belated "hello"

[Ageing Grace]

I seem to have suddenly turfed up here, and posted too much in what is, evidently, a close community. I haven't posted a problem of my own, as such, so I thought perhaps I owe some of you an explanation.

I'm mid-50s, twice-married, twice divorced; lived a roller-coaster life which is currently in one of its deeper troughs. I have no children (though, thankfully, an army of nieces & nephews) having learned, after several hairy miscarriages, that I couldn't carry full-term. My condition, PCOS, is treatable now but was only discovered & defined around the time of my fourth & most horrific failure. Obstetric science has certainly moved on fast: a bit too late for me but, hey, I was a test case so I've helped others

About ten years ago, I married the second "Mr Grace" at the same time as starting a new job. I used to be one of those high-powered, high-earning, at-all-the-best-parties, gym-every-day women who always find the positives and seem, outwardly, to land in rose petals every time.

I was driven by fear. Fear of not being good enough; fear of being "found out"; fear of punishment; you name it ... but you would never have guessed, for one of my true characteristics is courage and I used it in spades. All the time.

I my mid 40s, as often happens (I now know), everything closed in on me. My boss bullied me; I suffered and could not walk away. My marriage was for love, but never a meeting of minds. It didn't last long - he left me - but, during that short time, both our fathers died.

His father (my f-in-law) was more of a 'soulmate' to me than his son: overly sociable and, as I later found out, not the greatest of spouses, he was affable as my Dad never was. Mine was a violent, emotionally abusive, control addict. I wasn't brought up, I was trained ... I took care of the others (from the age of 12 months?!) whilst my parents went away for sexy nights off. He died unexpectedly, in his late 60s.

My brothers & sisters elected me to deliver the farewell speech on our behalves. A summary of all our memories about Dad, it was our collective sentiment but expressed in my voice: it nonplussed a lot of people, but was clearly spoken from all our hearts. Its overriding theme was the fear my Dad invoked, in all of us - and especially in me, his eldest.

With 2 family deaths, my divorce, and a boss who uncannily echoed my father's tactics: I was riding for a fall and, boy, did I fall! Within 3 weeks I got my divorce papers, had an ovary removed and was diagnosed with "profound chronic depression, severely impaired affect, cognitive defects .... symptoms of PTSD .... apparent physical disaffect .... " In shorter words, I had a breakdown.

There was another one to come. The best thing about this convergence of events was that it started me in therapy. The best thing about my starting therapy was that my family began to unravel the web of lies - happy, stable family, blah blah blah - which had required me to "be" a lie for the first 40+ years of my life

Now, after the 2nd breakdown (not a medical term, btw: [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_breakdown[/URL]; [URL]http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C166132.html[/URL]), I've done 6+ years of therapy; lost everything financially - even my flat & possessions - and am back at Square1, though rather late in life!

I understand why I dumped nice men for self-obsessed, bully men. I appreciate myself more, though it's still a bit of a challenge. I'm a real friend to my remaining friends; my friend list is much shorter than before, but the people on it care about my well-being.

I'm here because I'm still tying up loose ends in my own process: I obeyed a violent man for 12 years (though we were the "best of friends" ), then treated a perfectly average guy, the 2nd Mr Grace,[I] as if[/I] he were a nutter like my father or my 1st husband. I'm sorry I did that - I'm still only realising the extent of the pressure I put on our tiny marriage. What with me, and the deaths, and the bullying and the breakdown: who can blame him for quitting?

Yet, when he left, that still calm voice in the back of my head said "Enough! It's the final rejection! Hurrah!". The voice was right. His special quality was his skill for keeping me hanging on, whilst simultaneously denying we were together. Nice.

So I cracked up, twice, and lost everything. I learned a lot, as you do at such times. Presently I feel the desire to feed back - if you'll pardon the expression - some of what I have learned, during 50+ years of abusive family relationships & their repercussions, plus the quality (and, sadly, expensive) insights I gained thanks to all those therapists.

As I write, I'm "in love": for the first time equally - with someone who is unhappily married. I'm pretty sure he will sort things out with his wife, and I know that will that will hurt me. I understand many of you will hate me for it.

I realise this is probably a transitional thing for both of us. Other adults who were reared to consider themselves 'difficult' (as he & I both were), and who have found themselves questioning that, will comprehend both the worth and the danger in such a relationship.

