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Old 8th April 2005, 07:20 PM   #166
helenrw200
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

But one of the main arguments made against porn - and I heard it from my wife many times - is how porn and masturbating to it is a type of 'unfaithfulness.

I'm afraid I have to agree there, I view masturbation to porn to be unfaithfulness and I also can't help feeling that that may be where it begins, who knows where it may lead ? I guess it's that thought that worries me . When do celluloid pictures become not enough ? What happens then ? Phone sex lines ? Massage parlours ? Strip clubs ? Prostitutes ?

My first feeling when I discovered my partner was indulging in porn was " what's wrong with me ? " My self esteem nose dived , I felt not only hurt but unloved and unwanted despite his protestations that it didn't alter his feelings or desire for me and it was " just what men do "
I have to admit that I don't trust him at all now, I question everything and have a worm of suspicion in the pit of my stomach every moment he isn't physically with me. I hate feeling this way.
Helen
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Old 9th April 2005, 03:59 PM   #167
alidawn
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

I suggested to my husband that we watch porn together. This way because he doesnt feel he needs to hide it, it seems to have lost a lot of its appeal. When he does put it on he watches it while holding and touching me. I have asked him what he thinks about the women in the videos, and he said that while looking at the videos he is thinking of me and things we can do together, him not him and the girl on the videos. He would never ask me to do something Im not comfortable with, but still likes fantisising about it. It has helped our relationship because it has made me feel ok with talking to him about sex - that is something I didnt think I would ever be able to do. Im not saying its right or wrong but maybe it is something you could consider. My husband also deleted his porn off his computer because he knew that I wasnt comfortable with it being on there. I found it a lot less offensive to have a few videos hidden from public view in the bedroom!
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Old 13th April 2005, 01:11 AM   #168
SelaW
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

My husband is a heavy porn user and has been for years. Our sex life is pretty well nonexistant because of this. But he has never strayed outside the marriage for sex and according to the research I've done it is rare for men to
graduate from computer porn use to real life affairs despite what some of the religious websites say.

Women have a hard time understanding this because we tend to see this problem from a female point of view. We feel that the best sex is sex you have with another person. But many if not most men are quite satisfied with masturbating to porn. It is fast, easy and offers unlimited choices and variety. And it doesn't involve the complications of an interpersonal relationship. Indeed, many men feel that masturbating to porn is not even cheating, even if
marital sex has dwindled down to nothing.
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Old 13th April 2005, 11:37 PM   #169
Hopeful
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by SelaW
Indeed, many men feel that masturbating to porn is not even cheating, even if marital sex has dwindled down to nothing.
And maybe that is the crux of it all: hording all the sex to oneself. Sex leaves the arena of the marital relationship and the husband's pelvis becomes the new arena.

I've dealt with my problem of masturbating for years. How I got into the habit (or addiction) is a complicated matrix of influences and personal weaknesses.

When I masturbated daily, I wasn't available for my wife. Our sex life dwindles because I am exhausted and spent. When a guy doesn't masturbate in his marriage, believe me, when it comes to sex with the wife, she gets her fill.

Anything we do affects our spouse either directly or indirectly. Time spent on the computer checking out the galleries is time away from my wife. Instead of sitting in front of a monitor looking at big breasted women, many of which are silicone implants, I could be sitting next to my wife for the evening having interesting conversations (letting her vent) and maybe a chance to play (being allowed to fondle her). Since trying to tear away from my former addiction to porn and masturbation, I have come to enjoy my wife a whole lot better. Not only do I get to see breasts daily, I get to actually touch them.

Tell me that porn doesn't intrude and interrupt a relationship. I used to think that porn wasn't a form of 'unfaithfulness' until I realized I was being more unfaithful to myself than my wife. I was denying myself the real thing. Since I removed my faith in my relationship with my wife over time, I became de-faithed or un-faithed in her. My trust went to a computer.

I agree with SelaW that many men may not consider porn and/or masturbation a form of unfaithfulness. But beware. When many spouses, usually wives, consider this term it should be telling us something. Whether it is or not, many DO consider it a form of being unfaithful. Technically speaking, it might be a bad choice of words, but it is the most understood term that reflects how the spouse feels.

