without that there is no marriage. There are men ( and women ) out there who still value marriage and commitment , in my opinion sometimes it is better to say enough and draw a line. In any case you can't keep working on repairing a marriage alone and you can't stay in a marriage because of fear of being alone .[/QUOTE]

I agree Helen
Parents often think that it doesnt affect the children when there is cheating going on, or some how that they dont notice, but they do. Children do suffer whether those parents end the marriage or not.
I deeply value committment and faithfullness, and without it there can be no marriage in my opinion. It seems to be sadly lacking, with apparently 60% of married men and 40% of married women cheating at some point in their marriage.
Its so sad.As you also say it takes 2 to make it work.
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Old 6th November 2010, 03:12 AM   #20
1aokgal
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Re: How do I take the final step?

I am not the eternal optimist, but I believe in marriage.

Where love still exists there is the flame of faith. We all know in our heart when we are invested and most will do whatever it takes to mend a broken life. When couples round out 20 years together, the children have their own lives, there can be a void of loneliness. We tend to shelf the things that kept the fires burning. The struggles of living as finances, work and decisions drown the time we would spend to talk and learn each others heart.

I believe in prayer and not anger. I think a heart can sing again with the kindness that comes from admission that both people made terrible mistakes. Sometimes a person in such a marriage as this one has to take stock of how that situation, as a mate who has cheated, began to manifest and what was going on at that time. Maybe both did not do the necessary things to keep love alive. Counselling helps many families find their way back from the edge of divorce. True, it is a fact that both have to desire to change and both are willing to take responsibility for where that failure to communicate began.

No woman should stay with a man who is inherently immoral or one who has a pattern of sexual exploits with other women. Life is too short to be that much of a victim. In this situation, I don't think that is the case. I will pray for Heather and hope she will follow her heart. She is not the first women who endures pain that wrenches the soul. Many couple survive an extramarital affair and manage to work through such a situation to find a happy life together.

Last edited by 1aokgal; 6th November 2010 at 05:45 AM.
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Old 6th November 2010, 09:06 AM   #21
chosen
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Re: How do I take the final step?

The thing is that he is still having this wrong relationship. Until he stops that and committs to ther marriage it doesnt matter how much Heather loves him.
Setting boundaries and conditions for the marriage to continue and and being strong, isnt anger, it is common sense. Counselling is useless unless both are committed. Her husband has had a very long affair. The fact that he may not have had an affair with more than one woman, makes no difference, he is still having an affair after 6 years.Until he stops that and committs 100% to Heather it cant work.
yes a few do survive an affair (most dont in my experience) but only if there is total repentance and total committment on both sides.
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Old 7th November 2010, 07:13 AM   #22
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Chosen..

We agree on all the major points, but one. I don't think that marriage is over. There is still a chance for change and redemption, if he wants to try..and she allows him to try.
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Old 7th November 2010, 09:41 AM   #23
chosen
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Re: How do I take the final step?

[QUOTE=1aokgal;57878]Chosen..

We agree on all the major points, but one. I don't think that marriage is over. There is still a chance for change and redemption, if he wants to try..and she allows him to try.[/QUOTE]

I agree, but he is still involved with the other woman, and hasnt shown any signs that he is willing to stop that and committ to the marriage. IF he does that, and its a big IF, then Heather still needs to decide if she even wants to be married to a man who lies cheats and decieves for years and years. Many cant stay with a person who has done this, and can never trust them again and that isnt surprising to me at all. Such betrayal is enormous and has actually destroyed the marriage covenant. Its up to her if she can stay with a man with whom she has lived a lie for all this time, and who may do it again. He must have got so used to lying and decieving her after all this time, it will have become a habit now.It will take major changes in him to turn that around.

Most peopel would need space to make that decision, and it will take time even if he starts repenting and changing his ways. Her decision needs to be made, not out of fear of loosing what she has, or fear of being alone, but because they are both 100% committed to making it work,and it is what she herself wants.
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Old 7th November 2010, 10:31 AM   #24
Raymond
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Re: How do I take the final step?

That seems reasonable to me.

