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Old 8th May 2006, 09:05 PM   #31
Lovey
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Re: today

Oh Helen, that's just terrible. I have dealt with a few clients with issues related to cheating, but normally my client base come to me for sexual issues. I see that some good came out of the marriage- your son and maybe some wisdom. It's too bad that we sometimes have to learn the hard way.

Awe I'm sorry you can't find any blessings right now. It doesn't always work out especially if you're having a bad day or bad few days. I hear you although I think there must be some good in him.

Yeah, nobody truly knows what they'll do in that situation until they go through it. I like having discussions with my H about how we're both doing and what's going on with each other's lives often. Good open talks can discourage going outside the marriage. I think too,being honest. My H has issues with trust and that's why he has issues telling me about watching the porn. We're going to work on that to see if maybe he can broach me when he's feeling like he wants to watch.

If I had a wand, you guys would be first in line!



Hugs,
Lovey.
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Old 8th May 2006, 09:30 PM   #32
Helen
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Re: today

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovey
I like having discussions with my H about how we're both doing and what's going on with each other's lives often. Good open talks can discourage going outside the marriage. I think too,being honest.
Lovey,

I agree with this 100%. My problem was my ex never spoke to me. In all the years we were married, me made no effort to have a serious dialogue with me about our marital issues. To be honest, he was into porn too but it never bothered me. What bothered me was some of the other things he did (which I won't go into here but some of it was pretty traumatising). All he did was pout like a child, stamp his feet and accuse me of having a go at him, even when discussions started on the most innocuous basis.

My question to you is how do you get a partner to open up to you and have a reasoned dialogue when they accuse you of victimising them all the time? I would not mind but my ex refused to go to counselling too. I felt boxed into a corner with no way out. He told me he had his affair because the other woman (my brother's wife) did not give him a hard time about relationship issues. That wasn't surprising given that they only had a part time relationship (and even then it was more about the sex than anything else).


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Old 8th May 2006, 09:50 PM   #33
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Re: today

That's not easy to deal with. He sounds like my ex! Never talked about things and when it came time to separate he finally started to talk! Haha it was too late by then. That's why we broke up. I didn't like talking to a wall!
See that is interesting because my ex and I watched porn a little, together, he watched some alone and I didn't mind. He wasn't into hiding and lying about it, so that I think is why it didn't bug me at all.

I found that it has been easier for me to deal with clients and their spouses together for at the very least three sessions. This way they see that I'm not taking sides, and I give them homework to do. In marriage courses the therapist will have the couple sit knee to knee, facing one another. One partner will do the talking while one actively listens for 10 minutes until they switch roles. Once they switch roles, the listener gets to give their own interpretation about what the talker was trying to relay. (and vice versa)
As well, a good exercise is using 'I feel' statements, never 'you make me feel'. When you use "I feel like ___ when you do this" instead of "You make me feel like a __ when you do that" it will lessen the tension the other person feels when you're letting them know your feelings about something that has happenend. The big thing that I learned over the years was how to start a discussion. I have guidelines! Never discuss something that is ancient history unless there is something new you need to know about it- even then, let them know the reason why you're asking about it. When you open a dialogue, make sure it's when he isn't watching tv, or doing something constructive. If need be, ask him for an appointment to talk! When starting the discussion, let him know why you're opening up a dialogue and what you want to know. Try to keep it unemotional and calm and use those I feel sentences. Thank him for his honesty when you can- it'll support him in being more open and honest in the future. Play fair! End the discussion on a good note if it's possible- even if you are agreeing to disagree. I always mention that it's a good idea to touch, kiss, hug or even make love after. It's not rewarding behaviour but stating that you're in love even when you argue.

Does that help at all?

