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Old 29th July 2011, 01:11 PM   #181
Raymond
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Re: Really need some advice this is bad

There is life after this HB. You have to believe it. Yes you are having a funeral for her right now which is in a sense healthy but please don't fantasise how good she is. Your posts show a disrespect there and a continuing flirting on facebook with old boyfriends etc. She has been unfaithful to you. My wife would never talk to a boyfriend from the past. She came straight to me when one contacted her because that is being faithful, not secretly indulging some old desire. These kind of things can kill off the love we should have for our spouses like kind of indulging in a fantasy what could have been or what could be world.

This funeral is healthy although painful for you. From here you will rise little by little. Don't make major decisions now. Be kind to yourself and stay strong if only for your youngest son. Hang on to the house. You don't want to see her there with a new boyfriend down the line as Forever correctly pointed out. Have a good cry and then move on and keep busy. You have a lot of life ahead of you.

There are lots on here who have been what you have been through and have healed. You have in your favour that you have been faithful. A lot will be looking for that quality at this stage of their lives especially ones that have been cheated on. I am talking of the distant future not now but you have to move forward.
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Old 29th July 2011, 02:18 PM   #182
heartbroken
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Re: Really need some advice this is bad

thanks R, when i wrote the last post in the early hours i was in a very dark place, but today i must decide or she will go, and yeah i should just let her go.

I was willing at every stage to make this work but still she disrepected me, i offered many solutions instead she put me through hell, every other day saying she loved me when she saw the pain i was going through out of sheer guilt, i thought this was genuine and she cared but it was her own selfish guilt i see that but its hard at the time. For 4 months she did this unable to handle her guilt bearible only because i was at work but at the weekends she would stuggle and the truth would come out, then back to square one saying she really did not love me and crushing me all over, on top of that the fb thing, there was no difinitive proof but i agree should not have been happening at all as sign of disrespect even when asked not to, she used to hide the pc from me when next to her so am sorry it seems she was scared of me seeing things no matter how innocent she says they were, it should not have been happening, her changing of mind was through guilt not love or care.

Even now when i offer a solution to help her and for me to deal with the guilt of my son moving to his inlaws this is for her own benefit and i suppose being practical, shows she is only thinking to limit the upheaval to herself not the kids, but why should i its not my fault, but then my paternal instinct kicks in as well as the guilt for what i see is my fault he has to go there.

Why should i offer a solution for her she didnt offer any when trying to fix things nor did she care what she was doing just because she says she was doing no wrong anyone can see how it looked but still she did it. Driving me crazy.

Still even now she has the ex boyfriends on there refusing to remove them suggests she couldnt care less, even though she does not really talk to them, one guy yes but not all, to have one guy in particular contact her ast week, and offers a weak excuse saying it was to tell him i could no longer wanted to talk to him is very lame the word could is different from dont want to, what she meant was because of me and against her own wants she couldnt, i do think excuse is very lame why not just say that from the start the very start and there would have been no problem i would have seen see was being truthful, but no she continued to talk to him, even now she keeps her moby beside her on silent and now hides it in the house when i am here, after asking she said that was because i always look for it to check, again lame as if there was nothing ( actually there isnt ) but why would you worry?? for privicy she now has all the privicy she wants if its over why worry.

All very confusing i know, i do seem to confuse care and love with guilt i know she is only telling me she does out of guilt but i just longed for her to say this to me.

Of course my sons know i love them and would never want to hurt them, i feel they would think i didnt by them moving to inlaws but i know they know that is not the case, that is her doing.

For her to say i am acting unreasonible when i find yet another chat or find out she had him call is silly what else would any person expect, to just sit back and take it, considering she usually offers no explanation at all fueling suspition or comes up with lame excuses, am sorry but for her to hand out her moby number in April just incase he wanted to call her is crazy, why else would she do this other than she wanted him to call her, if he wanted to call her he would have given her his number and if not interested would have deleted it, her handing it out just for the fun of a chat to him seems crazy and lame, then asking him to call her again says that it is her who wants to chat not the other way round, i really dont buy her excuses and i still try to find reason why she would do all these things if as she says she is not interested, maybe her tears are of guilt and sorry for her marriage coming to and end not for me and feels sad, come on !! if you were really that bothered that it was failing you would keep trying wouldnt you????


So now i am sitting trying to weigh things up again, no i dont want my marriage to end and have been trying to move on mentally convincing myself that i no longer love or want to be with her, but i do.