I don't know what you mean 1aokgal when you say you don't think Heather's marriage is over. That is up to her and she will make that decision. What we are saying here is the breaking of the marriage covenant is grounds for it to be over. Short of him repenting and having a complete turnaround I think also she is free to end it if she needed to, and even if he turned around it is still her choice. Personally I cannot see the future to being married to someone who is messing around with another woman but of course it is Heather's decision.
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Old 7th November 2010, 09:45 PM   #25
1aokgal
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Exactly my opinion above. I don't think the marriage is over because it seems there is unfinished business emotionally from both. Reread the posts. Naturally the lady has come to this forum to work out some of her personal issues. We have not heard from the spouse.

Maybe there is too much condemnation for the husband since we have heard ONE side of the story.
There is usually TWO sides..HIS, HERS and the REAL truth. My experience in these situations are we see only what another wants us to see. Nobody is ALL at fault..not even that husband who has cheated. In the absence of sex, affection, caring and communication people in such a marriage can do dumb things. The problem is inside the marriage but some escape OUTSIDE the marriage feeling the partner doesn't care, can't change or there is no hope to be heard.

I think it is heavy business to urge a troubled woman to go seek a divorce without knowing the real and true facts.
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Old 7th November 2010, 11:31 PM   #26
chosen
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Re: How do I take the final step?

[QUOTE=chosen;57893]We have advised her as a woman whose husband has cheated on her,lied to her and decieved her for years.We are not telling her to divorce him, but she has that option as a women who has been cheated on. Adultery is the worst betrayal that a spouse can inflict on the other, and it has been going on for years and years with no apparent guilt, remorse or repentance.Adultery frequently ends a marriage because it has destroyed the trust and intimacy.

It is Heathers decision as to what the next step is, but unless he makes that total commitment and stops the adulterous relationship, there is no marriage to save. She, like many betrayed spouses, will probably need time and space away from him to decide.

If he doesnt end the adulterous relationship, then that shows that he isnt committed or repentant, and therefore there is no marriage left, and the only option my well be to either end it, or remain seperated for good. IF he ends the wrong relationship, and re committs himself to Heather, then she still has the option to stay together, if that is what she wants to do, and if she can trust him again. Her choice.

I would never ever tell anyone that they must stay with their cheating spouse, even if that spouse repents. I say that because I couldnt stay if it were me. Some people just cant bring themsleves to be intimate with that person again, or live with them again, or trust them again, and that is why God allows divorce for adultery.

It does smash the marriage covenant, and only if both spouses are totally and absolutely committed to making to work can it do so, and even then, not always. It can happen, I have seen it, but it can also end the marriage as well, and I see that more.

In the famous words of princess Diana,a marriage with another women on the scene is a bit crowded dont you think?

It really doesnt matter what caused the affair, he carried it on for years and went back to it again for years. He chose to do that, and he chose to lie and decieve and cheat time and time again.
My husbands first marriage wasnt happy, His wife was controlling and manipulative and bossy. She frequently rejected him and never loved him or accepted him as he was, but he would never have cheated on her because he knows how wrong that is. He made that decision to be faithful to her at their marriage ceremony. It was she who eventually had an affair and divorced him after 23 years. I think she is mad, as he is the nicest, kindest most patient man I have ever known. She had no reason to cheat or to divorce him, but she chose to do that. Her choice, and now she is alone nearly 6 years later, and I have a lovely husband. She will never find a more godly man that he is, but I do know that she is hoping to meet someone else.
Some people will cheat no matter what their spouses are like. My dad also cheated, and my mum was the most loving, nice, sweet person you could meet. He didnt seem to think that faithfullness was that important apparently. Again no reason, except for the desire to sin. No everyone who cheats is 'driven' to it. They just give in to temptation and dont have boundaries.

To make excuses for adultery just isnt acceptable in my opinion. We can all make excuses for the wrong things that we do, but in the end we can choose to do them or not to do them. This man chose to do them.We also need to take full responsibilty for our actions, and it seems that this man hasnt as yet.