Your ex was silly to even think that what he had with the other woman was more than just a fling. Of course she didn't bug him about relationship issues. There was no relationship. The grass might be greener for a while, but not forever! In the end we're all the same!
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Old 8th May 2006, 10:21 PM   #34
Helen
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Re: today

Lovey,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, it does help. I will try the 'I feel like this when you do this' statements should such a situation arise in the future. But I doubt it will. My husband had some serious emotional and self-esteem issues. He could never support me emotionally. It turned out that he had a rough upbringing - his dad used to beat him a lot, apparently and if he showed pain that made things worse. As a consequence, he showed little emotion. He managed to hide this from me while we were courting and in the early days of our marriage. Then our real problems started. Without going into too much detail, I used to wake up and find my husband violating me. Unsurprisingly, I felt like I had been molested and like he had no respect for me. He treated me like a possession - like one of those inflated dolls. My issue was that he never talked to me about doing it. He had no permission. Even worse, despite me telling him it made me uncomfortable and asking him to stop, he kept on doing it and dismissed my complaints. This made me feel used and abused.

Strangely enough, we never really talked about it. I shut it out because it was too painful to deal with. But it lead to sexual problems between us. I found myself freezing every time he touched me. Where we had a lusty sex life in the past, I rarely initiated sex after that. I started covering up more. He saw all of this as a rejection of him but he wasn't willing to acknowledge his role in any of it. I should add that I was abused twice as a child. Indecently assaulted. When my husband did these things to me, it brought a lot of my feelings from that time to the surface and I spent a number of years suffering from clinical depression.

All of this said, because I shut it out, I never blamed my ex even though now, with hindsight, it was his fault that a lot of things happened. He knew my history and yet he still felt able to violate me - worse, in my sleep; a time when we are all vulnerable. That was bad enough but what really hurt was the fact that he would not acknowledge my feelings or the hurt he had caused.

When we had our discussions, it was more about current events on my part but on his, it was about stuff that belonged in the past. He complained about the fact that he felt rejected sexually. Because I had shut it out, I could not pinpoint why I felt the way I did about him but I admitted that yes, I was having a hard time having sex with him. He viewed this lack of desire for him as a rejection. Not once did he consider his own role in the whole sorry affair. On the other hand, I talked about things like the fact that we did not seem to be able to talk without arguing and, as a consequence, we could not resolve anything. I also talked about the emotional chasm between us. I felt that the reason I found sex so difficult was because we had no relationship outside the bedroom. No intimacy, no conversation. I admitted I felt like a prostitute because he expected me to have sex with him yet he treated me like a stranger. Of course, it was my problem again (according to him) yet I felt it was a serious issue.

Sorry to witter on! I have put it all on the table, despite saying I wouldn't. Part of the reason why I am not seriously looking for a man at the moment is because I am afraid the same thing will happen again. I don't feel frigid but the truth is, for the last 2 years of our marriage, we did not have sex at all. That wasn't because I didn't feel desire. I did. I just didn't want to have sex with him. He said there was something wrong with me. Is there?


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Old 8th May 2006, 10:49 PM   #35
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Re: today

Helen (RW),

Sorry I hijacked your thread. If you want me to move that last post to a new thread, let me know.


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Old 8th May 2006, 11:43 PM   #36
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Re: today

No need Helen !

Helen
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Old 9th May 2006, 03:53 AM   #37
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Helenrw, I'm really sorry about jacking the thread as well.

Helen:

I am sorry you were violated as a child and again now as an adult. You can always take care of your inner child in therapy. I had some issues from childhood that were coming back to haunt me in my late teens. It truly helped me.

What your ex did was abusive. (That pisses me off.) It's no wonder that you stopped feeling sexual towards him and it wouldn't suprise me if you thought that you had no sex drive at all during this time. That's all very normal from what you are describing. I would have felt the same and I don't have sexual abuse in my past. It's worse because he knew about your abuse and still did that to you. You're divorced now, right? What a relief.

He doesn't seem like he was very compassionate, seems almost neanderthal? Gosh, I don't mean to be rude, but - and I hope you don't take offence to that. It's just that you're so obviously intelligent. You really do know yourself, you're just a little unsure beacause of his abuse and the abuse you have sufferred years ago.

Everything you were feeling with him was justified from what I can see. It may have been hard for him to be anything more to you, probably to your brother's wife as well. (Ex, now right? Sorry. Just trying to get it all straight.) You need a man who has more on the ball, who can communicate and won't take your past and throw it at you.