If she did do or had done something wrong, i wouldnt think twice about her, but i dont or cant see what she has done or maybe she has conviced me or manipulated my mind to believe her.
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Old 29th July 2011, 02:24 PM   #183
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Re: Really need some advice this is bad

Trying to convince yourself that you don't love her is an exercise in futility. Don't even try it. Instead, remind yourself of why being with her is not a good idea despite the fact that you love her. She has proven herself to be a poor mate in many ways. Remind yourself of those things.
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Old 29th July 2011, 03:10 PM   #184
heartbroken
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Re: Really need some advice this is bad

i think i have been doing both, but more of the convincing tbh.

I know its futile to try to convince myself as sooner or later it will hit me that i do i cant control that, but as you say there are many reasons why she is no good, again i try to convice myself that she is good and that she was simply making mistakes and could not find a solution for them, but in all honesty they were at the time a choice not mistakes, SHE chose to, and was not something that she could control she could have, not a mistake but a choice.

Yeah it may have been a mistake she spoke to the guy and continued but again it was a choice she did not have to nor should have, it was not that she had no control she wanted to and chose to do it, this is no mistake if it was a mistake as many of us make you would learn from it and not repeat it or would repent for forgiveness, she has never given me that impression instead offers sorry for the fact she keeps doing it, hope that makes sense.

Mistakes you learn and would look to be forgiven, i always forgave everytime as i thought over the years they were mistakes, but i now realise they were a choice on her part she wanted to, not something that just happened and was out of control, she was in control CHOICE.

That was how we lost one of our homes, initially she made a mistake which could have been sorted but instead and she admits she chose not to fix it as she didnt like where the house was, INTURN WE ( 4 OF US ) had to live at her mums in a room 10ft by 12ft for over a year. CHOICE.

When i was self employed she made a mistake with my accounts which could have easily been fixed if she had mentioned it or told me she did not no how, but CHOSE not to causing me to lose my job and owe thousands£££ssss to the tax man as well as being out of a job again CHOICE.

When she spent £3000 pounds cash online in one go while at her mums this was a choice not an incontrolable unavoidible mistake, she could have switched it off,

When she spent of our money from the sale of the house which was to rebuild our future in another home ( over £30k ) it was a choice.

When she cheated on me 3 times at the start of our relationship young not married but with a baby and a house trying to make a life, me working on the oilrigs away from home she choice to cheat on me, this was not a mistake that could not have been avoided she went out got drunk and cheated again a choice, she never learned as she did it when sober and more than once, again choice. This was many many years ago, i did forgive her.

When she went out after many years of me being away from the oil industry and returned to that line of work she went out again, but this time was attacked and suffered 60 stiches to her face by the hands of some stranger and a pint glass, this was not a choice, well kind of obviously she didnt want that to happen but did punch the guy inturn he did this, not excusible but maybe to an extent avoidible, even then as it happened when i was on an oil rig she waited until a week after to tell me, i had actually read it in a national newpaper but there was no name, i only found out the day i was due to come home she waited till the last minute to tell me, WHY i will never know cause she didnt want to hurt me ????????

When she feel out of love with me it was a choice as i had done nothing wrong she admits this, she could choice to tell me and work it out before it was all to late but she never instead left things to as she says get worse, again a choice.

My god why didnt i see this, that yeah we all make mistakes but theres a difference, we make mistakes if it is unavoidible or out of our control and learn to try not to put ourselves in that position if we can help it , but to do something that you want or have a choice to fix then that is different, the person wanted to do that, an aha moment lol.

I do still love her but things are changing for me i dont feel it so bad as i see she is no good and wrestle with my thoughts convincing myself that she is or that the person i wish she was.

Finally, she had a choice to stay and still does till she finds somewhere i suggested that ( to late now tbh the damage is done ) but could have at the start, or go to her mums with my youngest and put him through rebuilding there lives again without me. This was avoidible if only she had prepared herself or told me so we could have fixed it together, instead again she waited till the last minute and was already too late, i am now trying to limit the damage to my son, i now have the choice even though this is not my doing, do i go to my mums leaving my son in his home while she looks for somewhere else and stays there, me paying the bills so she does have some way to save, or do i give the choice back to her to put our son through that, she does have choices i gave many, should i make the choice or should i leave it with her as it was down to her. the only reason she does not want to stay here with me is because she couldnt save money so quickly, she could but i suppose now it would be unbearable. The only choice is go to her mums and save or me go to my mums and pay her bills to save and at the end i get my home back once she has one of her own.

Last edited by heartbroken; 29th July 2011 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 29th July 2011, 03:37 PM   #185
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Re: Really need some advice this is bad

I often fall into the same trap I think you're falling into sometimes, HB. You have an idealized vision of her in your head and that's what is so hard to leave. You want to find a way to excuse her "mistakes" so that she can BE that person you want her to be.