Last edited by chosen; 8th November 2010 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 10th November 2010, 10:41 PM   #27
Heather
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Hi
Thank you for all your comments and support... I thought you may appreciate a response from me. I told my husband that I am thinking about divorce and have been to see a solicitor and after an initial very limited response he broke down. I asked him to sit down with me and talk and he did, for the first time in a long time... He went to our caravan a few days ago with the OW and it had given him a real wake up call... I knew he had gone and was wondering if seeing her surrounded by all our family things would make him think. It had and he said he had realised that it was not her he wanted to grow old with, but me.
We have since exchanged several emails as he is away and we both find it easier to talk through our writing than face to face at the moment (strange, I know, but better than silence) I feel as though he is being honest for the first time in a long time.
My choice is still a difficult one, however, as I am not sure that I am willing to take the risk of being with him; I certainly don't want him back in a physical relationship and while I have thought a lot about 1aokgal's first posting (despite it hurting) it is certainly not as simple as a home cooked meal and a new nighty!! I must say that although that hurt I know it was not written with that intention and I have found in life that the things people say that upset me are often the ones that I need to examine more closely next time.
My friends have been really supportive and after their initial anger have just offered me love while I wrestle with all this... I could not wish for better.
Although I would describe myself as agnostic these days I was brought up in a church and appreciate your thoughts and prayers as I find my way through this labarynth - I do not want to make the wrong decision.
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Old 10th November 2010, 10:57 PM   #28
chosen
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Re: How do I take the final step?

That sounds positive Heather that at least he has seen that the other women isnt what he wants, but I think you are very wise in being cautious and taking time before doing anything major.
Its good to communictae by writing, it can be very helpful when you can both express your feelings without interruption and holding nothing back for fear of the others reaction. Sometimes it take the shock of the spouse threatening divorce to bring the other spouse to their senses,and it looks as if this has happened here.

I hope that he has, or that he will very soon, stop seeing this other woman completely. With her out of the way you will maybe able to think more clearly as to whether you can trust him again, or whether you want to stay with him. He will need to do a large part of the work to regain your trust after all this time,and hopefully, given time, you will be able to see if he is doing this. One step at a time I think.
if you do decide eventually that you want to try to make it work, some good marriage counselling should help.
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Old 11th November 2010, 05:23 AM   #29
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Dear Heather..

I think there is a feeling of confidence in your post that has not been there for awhile. You know we are all here at this site because we have problems of some kind. Sometimes we read stories and remember when we went through just a similar experience. At those times one cannot see the path ahead as we are blinded with tears and lost in that moment. Only later we see the real truth.

What I read in your posts was that the burdens of life had brought a space between you and your husband. Maybe you went into yourself. Perhaps his way to deal with very big problems was the opposite way. You said that the children had a genetic problem. That may mean extensive medical or financial or caretaking duties. Maybe this has been a terrible burden and you went into yourself with a shame over what is no ones' fault. Did you ever get family counselling about this problem?

Caretaking can be a burden that puts a marriage in crisis. Perhaps you were always taking care for children and he tried to escape dealing with such problems. That is where the Ow and escape came into it. You just lost each other and there is a lot of anger about such issues.

When you spoke of him it was with love and longing. What he said to you that you posted here, was like a man who was deeply troubled and wanted a life free of problems. I just never heard he really wanted to leave you behind. Let us say I am deeply intuitive and read between the lines. What I said to you was not to hurt you, but to shock you into some deep thought before it was too late.

You almost seemed like a person who had gone so deep inside yourself emotion was cut off. it wasn't until he really left the house that you began to feel the pain when he was gone. You have told yourself that you wanted him to finally leav. Then the feelings broke ......the tears came in gushing waves. I think you lost touch with yourself for a long time before that reality. No, he is far from innocent and I do not makes excuses for him or feel you are to blame. Yet, as people, none of us are perfect and life is hard to get through on the best terms. It sounds as if the problem you stated and the childrens problems made you feel deep down as if you are responsible? It is what it is. Some things can not be altered. If there is love between the two of you..and I say there is.....that passion that has been held in limbo..then you owe it to yourselves to find that again.