Hopeful
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Old 22nd April 2005, 09:25 PM   #170
wendyK
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Unhappy Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

I cannot believe just how betrayed I feel by my husband's masturbating to pornography... I am crushed! For the two years we've been married, I've always felt unfulfilled with out sex life (once or twice a month) yet I always believed him when he said he was tired, or too stressed, or --this is the best -- to full from dinner! Also, within our three year relationship, I could NEVER initiate sex, EVER. Turned him off. ... HE needed to be the one to initiate. "Just the way I feel about sex," he'd say. Now, mind you, I tried dressing sexy, sexy scenerarios (Ex. the great outdoors), kissing him and rubbing him, etc. Nothing. Also, I must say I am a rather cute, petite blonde with a television career who works out often. But now that I found his internet porn stash and checked out all the giant mammaries he's been getting off on ... I feel completley and totally inadequate and worst of all ... UNSEXY!!! When I confronted him, he said he masturbated "three or so times a week" and that lust is different from love. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?? So instead of having sex with me, he'd rather have it with himself. I am grossed out and disgusted and don't know if I can ever think of him or our relationship the same. HELP!!
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Old 22nd April 2005, 09:45 PM   #171
helenrw200
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Hi Wendy
Believe me I know EXACTLY how you feel. When I found out my partner of 3 years had been visiting live sex sites on the net and paying women to perform for him, I was disgusted, blamed myself, thought I must be failing in some way . It knocked my self confidence for 6 , I felt unattractive and betrayed . My partner insists it has nothing to do with his feelings for me, doesn't stop him loving me or wanting to make love to me, but I find that hard to believe.
He is adamant that it is " just what men do ", Hopeful ( on here ) was a big help to me , helping me to understand that men can and do use porn and get addicted to it, and that it doesn't stop them loving their wives . I hope I've managed to put a stop to it now, but deep down I just wonder if it has made him more secretive about it, I'm suspicious of him and the trust has totally gone.
I think as women ( or at least in my case ) we consider it a form of infidelity , I certainly felt he had been unfaithful and I've found it very hard to forgive that. I asked him how would he feel if I did the same thing on here with men , he answered that it wouldn't bother him. That is a complete LIE , he hates me even chatting to male friends online and had pretty much banned me from talking to them ( I stopped because he felt so strongly about it, out of respect for his feelings, my feelings don't seem to count however ).
It is a total shock, and I feel for you , but in the end there isn't really much you can do except make your feelings on it clear and hope he respects them enough not to do it any more.
I did feel our sex life had suffered although he used pretty much the same excuses your man did, too tired, etc , it has improved of late, so I feel he has either given it up or found a lot more energy than he used to have to throw me off the scent .
The trust is gone now, and I don't know if it will ever come back , I'm always thinking during our love making " Is he thinking about those girls ? "
Some people have suggested that men do it because they have TOO much respect for their partners , if they have fetishes etc that they wouldn't ask their partners to do, but to me that begs the question does that then mean it is also ok for them to go to a prostitute or have an affair with someone that CAN do these things for them ???
I just don't know, I wish you luck.
Helen
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Old 25th April 2005, 05:22 PM   #172
Sad Wife
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Its like reading my own journal to read some of these posts online. I have posted here many months ago on another thread, but this thread has proven most useful, especially reading through the story of the husband who has worked so hard to change and regain his wifes trust and affection. Stick with it!


Like the previous poster I was so shocked and disgusted to learn that my husband was watching porn and taking care of himself a couple of times a week all while he was less and less interested in me and "tired" half the time I tried to initiate with him. Not that it was all so good when he didnt argue that he was too tired, because even then I had to start everything and push for it, and by the time he got interested it almost felt like pity sex, and who wants that. Then I was left to wonder if he was even thinking about me, or the last porno babe he got off too. I have been so hurt and angry. The first couple of times I tried to tell him how I felt and get him to stop he just lied and said he would and then went right back to it, trying to hide it better. But he always got caught. He would forget and leave cds full of porn out, and finally after a couple of lies I actually started checking up on him.

Well, after our last big blow out I finally just put my foot down, told him I loved him but I could not live like this, he was making me hate him and hate me (wow, did my self esteem plumett, felling like I couldnt even satisfy someone who I had only been married to a couple of months). I also told him I didnt want to have kids with a man who was going to teach this kind of sdisrespect towards women to out children, teach our daughters that they would never be enough, that men think of women as sex objects. I have very strong opinions that porn is degrading towards women. I also told him that I couldnt go on like this because his porn viewing (and enjoyment of rape scenes) was bringing up unresolved issues from my childhood that I really didnt want to have on my mind anymore. He actually started crying with me and promised that he was really going to quit this time, that he couldnt lose me. We got rid of the internet and he hasnt had any time home alone to try to do it again, but I still find that I cant forgive him, have no idea how to trust him anymore. Any time he is not with me I have this little doubt, and I am constantly anxious that he will get home from work before me and maybe he still has some cds full of porn that I didnt find and throw out before.