I'm not asking your forgiveness: I know this thing will end in my tears!
But I have already learned something from it: the feeling of being loved & wanted, for myself. More importantly, that I've [I]allowed[/I], at last, someone to love me [I]for who I am[/I]. No more, no less.

I'm here - not because of my little adventure - but because I'm finally trying to put together everything I've learned and to share whatever gifts I may have to offer. I'm sorry if I've alienated some of you by my honesty.

What I have learned, through the amazing processes of therapy and all it entails (including meditation/and/or/prayer, plus darn hard work), is that all people want the same things really . And that you can improve your chances of getting them by un-complicating your personal "scripts" ... easier said than done, as only those who need to will understand!

I may regret this, but I'm posting it anyway
A. Grace
xx

[Raymond]

Interesting story Grace. Sounds like you got comfortable with being bullied without realising it. Your own enemy within?

I'm not sure if I am happy with you being in love with someone elses husband though.

Raymond

[Ageing Grace]

You're 100% right about the enemy within, Raymond. Thank you.

I'm not happy about the other thing, either, though it's been an important learning experience. He's spending some quality time with his wife (at my insistence), so it may already be over.

AG

[Raymond]

I'm very impressed with you.

Do you have victory over this enemy within or does it still rear it's ugly head at times?

This inner punishment thing can be quite strong in some but not always apparent to the person as it is deep in the subconscious. It can come out in various ways and shock the person themselves. For some it is the feeling of being no good and acting like a sort of doormat. It always seem to come from childhood and one parent or the other.

I was a bit like that until my conversion.

Raymond

[Ageing Grace]

I remember your mentioning your background in one of your other posts, Raymond. It's wonderful that your faith has helped you put your 'demons' to rest

It's too early for me to claim victory. As you say, it was so deeply embedded in my psyche that I didn't even know it was there until it had nearly destroyed me. To recognise it, be aware of its tricks - and to fight back - is the most I can hope for just now; I'm quite proud to have come this far!

I don't feel I'm being 'good' about the other party's marriage ... it's self-protection! Were I to settle for the role of mistress, I'd be choosing a half-withheld love and to live amongst lies. At least I know I deserve better than that ....

Thank you so much for your thoughtful replies, Raymond

Added:

I've just read through the past 3 months of the Chapel forum, largely seeking a better understanding of your community's animus (spirit). It strikes me that you people, here, embody what religion does best, at its best: it's like a concentrated essence of love & wisdom

If only religion were not so open to exploitation, then we as people would be better, more peaceful, more fulfilled, and happier for it .... but I guess that's what the bible says, along with all the other major religious texts

I'm agnostic - not atheist - and I have to say: if all pastors, of all faiths, were as wise & caring as you lot here, human suffering would be halved & there'd be no need for "religious" battles (an oxymoron if ever there were one!).

Thank you for being here, for welcoming me ... and for being what you are

A Grace

[Raymond]

Funny enough it's not about religion it's about a person a person who said no man can come to the father except by me.

I had enough of religion as a child through convents nuns etc. I came out hating religion. It was not until I came into relationship with Christ that I realised that that was what is was all about. In a way religion is the enemy of God in the sense that it is mistaken for Christianity. I don't class myself as any religion. The important thing is relating to Christ. Jesus said if you have me you have the father also. So it is very simple.

Sorry to preach but you did set a platform and besides people need to hear this.

Don't be a mistress Grace. You are worth more than that.

By the way I am not part of any community. I came on here just like you did.

Raymond

[Ageing Grace]

[quote=Raymond;40173]I had enough of religion as a child through convents nuns etc. I came out hating religion. It was not until I came into relationship with Christ that I realised that that was what is was all about. In a way religion is the enemy of God in the sense that it is mistaken for Christianity.[/quote]
That's interesting, Raymond - thank you!

In very general terms, I do have 'religion' but find it better not to say much about it, exactly because every person you speak to will make assumptions that may be wrong, but won't be open to discussion. Yet, time and again, you find that in times of distress - people pray. It goes by other names: meditation; introspection; chanting; focussing ... It's an instinct. Whether people achieve it through some formalised method or by walking, dancing, doing yoga or whatever - we do have access to a "higher power" and we automatically seek it when we are most in need.

I hope I haven't offended your faith by generalising?

