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Old 5th January 2011, 03:58 PM   #121
chosen
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Re: How do I take the final step?

No, and even if we did disagree, thats fine as well. We all have our own opinions of what we ourselves would and wouldnt do and put up with in any given circumstances, and going by what Heather has said, she was happier when she seperated and thought it was finished. Counselling is a very long term solution to help Heather overall(if she feels that she needs to go that route), and I doubt that Heathers husband is going to hang around for a year or so while Heather has counselling and decides to either end it or not, so the decision will be made for her any way. Maybe that would be easier for all concerned?
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Old 5th January 2011, 06:17 PM   #122
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Re: How do I take the final step?

I read and re-read the posts from the beginning. My thoughts are that Heather's husband wanted to start a "fresh" new life when he found his wife had a genetic disorder. He decided that the children were too young, and did not divorce Heather. He went ahead and got his new life anyway, and now it has all come home to roost.

So he can just damn well wait for Heather, he has a family waiting in the wings either way now doesnt he? If he does wait for her, and if he does give up the other woman ON HIS OWN ACCORD, then Heather will have something besides his tears to work with.

As far as intimacy goes, he had been taking care of all that as well, for SIX years, depriving Heather of that bond, and making her think that something was wrong with her! She was not refusing, he was. Uggg! How nobel of him to not cheat on his OW while being married to Heather!

As it stands now, he is still vaccilating back and forth. If Heather loses him by default, then his concern was more for himself than for Heather or for the marriage.

Either way, Heather needs time, she has alot to process, and I think she should take all the time she wants.

I wish her well, and I know that all of you do too.

Last edited by Forever; 5th January 2011 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 5th January 2011, 06:34 PM   #123
chosen
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Re: How do I take the final step?

I agree, that thing about not wanting to 'cheat' on the OW was bizarre.I suspect that was the OW doing telling him not to have sex with his own wife.
Yes he has two families,and if he looses one he will try and have the other.Thats why he isnt finishing it with the OW in case Heather tells him to get lost. He is treating both women appallingly. I have no idea why either of them are bothering with him.
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Old 5th January 2011, 07:27 PM   #124
Forever
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Re: How do I take the final step?

I think the deeper question here, and one that Heather will have to come to terms with as well, is WHY does her husband have a sudden interest in keeping this marriage?

Why, after being discovered, didnt he just go with the OW? Financial loss? Appearances? GUILT? (Guilt is not love). Did he discover things in the OW that he does not like, or perhaps in her son who is probably a teen by now? ("You're NOT my dad, hell, your not even my mom's husband"! kind of stuff). What is the reasoning he wants to keep Heather?

Maybe he knows she is such a lovely person. And EASY because she's lost herself. And gives HIM no grief. Who knows?

Why does he keep employment that keeps him away during the whole week, and only home on weekends, as this affords him the ability to remain emotionally and physically disconnected? Is he willing to remedy this?

When Heather and her husband made the list for keeping the marriage vs. divorce, what were the things that HE listed?

As for why Heather would bother with him....well, 22 years and the fact that HER love for HIM was still intact...(she did not know what he was doing all this time, she TRUSTED him). That would give her pause, and the fact that she is a compassionate person and he pleaded with her, that also gives her pause...for now.

Any thoughts Heather?

Last edited by Forever; 5th January 2011 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 5th January 2011, 09:36 PM   #125
chosen
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Re: How do I take the final step?

However she has never said that she wants him back. She has only asked how she can end it. We have told her how to end it(tell him, write to him, etc), and now the decision is hers. She will need to be strong and stick to her guns, despite his manipulation, tears, broken promises. or this will go on forever. He knows that he only has to get upset and she will give in, just like a child who cries for sweets knows if their parents will give in, BUT the parents need to be stong and consistant, as will Heather.
I think she needs the support of a close friend or family member who will support her in her decision, and who be there for her, even when she tells him. Someone who she can lean on and be strong for her.
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Old 5th January 2011, 10:03 PM   #126
Forever
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Yes, she KNOWS how to end it. The problem here is that when she is sitting at the solicitors and filing the paperwork, she knows she will be flooded with doubts, grief, and questions regarding whether or not she should have done otherwise if she does not settle those things long beforehand.