But the fact is, who you've been living with is not who you're in love with. You're in love with who you thought she could be, hoped she could be, wished she could be. It is even possible that SHE wishes she was that person too. But just wishing it doesn't make it happen.

As you said, making a mistake once (even if it ended up being a bad choice) is forgiveable if you can see that the person learned a lesson and that they never did anything similar again. That's not the way your wife has behaved over your years together.

This is going to sound silly but it helped me to make a very simple statement of what had brought Joe and I to splitting up and I posted it on the refrigerator. For me, it was simply "Joe is emotionally immature". For you, it would probably be more like "My wife has shown over and over again that she is incapable of change and who she is does not make for a good mate".
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Old 29th July 2011, 03:54 PM   #186
chosen
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Re: Really need some advice this is bad

If she needs to save,then she can do that at her mums surely? I doubt that her mum will charge her much (or any) for the rent, and if your son wants to go with her, at least he will be with his grandmother as well.
If she has definately decided that she wants the marriage to end, then she will need to work and pay her own way and sort out all of her debts herself. If you allow her to stay in the house , then I doubt you will ever be able to go back there. You need that house for you and the children, should they decide they want to be with you at some time, and for when they stay with you. If she does get together with another man, they may well want to be with you anyway.
You cant keep on bailing her out and giving her money when she is the one who is leaving and messing everyones lives up.How will she ever learn if you do this?
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Old 29th July 2011, 05:57 PM   #187
Raymond
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Re: Really need some advice this is bad

HB you are talking up well now and seeing the truth for what it is. All that you have said does not paint a woman who has your interests at heart. Love should be from the will in marriage as well as from feelings and should reflect care of the other. This we do not see here. Remember this if you get down again. I like you talking like this rather than the way you were talking before. If you have any doubts read these threads. Right from the beginning there was trouble in the way she was behaving. For goodness sake do not reward her with your house. Make a nice home where your youngest will want to come. I say youngest as I don't think it was pleasant for your oldest son to say to you get a life when you were going through it. I hope it wasn't as bad as it sounded to me on here.

I suspect that she will want to manipulate you to get what she wants but you must be ready for that. Your weakness is the false guilt that you get. That could be the Achilles heel that leaves you high and dry under the care of your mother. You must watch this. Believe me if you were guilty I would be the first to let you know. You have done everything that you could do and you must love yourself as well in the right sense and be kind to yourself.
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Old 29th July 2011, 06:14 PM   #188
heartbroken
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Re: Really need some advice this is bad

i have now just been made aware of a major problem.

My wife has been to a solicitor and said she wants the marriage to end, and that she wants the house, she also said that because the kids want to be in the house and with her??? they didnt before, that they have suggested that there needs are greater and i may have to leave now, i should have went to see a solicitor by now but have really been sruggling now, what do i do this really is the final, i through her a lifeline and she stabbed me in the back, she now wants the house ( both our names are on it) and the kids, my whole life she wants to take with no choice to me, i offered solutions all the way, every turn of way.

Now after even trying to help her and even offered to decorate her next house she is wanting to take it all from me, and i know the favour swings with her as she will have the kids in the end, so i really cant win can i there needs are greater and i will be left with nothing paying out maintenance, all this and she admits i did nothing wrong she wants it all and all without me, i will ask again if she wants to leave but allow me to have the house thats the least she could do after all the devotion etc, but i doubt it now, i see her for what she is all the way a cold clculating heartless woman who wants now to take my whole life from me, i will never trust this woman ever and dont want to be her as she say friend, not a chance, not now i if given the chance will not feel any guilt again or waste any more feelings or tears on this person, but what do i do now do i stay in the house until i am driven either by her or law to leave or just go and forget her and live my life peacefully and with my head held high knowing i was the better person and tried all at the end of day, should i stay till i am asked to leave by a solicitor or save the hasle and just go they will get it i know that.
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Old 29th July 2011, 06:34 PM   #189
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Re: Really need some advice this is bad

I can't speak for things in your country but I can tell you that here in the US, my advice would be for you to stay.

A first visit to a lawyer is a long way from the ultimate resolution. Yes, you do need to go to an attorney and the sooner you do so, the better. Just as she is telling her lawyer that she wants the house and the kids? You need to tell your attorney the same thing.

It is possible that in the end, she will get to stay in the house. But you will be allowed to get your name off of it and, depending upon her financial circumstances, she may have to pay you back your half of the equity.