Take out the old photos....the wedding photos and childrens pictures. Do it alone, and then give him a
chance to do that as well. If there is a shadow of a chance for you all to forgive and take life one day at a time, do it. Now, heather, If he is a cheating rat and has a history of OW before this time..forget him and leave him in the dust. I did not hear that in your story! I think there is value in your relationship or you would not have been so crushed when he left. That is not what you wanted. I understand you are scared and confused.

I cried a bucket of tears in my life over more than one man.....and more than one husband. There comes a time when you separate issues into what is the most important ones. It is family, love, God, friends and health. Every other darn thing is what you have to get through to keep that part good. If you had 6 months to live, how would you change your life? Make decisions built on that idea.
If you are going to love and forgive......do it today. I say that for everyone. You may meet a few who live with such a crisis. Or we all know of someone who lives a terrible tragedy. Then can we cherish the life we have..with all the sad moments and challenges..that we are lucky?

Heather, you are lucky because you MAY be able to make a second life possible. You MAY be able to forgive the unforgiveable and have a happy life. We glue a vase back together and it is beautiful. OK, a tiny crack..but that is still a good thing. Do you understand my meaning?

Yes, Chosen, feels differently.

Take the best of what we offer you here. Make a good decision for yourself. Don't be afraid of the future..it might be the very best yet! Certainly, we are glad you trusted us with your sadness here. We give you the best advice that life experiences has given to us personally. I had some really interesting training and some life experiences. Perhaps it gives me an ability to see through cobwebs.

Last edited by 1aokgal; 11th November 2010 at 06:18 AM.
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Old 11th November 2010, 06:16 AM   #30
chosen
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Only time will tell if he gives up the other women, totally repents and recommitts himself to you. In the mean time Heather, you have the time and space to think and decide what you want to do next.

Anyone would be sad and devastated at the possible ending of a marriage, no matter what the spouse has done. Of course she speaks of him with longing, he has cheated and betrayed her.You dont stop loving a person just because you have seperated or even divorced. Personally I cant understand why it is better to have had one very long affair than several one night stands but thats just me.
He has now been shocked into thinking that he may loose you, and that has made him think, which is really good. It took your threat of a divorce to bring him to this point. Hopefully he will get his life in order now and turn it around, in the meantime Heather, only you know if you can trust him again.

I know so very many couples who have faced this, and some have ended it, and some have stayed together. I respect them all for their individual decisions, and could never pressure anyone into having to take their cheating spouse back. Its your decision, but having time away from each other to reflect is very wise. It will give him time also to reflect and realise what he stands to loose.If you have him back I am sure that you want a husband who is 100% committed and determined to make the marriage work.

The ball is in his court now really to show that he has repented, and that he is willing to committ 100% to you and the marriage, put an end the other relationship totally, and to maybe set strict boundaries to help stop it happening again. Also he will need to work hard at regaining your trust.

However no one would blame you for saying enough is enough, IF that is what you finally decide. We are all different. Some cant bring themsleves to have sex again after the spouse has had sex with another in an affair, and some can. Some can trust again eventually and others cant. Give yourself time to know and understand where you are in all of this. I am sure that at the end of 6 months you will know for sure one way or another. It will give time for the dust to settle and for your feelings and thoughts to become clear.Also it will give him time to prove to you that he is earnest or not in wanting to be with you.

I cant agree that taking out old photos will help at all. In fact in my opinion that is a really bad idea. You cant make a decision based on sentimentality, or on how long you have, or havent, been together, or on whether you have children. That is all past. The children are adults, and the marriage covenant has been shattered anyway whether you end it or not. Yes, it can be painstakingly put back together piece by peice but only if BOTH people want that and are willing to to put in the hard slog that will be needed.
Any decisions need to be made on what has happened recently, what is happening now, and on what he does or doesn't do in the future, and what you yourself want to do Heather.
Honestly I love marriage and I am totally for marriage, I am now very happily married myself second time round, but no one should ever stay in a marriage purely because they have been married for a long time, or because they are afraid to be alone, despite the actions of one spouse.

Last edited by chosen; 11th November 2010 at 12:44 PM.
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