I think it's great to take time out to be by yourself, frankly! I took three years after my ex and I split up and it was amicable! I had some growth to do and didn't want to be with someone until I had some things straightened out. I doubt that you are frigid, there might be some lasting effects for a while from the ex's behaviour but you pointedly said you didn't want to have sex with him anymore, didn't desire him. That's tough on a man's ego. I suppose on anyone's ego. Based on what you have said, I wouldn't say that you are frigid or that there is something wrong with you or that there ever was!

If you're still attracted to other men, still enjoy masturbation and feel good about yourself, chances are that when you're ready to find someone new, you'll be alright. This being said, you might still have some issues with sex because of what he did to you, but you can discuss boundaries with your counsellor if you have one. You can deal with any of that.

When there is little communication, it's hard to decipher what's going on. In your future relationship you will be better off for all you have gone through because you recognize things you don't want to happen again.
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Old 9th May 2006, 06:14 AM   #38
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Re: today

Helen,

There is nothing wrong with you like Lovey says you are obviously very intelligent, And very wise, He did violate you and the way you reacted is completely normal,
Have you delt with your past ?
I have spent years in and out of therapy trying to deal with my childhood and disfunctional family,
I have got there though,
My first serious boy friend had Helped himself to me without even asking I was woken in the night and his attitude was, What is my problem..... it only happened a couple of times but like you say it brought back a lot of my childhood bad memorys and I ended up being frightened of him, As long as he got what he wanted....It wasnt long after that I left him.

And you are also right about the prostitute part how when you cant get on every day and do not communicate can he expect you to be enthusiastic in the bedroom, Again like most men (sorry guys) They just dont get it. If you want the most out of your woman at night then treat her right throughout the day......................

Helen you are one of the most supporting honest people on this board and I for one hope that (if) my relationship goes belly up I will do what you have done take a couple of years out to concentrate on me and my boys,

You are a great exsample to women,

Take care,

Amanda x

Last edited by hoxton; 9th May 2006 at 06:20 AM.
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Old 9th May 2006, 09:08 AM   #39
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Re: today

Lovey/Amanda,

Thanks very much for your supportive words. They mean so much to me. I am sitting here crying! One thing I have realised is, although I had 2 years of pretty intense therapy, I do still have issues to deal with. So I have decided to find a psychosexual counsellor to help me put everything behind me - I will do this privately, if necessary.

My ex is most definitely my ex and thank God for that! After everything he did, he did not want to divorce. Yet he was still refusing to talk about our problems and was still refusing marriage counselling. He refused to break off contact with the other woman. Hell, he even refused to see someone about his own issues, which are myriad and which prevent him from being an emotional support to a woman. The joke was he asked me what he did wrong. He said he wanted to know for future reference. When I tried to answer his question, he threw another screaming tantrum and again told me that I was just having a go at him. The worst thing was when he did his impression of a brick wall - something he did frequently while we were married. I told him that this was precisely what I was talking about and was the reason why I was no longer willing to stay married to him. I had tried and tried and got nowhere with him. I don't think I am a slouch in the communication department, which made my inability to communicate with him even more stressful - if that is possible.

In the end, I told him if he wasn't willing to have marriage counselling or talk about our problems in an open, non-hostile, non-judgemental way, there was absolutely no point in continuing our marriage. After being separated for 4 months I filed for divorce and the divorce (on the grounds of his adultery) was finalised in March this year. And he was very bitter about it - he told me I had no intention of giving him a chance! This was despite the fact that he knew we could not move forward without help/talking through our problems properly, coming up with a plan to resolve them. He also refused to stop seeing the other woman - he said he felt responsible for her! He had nothing to say about his responsibility to me, his wife. He just couldn't see what he did wrong, I realise that now.

All of this said, when I found out about his affair, it just about destroyed me. Not so much that he had the affair, which was bad enough. But because he had the affair with my brother's wife. If it had been a stranger I would have coped better. He told her so many things about me and our relationship, much of it untrue but the thing that really bothered me is that should have been private. Between me and him. But he blabbed his mouth to someone else - her - and to me, that felt worse than anything. This woman told my brother that I was neglecting my husband's needs and behaved as though it was her right to swoop in and claim them for herself. She asked me what effort I had made to work on my marriage which, frankly, enraged me mightily. She has no idea what he was doing to me at night because he sugar coated everything and made me out to be a selfish, frigid cow.