How can I forgive and trust again when I still feel so angry and hurt and afraid all the time that he just lied to me again???
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Old 26th April 2005, 12:10 PM   #173
gingerninja
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

its great to know that i am not alone . i have been living with a porn addict for the last six months it makes me feel terrible about myself and i am fed up with punishing myself for his actions . its not the act its the lies that go with that act, how can i trust a man who lies to me, how can i build a true relationship with him when its all at the back of my mind? He has addmitted that he is an addict, we have removed his money and his access to the internet, has it help? till yesterday it had, then i found the pictures that he had downloaded and saved to disk! another row more tears and hurt from me and more promises of never doing it again, ive told him everytime he lies i love him less, and that i trust him less and that it will be the end of our relationship, will he do it again? oh yes its like heroin he just cant seem to help himself, he says that he doesnt even like it, that he feels dirty and horrible about himself when he does it, crazy! He says that he doesnt masterbate do i believe him NO, do i think that im not giving him what he needs , YES if the need is there then there is something missing? i would just like to know what, i would walk on hot coals to make this feeling stop and i would give the man anything, something that he will trow away just for a few moments to look at naked flesh, For any man reading this, please think before you do it, is that fantasy really worth losing what you love? Really? then you dont deserve what you have. Any advice to save my relationhip would be great, i cant cry about it anymore and if it carrys on then i will end up hating him for putting fantasy before my flesh. If we had a bad relationship or a bad sex life i would be more understanding, i just cant add it all up or understand the need for it, someone please tell me where i am lacking and just what i can do about it PLEASE
gingerninja
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Old 26th April 2005, 06:09 PM   #174
helenrw200
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

To be truthful I'm not sure there is anything you can physically do to stop someone in this situation. You can ask, you can try to trust that they won't, but , as I have found out to my cost, sometimes it can just drive the problem underground and make them more secretive.

I've been where you are, still am there to a certain extent , I to have tried the restricted internet access etc, but I still find it hard to trust him as I don't understand why he had to do it in the first place, and he refuses to discuss it.

Sadly I am coming to the conclusion that the only way to be sure is to leave, and that's hard when you love someone or to put up with it and ignore it, which I know I can't do.

I've read the articles on here about trust and forgiveness and even how to handle arguments but I'm finding the reality a little more complicated as he doesn't really want to go into it all and unless it's talked openly about I'm not sure I can forgive.

I feel for you.
Helen
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Old 26th April 2005, 10:18 PM   #175
Lovey
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sad Wife
I still find that I cant forgive him, have no idea how to trust him anymore. Any time he is not with me I have this little doubt, and I am constantly anxious that he will get home from work before me and maybe he still has some cds full of porn that I didnt find and throw out before.

How can I forgive and trust again when I still feel so angry and hurt and afraid all the time that he just lied to me again???
You should feel angry, hurt and afraid. That's okay! I felt that way for a while too but eventually, you can trust again. You have to give yourself time. He needs to give you time. We're all different and it will take as long as it'll take for you to get over all of the lies. Read all of my posts and you'll see that it can happen. Learning to understand why he was looking at the porn might help in your quest for peace.

---
To the other ladies: YOU ARE NOT LACKING IN ANYTHING. Please believe this. It's not you. You can be beautiful or smart, heavy or skinny. It has nothing to do with you.

Talking openly about it is the best thing. Understanding, listening and not pointing acusing fingers ... all help.
The fact that some of you have removed the internet or have restricted them access tells me that it will be harder to forgive and trust again because you didn't solve the issue, you just pushed it underground. You still don't trust and you never will if you start to control them.
They're not sick, bad guys.. some do it for fun and others are addicted. The key is finding out which your man is and going from there. If you treat them like they are children and restrict things, they're going to do it on their own.
True, if he's not willing to stop there is nothing you can do to stop him. I always say counselling helps if you both can't get past this part. It's okay to do that too.

I feel for you all as I was in a similar situation recently (as you've probably read).
Big hugs to you all.
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Old 27th April 2005, 08:10 AM   #176
gingerninja
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