[quote=Raymond;40173]Sorry to preach but you did set a platform and besides people need to hear this.[/quote]

Yes, we always need to hear it
This forum is a community - I didn't mean to imply anything more physical. You seem to have become quite a mainstay: even though you say it's unrelated to your work, it must be a kind of vocation with you ...

[quote=Raymond;40173]Don't be a mistress Grace. You are worth more than that.[/quote]
I'm extremely wary of posting about my current situation here, but thought I might share this: his texts & phone calls have gradually become more frequent again. I asked him, this afternoon, to stop contact for at least 10 more days & give all his attention to his wife.

I think he is failing to seperate two issues: his marriage, and me. I'm not an alternative; he needs to figure out where he stands on the home front. That's nothing to do with me, but he won't help anybody by faffing around with half a marriage & half a girlfriend

I can't devalue what he's given me. I was kind of 'dead inside' after what went before: this man let me feel loveable. But I don't want to be half a girlfriend, and that's pretty much the definition of a mistress!

So far, no more messages ... I already miss hearing from him BUT I also feel more free - not such a paradox, really This evening, I danced around the living room for a couple of hours, all by myself, to music on the telly I used to do it almost every day - but it's been, literally, years - I can't even pinpoint when I stopped just dancing for fun.

It seems to me that my little adventure has given me back some of my life ... and that taking responsibility has given me more energy!

I do appreciate your thoughtful posts.
AG

[clockwork orange]

AG

Thanks for being so honest - if more of us were as honest with ourselves and others the world would be a better place.

Raymond - you always make so much sense, you have a true gift from God there. And I agree its about the relationship with God through Jesus, not about religion. I didn't understand that til about a year ago.

Clockwork

[Raymond]

Thats fantastic Clockwork. I hope you are growing in what you have. To says it is easily the best gift I have ever had is an understatement.

Glad you are feeling freer Grace. I don't think it is right for you.

Raymond

Dear A. Grace....

You know thre truth in yourself and that's why you posted here. You said you got years worth of therapy yet you still make decisions to hurt Grace.... just as you always have.
You stated clearly in a few words what this affair with the married man is all about, you said,"my little adventure." Was that a Freudian slip?

Perhaps you think now you are doing the best thing to "be in control and you both supply both your needs" with not a lot of time and effort involved for either. Likely, you don't wake up together so you see the nicey side of him when he is with you. You may not see the side when he looks not to good and hasn't got his coffee yet. That stuff comes with familiarity and time. He is not around that much. Does he take out the trash?

You are not asking for much for yourself. (Poor Grace?) Whatever little bit of time he can give you ...so you can feel good about yourself. It is not hard to compete with the wife. This is not like it is in the single world where a guy might date several women and competition for available men means a gal in 50's has to be streamlined and on the toes all the time. A married man with a job can't invest much time so that must mean he has a job he can creep away in the daytime ....as he should be home by 6PM or there is trouble at home. Whatever is going on there..he would not tell YOU the truth.

Men can be real S..... I remember being in a service club for a dinner years ago with friends and I got there early and sat at the bar almost an hour. There was this pushy good looking guy trying to sweep me off my feet. I was the catch of the eve, I think, and he asked me if I would like to "go somewhere" with him. Like somewhere private... as in his place, my place. I said.."What is with you..what is your big rush?"

Imagine my shock when he told him his wife was due home the next day. I said "from where?" Get this...she just had a baby and was due out of the hospital next day home." I swear, I almost came unglued.... I called that guy so many names and got up and moved far away. That was so disgusting. Imagine how YOU would feel married to that man and found that out? How would you feel if that guy,.... your playmate ....if you were his wife? Do you even consider he may be a lying, cheating dog who has done this many times before and you are just a number? Somehow I got the impression you think you are special to him?

You see, I personally always had a feeling of sisterhood for the woman who was with that man. I would not touch a married man for the lottery win. I respect the turf of another and women SHOULD stick together on that one. That guy would have to have divorce papers ready to inspect before anyone believes it either. Hate to say it...they LIE.

I would say you are more of a home wrecking hussy but "other women" are not the problem in these games..... they are a SIGN of the problem. That guy is morally bankrupt. He has probably done this a number of times and is TOO slick. Once a cheater..always a cheater. They make terrible bets as a husband in future as well. They have ISSUES. I assure you that YOU are not far above that mark. You must have missed the last month of therapy because that is a primary lesson in life. Don't take leftovers.