But, you know, even though we had problems, I held onto the hope that we would be able to resolve things. I wasted a lot of years with him after he initially assaulted me (which happened 8 years into our marriage - we were together for more than 20 years) hoping that one day, he might be willing to do the work we needed to do to put things right. He never was. Now I feel like a fool for giving him my youth.

It is very strange but my ex fooled so many people. He looked gentle and like butter would not melt in his mouth. In many ways, he was a gentleman. He was (and is) really polite. He used to hold open doors for me. Take my coat, help me be seated. Which made the more 'Neanderthal' aspects of his personality that much harder to deal with. I felt like he had deceived me by pretending to be this other person for so long. And he had. But I was young when we got together (19) and was too inexperienced, perhaps, to see him for what he was

I wouldn't say he lacks intelligence. But when we got together we were doing similar jobs (we worked in a shop and he was my boss). Several things happened in tandem to shift the dynamic between us. He was always a bit immature and, while he was managing a part of the business, he used to indulge in horseplay with the men who worked for him. He did not perform in a leadership role. It turned out they all made some weapons and used to fire them at each other, for laughs. The weapons were found and, since my ex was the boss and was in charge when all of this was going on, he was stripped of his promotion and given very menial things to do. Again, he blamed his employers - he refused to see that he had left himself exposed by doing such stupid things. To be honest, I was very angry with him because at the time, we had a newborn baby and a limited income (he was the only one working because I was still on maternity leave). We went from having money to having to shop in Victor Value and from market stalls. Then I left the shop and joined the Civil Service and was promoted several times in rapid succession. At the point of divorcing I earned twice what he did. He said it didn't bother him but I am not so sure. While in the Civil Service I did a BA in Politics and an MBA and, of course, I changed. Became more outspoken, perhaps more eloquent. And my debates were based in logic and analysis - more strategic. He always said he 'could not win in a debate with me' which is why he never tried to talk things through and indulged in tantrums instead. At the time I was also devoting more time to my job. 3 years after I joined the Civil Service, he violated me for the first of many times.

I realise now that all of these things made him feel even more insecure in our relationship, although he was happy that I was earning so much money. He became pretty clingy because he thought I would run off with someone else. This annoyed me - the thought never entered my mind - and I did my best to reassure him, to no avail. I suspect his way of feeling more control was by doing the things he did to me in bed at night. I am not saying he was right - I am just trying to think about things from his POV - tryiing to make some sense of why he destroyed things between us so completely.

To this day he blames me. The other woman (who he has continued his relationship with) hates my guts. I still find myself searching for answers but I know too that I will not get them from him. And here I am, today. Divorced, a lone parent and wondering what the Hell happened between us. I doubt I will ever understand fully. And as each day passes, I care less. He has been relegated to the annals of ancient history.

I just read an agony aunt letter from someone who was abused in childhood and the reply gave a number to contact for counselling services. I am going to go now and give them a ring.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply to me - and sorry to witter on again!


Helen
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Old 9th May 2006, 04:03 PM   #40
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Helen,

You are not wittering on, You listen and give advice to so many people so when ever you fancy a witter I will always be here to listen to you.

I am glad you are gonna contact the counciling services, It will be good for you, Let us know how you get on.

Guilty people always attack and it is the same with your ex that will also explane why she hates you so much,
She proberley knows that she does not come any where near your standards and anyway let him violate her she deserves it for being a home wrecker and you deserve so much more any man that is fortunate enough to have you has his other half will be one lucky man.

I too feel sometimes he has taken my best years but we can look at it this way we have grown and learned a lot in these years and will be better equipped to choose a better spouce ( hopefully )

Hugs,

Amanda x
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Old 9th May 2006, 11:03 PM   #41
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I liked your in depth reply, because it helps us to see who he was and the dynamics between you two. I'm going to answer more later, but thought I'd add that you are right. He did those things to you to control you, to victimize you so you wouldn't leave him. He's smarter than I gave him credit for. Sick, too. I know you're not trying to stick up for him but to find answers.
Amanda, that just makes me so sad that your boyfriend helped himself as well. What the heck is going on with people today? I've

I'm not feeling well today but will post more, later. Hugs to you all!
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Old 10th May 2006, 08:12 PM   #42
Helen
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Re: today

Lovey,

Sorry to hear you were not feeling well yesterday. I hope you are feeling a bit better today. I have a cold but I feel like Hell because my immune system is compromised. I have not been able to do any work for the last couple of days but tomorrow is another day. I am hoping I will feel better! That said, I am still having to do housework - one of the pain in the rear things that you still have to do when you are alone and unwell.