Get your fanny to an attorney, a good one, and listen to what they say.
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Old 29th July 2011, 06:54 PM   #190
chosen
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Re: Really need some advice this is bad

I agree with tmw. She has taken this to the next level, so you need to as well. Dont believe a thing that she says about the matter, but go to see a solicitor asap. Dont leave the house. You can negotiate with her through the solicitor and it will be sorted out who has what. It may be that whoever has the children, will be able to stay in the house till the youngest is 18, and then it will be sold and the proceeds spilt, or it maybe that the house will need to be sold after the divorce and you each have a percentage of the profits to put towards another one.
Now she has got legal advise you need to as well. I suspect that you will be told to stay put. Also can you try and get custody, or at least 50% custody of your son?
It may be a good idea for you both to sort this all out through the solicitors from now on. You need good legal advise.
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Old 29th July 2011, 09:00 PM   #191
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Re: Really need some advice this is bad

Be careful about removing your name from the house (via Quit Claim Deed) and just walking away. All that will do is insure that you have no rights to the property...it will not release you from the mortgage debt at all. I did this and was shocked years later when I wanted to buy another house to find that I was still on the loan...although no longer one of the legal owners of the property. That prevented me from qualifying for another home as the mortgage had $300k left.

You can figure out how much equity each of you would get, minus selling fees, and then offer to get a loan (refinancing the house in your name only) to pay her off....or vice versa.

Do you still owe on the house? At any rate, I would recommend that you do nothing until you see a solicitor and until you absolutely have to. Dont run scared, and dont surrender the ship without a fight. If she wants out, show her the door. Just stand your ground or you will NEVER be able to go back into the home, even though you will have to continue making the payments if you want to see your half of the equity, if and when it is sold way down the line. She can get a restraining order for some flimsy excuse and have you locked out once you do leave.

I know a man who went through basically the same as you are. His ex wife was an extra special piece of work, running up debt and flirting with any man who would give her notice. He kept forgiving, and worked even harder to keep up with her spending. After she decided she had never been happy, she got him to move out, keeping the children with her to ensure that he would have to keep paying for everything. He hatched a devious plan.

He stopped making the payments on the house and on ALL of the debts. He moved in with his parents and stashed away alot of cash, then he "lost" his job so wages could not be garnished. He trickled just enough money to cover the cost of whatever the children needed and no more. They lost the house, then he started a whole new life with no ball and chain to cause him grief and additional manipulations. That house was the only "hold" she had over him because she was going to be able to remain there until their last child was 18 years old (a free ride), meanwhile letting it run down, devaluing it and having boyfriends stay. But she could not make the payments by herself, nor could she get a loan for the equity that was in it because he ruined their credit by filing Bankruptcy in addition to everything else. She ended up renting...just like he had to do.

His ex wife had been smearing his name behind his back for several years, effectively turning his children against him without ever letting him know that she was unhappy. So he just stopped caring about what anyone thought of him and what "they" felt he should be doing. Was this right? Well, he had provided for her the whole marriage and she felt that he should be continuing to do so...I guess you could say that he had a difference of opinion, and the power (for once) to implement it.

I asked him if he felt good about himself after looking back. He said that it was only material possessions...not what a marriage is supposed to be made out of. He felt that unless he let go of all of it, he would just become an embittered person because she could continue to "puppet" and threaten him for years for all that he had worked for. He said he worked for a family, not for an empire, and that had been taken away with the stroke of a pen. Several years later, the children were being pulled through knot holes by her boyfriends and eventually went to live with him.

Last edited by Forever; 29th July 2011 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 29th July 2011, 09:47 PM   #192
1heartbrokenlady
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Re: Really need some advice this is bad

The question is who of the two of you are the children going to be living with.

If, as you suggested earlier, one of the children remains with you then it's equal in terms of a decision as to who remains in the family home.

Maybe it's too early to decide who the children go with. It may turn out that indeed one remains with you and the other goes with his mother. In this case there would be more of a chance that you could remain in the family home.

I know this is easy to say but maybe a fresh start in new surroundings would hold some value. I know from my experience when my first marriage ended I didn't want to remain in the family home. It was hard to leave in some ways - there were obviously some good memories, but there were also some not so good ones. My ex h was determined to stay there anyway, and I just thought there's no point at all in making the situation harder than it was already. It is an incredibly difficult time for all concened.

It is very hard, and you're feeling the pain from the wounding right now. This will make everything feel much more difficult than it would otherwise be. If I were you i wouldn't jump to any hasty decision, keep your cards close to your chest and go to see a solicitor as early as possible.