If you envision he is your future sweetie when he leaves his wife OR she wisely leaves him ..then YOU will get this bag of worms for your very own.Then you will have BIG mistake #3.

I suspect you do not have a full bag packed to meet the competition for the men who are available and not players. You fear real love and affection and EXPECT a rat to use you. You don't get out there to expose yourself and you settle for anothers leavings. That wife may already know what she has got, is not much. Maybe she will give you blessings for taking it off her hands? No..I think he will stay with her......and play...so he does not have to pay.

Single men wine you and dine you and put forth effort in hopes of a reward. Married men don't have the cash (cause SHE has got it) so either you pay OR it is at YOUR house and you supply the goods and the GOODS for him. SOOOO easy is that picture. All the comforts of home? Sorry, you are NOT home. He will get up and return home. You are fooling yourself, Grace, the street you walk is paved with pain and humiliation.

I bet you don't go OUT? He does not want to be seen and has not got the time. He will be home for Xmas.....and you will be home too..alone, and feeling scuzzy.

At 50 years OLD, times a' wasting and you got no time to put dead end effort into a dead end street. Put your effort forth to a good man..widower or divorced who will treat you with respect and love. He will give you the things YOU should think you deserve.

Sorry, but you ARE daddy's BAD little girl who are living DOWN to what he expected of you. You have not turned a corner to grow up. You failed therapy 101 and the first rule in therapy is to LOVE YOURSELF and give yourself more than what the negative people in your life gave you. Please, Grace, don't stand in line for crumbs when you can walk tall, free and have pride in who you are. God wants more for you and you should want more too.

Give that DUD back to his keeper and get one of your own.

[Ageing Grace]

Crumbs.

Thanks for your nice note, Clockwork, and 1aokgal for the time you put into your very angry reply!

Yes, I know you're right about how much I can expect from this. Obviously my - erm, playmate - is a cheat and a liar. I'm not that thick.
Give me a break, I'm trying out new ground in MY personal life ... not his, and not his wife's.

Both my exes were serially unfaithful. The only time I felt angry at the other woman, was in one case where she'd gone out of her way to make friends with me In that case [i]she[/i] betrayed me, too.

When I was very much younger, I used to feel as you do about respect for another woman's pain. But life isn't like that: the only people with responsibility towards a marriage are the people in that marriage. Bear in mind I reached this viewpoint by being the wife, not a 'hussy'.

As to your implication that I'm getting on in years (and had better find a husband?), I'm in a poor position for socialising right now. I live in the back end of nowhere and I'm broke. Luckily I don't believe in sell-by dates. After Dad died, my Mum started dating again (at 70) and is now on her second long-term relationship since then: both with far kinder, nicer men than Dad.

It's been interesting to watch her learning how to deal with a nice partner We each have our own journey to make.

AG

Dear Aging Grace...

You said my letter was angry? Not angry ..but truthful and direct. Why would your choice anger me? It is YOUR life, not mine. You sound like a smart woman..street wise by experience and you OUGHT to be looking for a better go next time.....married or not married. I hate to see someone throw themselves away because they lack faith.

Take no low ball bids of being a good time.... but expect, and look for more. I hate to say this..you might not believe me..but I was SO THERE back when living with little money and working and going to school and no spring chicken and not the first go around either. I kept that code of ethics because it was all I had to be proud about. I had terrible.....emphasis here... TERRIBLE childhood ..won't elaborate.

Do you think I had a good marriage with a husband who fractured my leg in three places and put me in a wheelchair for almost a year with severe back injury? He tried to kill me because I was leaving him after three horrible years. A marriage I went into urged by my mother who thought I could not make it to finish the university and late 30's then. I needed to get a job better than the one I had. I saw no future with a very angry man who did no treat my children right and began to drink and bully me. I needed to get out where I could work my way to find a better life for us. When I left him it took a few years and he cleaned up his act with the next wife, I heard. My back problems were through the next 20 years at times excruciating and disabling. I swam and did special exercises to stay fit.