With you, you KNEW that you had to end your marriage and did so when you were strong enough. With her, she has a husband who, while asking for another chance, is still not living up to his promise. Quite confusing, and she, being the type of person she is, has to come to terms with that.

Also, she easily finds something about her own self that causes her to question if she was also somehow responsible for the marital failure....I do not think she was at all, she was a trusting, loving wife that kept the home fires burning and took care of the children, but she needs to explore that. Maybe "lost" is defined by not feeling like a real wife for too long because of the way their life was set up. Maybe she is unsure about how a wife OUGHT to feel anymore, or how to feel anything significant for him at all. History is nice...but it cannot take the place of fidelity and love.

That is why she is a good candidate for taking her time, it will also, in time, become evident if her husband will become true to his word, or just chooses his default family because of his own impatience with her needs.


Chosen, we are on an 8 hr. different time zone. I am actually 8 hrs. behind you. It is 2:00 in the afternoon right now for me, and 10:00 in the evening for you.

Last edited by Forever; 5th January 2011 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 5th January 2011, 10:55 PM   #127
Heather
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Hi
I don't know what your day job is Forever, but you seem very insightful here. You are right in that I am lost... some days I know that this was not my fault, in that even if someone is unhappy there are better ways to deal with it than betrayal, and my husband has deceived me for a long time. Other days I sit and think... but I must have made him really unhappy for him to do this, he is not a bad person, those of our friends who know we are separated were astounded and most of them do not know the whole story anyway.
My husband has said recently that he sometimes feels his job has taken everything from him - it has given him money and one of the reasons he is still working away is that he is financially tied into the company at the moment, but it has taken him away from his family. The children both said these holidays that they don't feel their dad really knows them as people - they don't resent this as such - it is just the way things are, a failure on my part too.
You are right also in that me love for him was intact. I felt - and still do - as though someone had died, but instead of a funeral, closure and moving on, they are still there.
I don't know how I feel anymore - I can't say I love him because I'm not sure about that anymore. But I can't say I don't love him because that seems cruel. I took my wedding ring off as the covenant is broken and I daren't put it back on, because I don't know if I really want to commit myself to the risk of more pain and betrayal. So you can see my confusion... hence the need for counselling.
We gave ourselves 6 months of separation... although I don't think we feel totally separated as circumstances keep bringing us together - we have to take our daughter back to uni next weekend. So we have 'til April to think about things...
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Old 5th January 2011, 11:24 PM   #128
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Hi Heather,
The more you share here, the more I understand a little more about what has happened.
1) You are a great wife, a loving mother, and stronger than some may think, and no, you have not made him unhappy, his choices have.
2) You are discerning enough to know that you must not rush into anything until you are at peace with your decisions, and smart enough to explore them.
3) Your husbands employment has taken a heavy toll on your ability to connect with each other on MANY levels, both on yourself and on your children.
4) Your husband compensated for HIS disconnected feelings by creating another family in which he could feel more whole.
5) You do not know if you are able to go back to square one and reclaim the relationship after how he chose to behave so badly.
6) Your husband still clings to the other woman because he cannot assess the magnitude of the damages and is uncertain about who YOU are after what he has done.
7) I think you need more time than April.
8) You need to tell your husband that unless he takes the same chances that he is asking you to take (get rid of the OW) that there is no forward. The RISK should be shared equally. This isnt a business adventure.
9) You BOTH should get counsel TOGETHER if either are serious about salvaging the marriage. You should get it for yourself regardless.
10) He needs to arrange his employment so he can be HOME every night, with you, if this is going to have a chance to work.

Something I would like to ask, how long has your husband been traveling away during the marriage? Was he doing this BEFORE he found out about your genetic disorder?