One thing that has occurred to me is that you mentioned that you w may have met/ started some kind of relationship with someone else. If this is the case then your children will most probably find it hard to adapt to and accept the relationship and to a potentially new father figure in their lives. They may decide that they want to be with you as you're their natural father.

It will be incredibly difficult for the kids, i don't know if yours are close to each other but they will need one another more than ever during this time. It's much better if they can remain together, they are able to support each other because they understand how one another is feeling.

It's a terribly difficult time, let's just hope that your w fully understands the gravity of the situation, and acts compassionately.
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Old 29th July 2011, 11:07 PM   #193
Raymond
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Re: Really need some advice this is bad

I could see this coming HB. Things are very plain now and I agree with all that you must stay put and get a solicitor to advise you. It is in a different league now and she has her sword drawn it seems. You must get a solicitor to protect what is yours by law.

If as you say you both have joint ownership of the house then you both own it and an obvious solution is a split down the middle. Where you get these cases where they are working out the wife's contribution in the house to make a case for her owning some of it is where her name (or his) is not on the deeds. It sounds like both your names are on the deeds so both your ownerships will not be in question. My wife has not contributed a penny to buying my house but she is still joint owner bless her.

It is time to fight as it sounds like she will have no mercy. You really do need advice from one who gives their time and learning to this very thing. It could save you a lot of money in the long run. She is moving fast so you musn't waste time but not in a panicky sort of way. Take it steady. There will be a lot to work out. I think access at their age will just be a matter of their choice in the long run.
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Old 30th July 2011, 02:36 AM   #194
heartbroken
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Re: Really need some advice this is bad

just to be clear there is no guy on the scene apart from the occassional chat or phone call, enough i suppose but by now way any affair, my situation this time round luckily is that we no longer own a house and that this one is rented phew, so really its just a tenentcy and the only tie is a name i would never be in that situation that i would own a home with her again, and that is never going to happen not now,
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Old 30th July 2011, 03:00 AM   #195
heartbroken
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Re: Really need some advice this is bad

something odd is happening let me explain.

I left the house to go explain to my mother and father that i am to receive the letter , they dont stay far away.

I returned pretty hacked of but with an undersatnding that it is defo over for our marriage, i came into my house and was not happy at all, i explained to my wife it did not have to be like this and asked what she wanted of me, things got horrible but not argumentitve, we were both very upset, we then started to talk honestly ?? we have had quite a few of these heart to hearts and we seem to be very understanding of each other just like we used to, my wife explained she was scared of what i would do to counter this, i never told her to much but said this had taken things to a new level, we both dont want this and again she explained she had only done this as she was scared?? i explained i was to as i felt she was being devious and calculating, we then very again upset i think because we both realise its over but she is further on in the process.

Suddenly we both realised on understanding each other a calm came over both of us and we decided to continue the convo in the kitch, we then were very honest saying things like we would both like to be friends bizarre i know and we took it from there, the chat lasted some 3 hours i think and many truths came out about we had both been feeling recently and in the last 2 years, we both agreed we had both realised to an extent we had both been feeling the same but she was further on than me, i do feel my love may have been dieing too but the rejection and fear had got hold of me and i paniced, ok i am worried where i will stay but i am not going to expect them to move , i am sorry but i just aint i love them all to much even her, we agreed that for her she did love me and care me and expressed she would like to have a best friend sort of relationship, me too but i do still hold a bit of a torch but lately i had felt she was taking all i loved from me, we were very very relaxed and enjoyed each others company stange i know, its all very odd, now she aint trying to lead me into a false sense of security it was genuine. We continued and seems we are making progress but both agree that the solicitors late was needed but hurt me as i felt she was moving quick, on a practical side this was needed and closure, but we still want to be able to see each other and go shopping or even take our youngest out sometimes together, again all odd i know and would also be willing to be there for each other, we even cuddled i was concerned as it may give mixed emotions but i dont know, its as if i am being comforted by the very person who is hurting strange, we agreed that i would not dispupt them and i seemed happy with this arrangment i hope i dont wake up even more confused, we really would like to be friends good friends and both hate all this we even both seem sad that our time as a couple is over but could in a strange way be friendly, i know all this seems odd but if it works for us then i would embrace this with open arms, i realise i still to an extent hold a touch for her but dont think i feel the same for her as i did so i am not looking to find rhe spark again well strange, maybe i knew myself some time ago but was in denial and only now see it, i have heard of couples being able to live side by side even after divorce and look out for each other still caring and loving each other but in a more platonic way.


I just dont get it it all seems odd to me but i feel calm and really quite happy about it tbh, is this normal.
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