When I worked the jobs and took classes for years there was barely time to blow dry my hair..out the window on the way to the next job. I worked 2 shift jobs and took my classses. I know what living on a mean, cheap street is all about. the place was a dump but I could pay the overhead at least. I also know how it feels to be sad because some guy on a date put rough paws on a new dress and got it torn. My first new dress in awhile. I tell you a bit of my story that you believe there is more for you and not waste time that can't be replaced in empty soul deadening relationship. It harms you more than you know. Don't sell out, Grace.

Believe in something better for yourself and do what you must to get a better life. YES, dear, "time is a wastin" and you get no younger. Best you find a life companion so two can meet the life problems and not one who gets overwhelmed and ends up pushing one of those grocery carts in old age. Choice is about money in the bank and checks that won't bounce.

That was my fear in front of my face......that I might end up a bag lady one day in old age. I worked my way through classes at the university and took handouts, loans and grants anytime it got me closer to goal. I did meet a nice man.....and had little time for him and told him so. It intrigued him I would not be blown away by his good looks, success and much younger. He had never been married. Mr. Smart, who seems to be able to fix or do anything. I refused to live with him. We married a month later. I continued to work and put financial nests in place through the years. A very long, long time marriage. He has some shortcomings but is a good man who takes secure care for me. It is a love that has survived some hurdles.

Dear Lady, get it together. No one will respect YOU until you do it first. Set goals and go get them. Get free money, school or training handout programs....anything, to help you go up the ladder. I did that and went all the way to a top notch earning capacity. I got where some younger ones could not cut it by studying through the night until 5AM if I had to do it to pass an exam. Determination and focus. Get some counselling and get busy making your life work.
Good luck....PS...offload the extra baggage.

[Ageing Grace]

1aokgal, My computer's going to shut down in 3 minutes & I'm going to let it because I'm still working (it's 5am) - you're not the only one who has to do what it takes

Your story's amazing. You must be quite formidable! What I wanted to say - it's been bothering me, on and off, all day - is that you made a heck of a lot of assumptions. No, "little adventure" wasn't a Freudian slip. That's exactly what it is, and I embarked on it with eyes wide open because I thought - in this particular instance - it might do me some good. For me, in the ways I outlined, I think it has.

I chose to write about it here after much consideration. This is a marriage forum after all! I felt, if nothing else, it would help explain where I'm coming from (I seem to have failed dismally in that respect!) plus: you never know, a new perspective might throw fresh light on somebody's problems, some time, when they read it.

My post was not an apologia, nor a plea for sympathy.

I take issue with your apparent conviction that marriage is the only goal. It is not. There's a multitude of reasons for becoming intimate with another person, not least of which is that intimacy is a fundamental human need ... or a mammal need, to be exact.

Of course I hope, like everyone else, that I will one day meet up with a suitably intimate, appropriately caring person and spend the rest of my life with him. That isn't a realistic thing to even fantasise about with the man I wrote about here; however I am interested in my own reactions because the whole experience, short as it's been, has been a new one for me. I mean the WHOLE experience, not only the adultery part.

I will never learn to do things differently from the way I always did - unless I try new ways.

You of all people should acknowledge that, I would have thought?
I enjoy all your posts here (including these). You certainly come over as lively and dynamic. You still sound pretty angry though ... want to talk about it??

Cheers, and thanks again for your time
AG

Dear A. Grace...

No one thinks your story needs an apology or was written here for sympathy. You spoke true of your situation and your feelings. What came through to me was your sense of isolation and sadness of disappointment when we accept what is there instead of what we hoped to find. When this man leaves for home you are left to reflect and wonder what happens next. I don't think from your letter you have marital illusions about this fellow or that you want him on the rebound.

Passing time perhaps.... but I also think there is a degree of payback for men in general. The sexual situation can give women some power where life has thwarted happiness. Heck, that is not all bad.

Though I believe in prescribed roles for men and women, there is every degree of grey when a situation is the best it can be and we make do. We don't always end up with our playmates and expect the "happy ending" nor do we want to keep this person for the long term. I do make assumptions that may not be true in your case...since you tried it twice.. That you would prefer to share your life. This as opposed to a female cat who walks the area and dosen't need a home. No nasty analogy here intended.

In our lives we fit into different modes and times. I remember when sex was fun and free or at least it was not so complicated way back when. As today, sex is life and death and not very fun with the serious nature. It is not monogamy now.....it tends to be more about celibacy as the single ones out there think they must wear a body condom to have contact.
The times are not so fun or spontaneous as love and dating 30 years ago. Everybody talks about committment ....when it used to be about relationships which were more transitory but caring , while they lasted.