Last edited by Forever; 5th January 2011 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 5th January 2011, 11:33 PM   #129
Heather
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Thanks for your kind words, Forever. Have just had an email from my husband explaining the receipt that I was suspicious of. He had been chosen to buy it as a leaving gift for a work colleague. He also said he has had no contact with the OW this week. He is going away to think things through too, so maybe there is progress there. I can but hope.
As for counseling - I am trying to arrange it currently, for myself, whatever happens in the future I will need help to sort myself out I think.
H
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Old 5th January 2011, 11:42 PM   #130
Forever
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Re: How do I take the final step?

A delicate question Heather, why does he feel he always needs to "go away" to think, or for "time alone"? What does that do to your ability to trust him? Is that not part of the problem (he is always away)?

Speaking for myself, it would cause me to be suspicious given all that has transpired. I know you two have lived for years with him coming and going, but at some point, this may need to change if trust is ever to be rebuilt. At some point, when he has things to mull over, he should be doing that together with YOU and not so much alone. After all, is that not what married people do? What do you think?

I edited the last post I had made before this one, please re-read.

Last edited by Forever; 6th January 2011 at 01:24 AM.
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Old 5th January 2011, 11:52 PM   #131
Forever
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Heather,
You said "I can but hope". That is good on one level, but when you see him when you take your daughter to univ, perhaps you should tell him that you will need to have something tangible to work with. Go over the list and see if there are things there which will HAVE to change, and TELL him (yes, learn to express yourself) what they are, and ask him how he feels about it. Maybe do some soul searching before then and add things that are important to you... proceed as though there were enough hope left inside of you to ask it of him.

Consider numbers 8,9, and 10. Do they fit into your needs?

Last edited by Forever; 6th January 2011 at 01:50 AM.
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Old 6th January 2011, 11:13 AM   #132
chosen
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Re: How do I take the final step?

if this is to work you will need counselling together as well as apart.Maybe that needs to be one of the conditions for the marriage to carry on?
The fact that he has gone away to think, may mean that he hasnt finally made his mind up about the oW, otherwise what is there to think about? So you will need to wait to see what decision he makes, as well as what decision you make.
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Old 6th January 2011, 11:10 PM   #133
Heather
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Hi
My husband has worked away since the children were about 6 and 8 respectively and before that he worked very long hours. When we first found out about the genetic problem and my mum died my husband was going to ask his boss if he could work nearer home... instead he was promoted and he was away even more, renting a flat in the south so he could be near London. He was home 3 days a week roughly and that is when the cracks in our marriage appeared. I had also started working full time as the children were both at school - something he has told me he wishes I hadn't done... he didn't seem to know why he minded so much, and I was always home when he was - just another issue that I never knew about.
I think when he says he is going away he means away from everything... family, work, our business... just to think - I had thought of doing the same myself, but I fear I would just end up back where I am now. We both agree that we need time together to talk, without the children around, so we will have a weekend together on neutral ground once my daughter is at uni again. He is at home now - sat working.
As for trusting that he will spend time alone... I don't know if I will ever trust him again. In my head I can say I don't care - it is his conscience that he will have to live with if he isn't alone... but actually I do care. I care that I can't trust him, I daren't trust him and that still hurts me... that is what I have to live with - and will have to come to terms with if we stay together.
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Old 7th January 2011, 12:13 AM   #134
Forever
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Heather,
Thankyou for your reply. Looking from my point of view, the marriage became more of a "role" than a relationship due to him spending WAY too much time away year after year. This CAN be reversed. The trust which is gone now, can actually be recovered as the two of you discover each other as real PEOPLE again, you know, like when the two of you fell in love and married in the first place. Only now you have changed through the years, and have to start over.

You DO NOT HAVE to trust him now, and should reserve the right NOT to until you actually can. But IF you are able to set that part of you aside for awhile, you can learn to do that as the relationship grows...but you both need to talk to each other, not text, email or whatever means of non voice type of communication that has been happening over the years. How many days go by before you actually talk when he is away?