thank you all, we spoke last night, well i spoke and he listened, i know that he will do it again but he asked for my help so ive tried to take away temptation,it was his idea to stop him being able to get into the p.c. This time i made him cry, how bad does that feel! i didnt hold back on how he had made me feel less of a woman, one who before thought she was one sexy girl! not lost yet just hiding for a while tbh i never thought something could affect me so badly, i think i just feel second best to girls i cant compeate with, younger, more attractive and thinner women i know just are not real. All the feelings are so hard to put into words. I was amazed yesterday when i went on google with th words "how can i help a sex addict" so many women saying the same things i have i dont feel so alone or dirty any more i feel more able to cope, he will do it again but i know that he is trying and i dont for one second doubt that he loves me, its just a matter of time and understanding on both sides.
thanks for your words they mean a lot.
Gingerninja
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Old 3rd May 2005, 06:44 PM   #177
explorer
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Wow most of you are so down on porn and masturbation. I can see how you all might come to the conclusion that those are the problems. But coming from a marriage where we regularly watch porn together and masturbate with full knowledge of each others activities, these are not a problem. Both porn and masturbation can be used to enhance a couples sexual activities. With all your husbands that seem to hoard it to themselves and selfishly keep it to themselves, they have deeper issues with the relationship.
My wife and I watch porn movies all the time and learn new things to try as well as both get much more sexually aroused watching together and of course knowing that after we are done (don't usually get too far into the porn) watching the porn we are going to be satisfying each other. And often that satisfaction comes in watching each other masturbate and helping and other things. To be quite honest the best way to learn how to please your partner is to watch them masturbate. I do feel sorry that both porn and masturbation have had such a negative impact on your relationships but my wife and I are proof that those same things can be very beneficial to the relationship as well if done togther and on those occassions when not togther being completely open and honest about it.
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Old 3rd May 2005, 07:33 PM   #178
Lovey
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Explorer, not everyone is saying that it can't help a relationship. It can with some- it obviously helps you and your partner and that's great if it does.
The people who hoard it as you say don't necessarily have deeper problems in the relationship as they do within themselves. Trust me. I know.
As for me: I don't need to watch porn to masturbate with my husband nor does he need to as we have always been able to masturbate with each other. We have been able to get aroused and have sex twice daily in different positions and have a great time, for the past three years without watching porn. It isn't necessary for everyone to watch porn.
In the past I have watched porn alone and with my ex husband. I also worked in porn for a while. It was fine but not the kind of lifestyle I want for myself personally!!
I think we all should realise that the issue is not porn the issue is what one does with it. I agree with you! It's the same as keeping any sort of secret from a spouse.
It's great that you and your partner are able to be positive about porn. Good for you for having an open relationship in that respect. Cheers to you!
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Old 3rd May 2005, 07:35 PM   #179
Lovey
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by gingerninja
thank you all, we spoke last night, well i spoke and he listened, i know that he will do it again but he asked for my help so ive tried to take away temptation,it was his idea to stop him being able to get into the p.c. This time i made him cry, how bad does that feel! i didnt hold back on how he had made me feel less of a woman, one who before thought she was one sexy girl! not lost yet just hiding for a while tbh i never thought something could affect me so badly, i think i just feel second best to girls i cant compeate with, younger, more attractive and thinner women i know just are not real. All the feelings are so hard to put into words. I was amazed yesterday when i went on google with th words "how can i help a sex addict" so many women saying the same things i have i dont feel so alone or dirty any more i feel more able to cope, he will do it again but i know that he is trying and i dont for one second doubt that he loves me, its just a matter of time and understanding on both sides.
thanks for your words they mean a lot.
Gingerninja
Oh ginger, just try to remember that they're only on the computer and you're in his heart and life. You are still sexy. Remember that it is his issue and that you can help him with it if he wants help. Read all of Hopeful's posts and how he helped me with helping my husband's issue with porn. He's a godsend, truly.
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Old 4th May 2005, 10:05 PM   #180
surferdude
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Re: masturbation, porn and marriage

I am new here and I am sure my honesty will not be received well because of my opinion but I am in a marriage that has almost no physical intimacy and I am a very sexual person. I love my wife and we are like best friends but part of what has kept me in this marriage is my masturbating and even chatting with others. It in no way makes me any less attracted to my wife or love her any less but it is the only way for me to relieve my tension. I agree that many feel it is cheating. I would have very bad feelings toward my wife if I were unable to let go of my tension in a sexual way. Before when I was looking out for my wife’s feelings and not masturbating or sending messages to other women I would be very angry about not having sex and I could not even sleep and we would fight about sex all the time. Now we never fight about it and I don’t push her to be more intimate. I do all I can for her and I love being around her. I think if I were unable to release my sexual tension I would have left her for someone else before now. As much fun as I have with other women online I never felt like I wanted to leave my wife for someone else.



I even trade photos of myself with a few women who I have gotten to know and send photos back. Some of these women are in the same situation with their husbands not wanting sex so we help each other.



I am sure many of you will think I am a monster for doing this to my wife but I am hoping that you will see there is another side to it.



Thanks for listening.



By the way if my wife ever wanted to have sex I would not need to masturbate or communicate with other women.
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