I do think you prefer to be cared about and more secure than what you have found in that relationship. I think you would not take the man on a gift, but it seems there is some fulfillment which was lacking in the marriages (which were mostly unhappy.) These are my assumptions.

I hope you do focus some to know you want to be in a good situation in the long term...married or not. I hope you do find some answers here or at least vent some thoughts and find acceptance and caring exists on these pages. Yes, I do think I am somewhat formidable...opinionated and probably not so tactful. Since I am a survivor of real tough times in life. I think I have some lessons to base advise to others. What got me through might be my childlike faith that there is somebody for everybody. In simple terms that makes me a romantic. I love happy endings. I hope you find yours, Grace.

Thanks, Grace, that you enjoy my posts. I genuinely care about people who post here in their loneliness and disquiet. I can really blast too someone who may not have a clue and throws happiness away with both hands. Though God helps fools I think we are responsible for much of what we bring on ourselves. Certainly, sharing here gives strength to another who may seek along the same path some of us already walked.

In my case it was a rotten childhood through rotten marriages but I always had a light inside that I would overcome it all. I felt I was protected by a God who forgave my stupidity in mistakes I made that got me into these messes. I also kept my big sense of humor. Writing posts is cathartic for our own own lives and reading for another may help someone who seeks a path through adversity. All of that builds character. I hope you survive with your good head intact and go on to a comfortable life ahead with security for you and your children.

[Ageing Grace]

Thank you so much for your amazing letter! Please don't think this is a lazy reply - your post is so packed with thought, quote-and-response is the only way I can do it without posting a 10-page essay!

[quote=1aokgal;40283]you would prefer to share your life.[/quote]
I would! - I do - I desperately want to make sure that next time, whenever it may be, I bring an experience & hope of love to the party. Previously my expectation was to be hurt. I didn't even realise I was [I]choosing[/I] hurt. You can sit in the park and figure it out after counselling - that's the hard part, the theory - but you still need to do the practical.

[quote=1aokgal;40283]the single ones out there think they must wear a body condom to have contact. The times are not so fun or spontaneous[/quote]
Very evocative, 1aokgal You're right, too, it's far more problematic. To think of the fun I [I]could[/I] have had if I'd been less screwed-up back then .... Ah, well.

[quote=1aokgal;40283]I always had a light inside that I would overcome it all[/quote]
Lucky you! Not so lucky in what happened to you, of course. But fortunate to have known that light. I used to think of myself as a slug inside a thick, shiny shell. Oh, that would make me a snail, wouldn't it

[quote=1aokgal;40283]acceptance and caring exists on these pages[/quote]
It really does. This is a superb community! Every thread I read; every post I write - contributes to my improved (I hope) understanding of how the love-and-kindness thing works. Not that I was unkind before, but to [I]accept[/I] kindness instead of mistrusting it ... that's my challenge. I think I'm doing okay. Fair enough, I took my first 'practical' in a situation where mistrust was built-in. Maybe it felt safer that way: who knows? It was certainly the best opportunity available at the right time.

In the guy's defence, he didn't behave in any of the stereotypical ways you mentioned. He's been unfailingly considerate, up to & including his respect for my no-contact request. So, obviously, I don't know how things are working out for him and his wife. What I do know is that I'm starting to believe I [I]can[/I] be treated with consideration & respect. In general, I mean ... not only by the one individual.

[quote=1aokgal;40283]I love happy endings. I hope you find yours, Grace.[/quote]
I do too! And thank you One of the many things I've learned is that there isn't really an 'ending' within this life. It's a journey; sometimes a difficult one. Actually mine hasn't been as hard as yours - but pushing the analogy, I seem to have been walking in badly-fitting boots for 50+ years! Now I've taken them off - so wish me some nice, soft grass to walk on

[quote=1aokgal;40283]Thanks, Grace, that you enjoy my posts. I genuinely care about people who post here in their loneliness and disquiet.[/quote]
That's very clear. You're a blast of fresh air, and perceptive. I think you overestimate your own abruptness. You're gentle with those who need it - and when they don't, well, you're very funny!

A thousand thanks for all the trouble you've taken. And for forcing me to clarify

AG