I would say, I dare say that the marriage all but died by default, BEFORE the OW, only no funeral. The OW was a real live way for him to have a "hands on" way of feeling whole and complete in the absence of you and the children for too long at a time. If you dare, you must RISK becoming to him, what the OW was, no offence intended. REAL AND ALIVE. It seems like the two of you relate more like cordial strangers than lovers and friends. Show him that you are not dead.

He accepted the promotion at a time that was critical, when you needed him there with you, and you both lost a chance to connect. Some men run and create something else for themselves if they feel estranged and do not know how to balance their feelings (void) with their reality. NOT AN EXCUSE, just perhaps a reason that this other life appealed to him in the absence of emotional connection with you.

He's home at the moment. Sitting there WORKING. That is all he knows to do. He does not even know you well enough to know what he SHOULD be doing does he? Does not know what he should be doing especially after what he has been doing the last six years, because he knows you cannot trust him now. He is just there, working, feeling lost too, so he works.

What do you WISH he would do? (probably go away, drop dead or something, but that is not the right answer) :^) If you would, please try to answer THIS question?

Also, how can he rectify the employment situation so that the two of you can get counseling together, and have enough time to learn who you are and what you both need?

I know you are afraid, but Heather, all is lost if you dont become real to him. He is your husband in name, but find a way to be his friend. Do stuff together, fun stuff, silly stuff, things that make you feel awkward or vulnerable, have a tizzy fit, argue, get REAL, it wont kill you. Why should you? Because if you dont, you will never know if you could have. You will have at least tried to give it your best shot in spite of what has happened. Then you will have peace.

Last edited by Forever; 7th January 2011 at 02:38 AM.
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Old 7th January 2011, 03:59 AM   #135
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Re: How do I take the final step?

Dear Heather...

I have a marriage with miles between since 1992. It was the fact he could be here in the city and earn low wages or be unemployed in his trade, or work elsewhere and earn a lot in his profession. Before we married he made a promise he would never take a job that kept him away long periods of time. That was my life before.
My former husband was military, always gone. There were constant problems. I was too young to manage living alone for 9/10 months at a time with two children. It sapped my youth.
So I felt deceived when ten years married to this man he says," I am going into the merchant marines." They do nothing but stay gone. I said if you do..I file for separation...and did that.

When he wasn't gone he was with me. He always sent support as well. The path of least resistance was to make the marriage work. One develops coping skills when you live single, but married. You don't have married friends. That would be awkward. They don't understand if you are alone on Christmas. You can't ask a friend with a husband at home to go to a late movie. So time alone is routine. Kids eventually go on their own path. Life pretty much passes you by because so much is missed and lost. Things you don't do or go because you are alone.

It is hard to dine out in the evening at your corner table (by the kitchen where the clatter is loud.) It is a fact you will get the worst service and table, eating alone. They always sit you by the screaming kids. Already you are a bit down and then feel irritated with sloppy service, poor food and noise or overheard conversations you don't share.

When this man spends months gone it is two strangers who meet. Both have their own way of doing things. One feels uncomfortable with a level of intimacy and conversation is surface. There are also moments of anger and blame for the dereliction of birthdays, cards, flowers or events that get bypassed by distance. I had surgery three times while my husband was gone those years.
There are all those emergencies that one copes with alone. The things that break down; the flood of water from a leak upstairs, a car that has major problems. Even a functional woman gets frustrated to always be the one who has to make decisions. It is a way of life that is permanent. Why consult on a problem when you are the one who needs to solve it?

Those antagonistic moments become more common as one thinks of the events in life missed. Moments couples enjoy we do not. Most men with such a profession can't derail in midlife and go backwards. So the woman adjusts to lowered expectations. It is what it is. when the marriage is so on separate paths that a woman has to have her work and her identity or she is a shadow, unseen and unheard. So little will change so long as the man works this type of job. He can't revamp a life profession. So the woman changes. That is where she pulls inward and learns not to need him.

With your case he met someone who intersected his path. My husband just lives his career and has the camaraderie of men at sea. I don't think either man would make another choice in his work life, do you?
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