My ex's sister describes him as 'manipulative'. I say the same thing. She told me that no one believed her because of the persona he presents so it was almost a relief for her to hear me say the same thing. But he is manipulative. When I was in in therapy, the people who were in there with me hated him - including my counsellors. They felt the same thing about him. He used to say things like 'I lost my job because of you' (he felt that he lost his promotion and lost out on opportunities because I was black and he was white). He felt he was punished more severely for the horseplay incident because he was dating a black woman. He did not say anything about the fact that before me, he was dating another black woman for 2 years. I was hardly the first and, after his other girlfriend, his employers had to know where his preferences were...

There was no mention of his role in the whole non-leadership/weapons debacle either (he played the village idiot when he should have been a leader). It was all down to me, according to him. I did not feel the same because, of course, I NEVER did anything this stupid with any of the people I worked with! Plus, I managed to join the Civil Service and get promotion several times - despite my colour. Indeed, I did not see why colour was such a big deal to anyone - I still don't. I asked him to join the Civil Service too, especially after I got the second promotion. Yes, he would have been paid less in the short-medium term but he would have had a better job, Mon-Fri hours, better pay for the hours he was working and the prospect of bettering himself, without our relationship being a consideration. He refused. Now I know he refused because he resented my job. He resented the effort and time I gave to it but when you earn what I earn, you have to work for it! He felt that my job should have been put last all the time, yet it was the very thing that enabled us to survive on the back of his idiotic behaviour. Instead he kept bleating on about what he endured for me. But as far as I am concerned, that was his choice (if, indeed, he endured anything). I was hardly the first! And there was no mention of the same opposition (from the establishment and my own community) that I endured for him.

Even though I see the indepth reply too, all it serves to do is make me question why the Hell I stayed with this clown! I should have looked at everything sooner but, like my parents, I viewed the ups and downs of married life as something to be endured. I endured too much for too long. If I had been smarter I would have asked more questions and done something more conclusive, sooner. Ah well...

I hope you feel better today


Helen

PS: Amanda - sorry to hear your man did the same thing to you. I do wonder what the heck is going on with men like that? Surely they know what they are doing is wrong - don't they? I just wish I had done what you did and walked out on my ex's sorry arse much sooner...H
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Old 11th May 2006, 08:47 AM   #43
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Hi Helen,

I only walked out because I was young and had no kids I moved in with him when I was 16 and left when I was 18 but I was going out with him since I was 15, and I think I knew that as I was getting older that the fact he was trying to get hold of me since I was just 15 even poss 14 was not right, I was not a forward girl I never started my periods untill I was nearly 16 so my body was very much like how you would expect a ten year old to look....
When your young you feel your all grown up but it isnt untill you grow up you actually realize this man who was trying to get hold of you was 22 and I was 15 still at school and like I said was very young I was still playing run outs around the flats........ So when I woke in the night to find him on top of me that was my wake up call, I knew there was something not right about him.
I only saw him a few times after that but he has lost the plot went all crazy and religious, His sister had called me to tell me that he was looking for me. He was walking the street with a tea towle on his head screaming " Amanda you have to come home now" My family thought it was funny but I was scared. Then one day I saw him up the local market I left preety quick, The next day after my H went to work there was a knock at the door I thought my H left his keys or something so I told my 5 yr old to open the door for Daddy, I could here him saying Hello my name is john, The panic that went through me oh my god I ran out and grabbed my boy pulled him in and shut the door he was kicking my door saying you have to come home it is time to come home now... He was going on about me being the virgin mary and that my son was his by imacualate conception He ran before the police got to my home, They did find him and they arrested him put him on remand and moved me to another area so he could not find me. I have only seen him once since then but his family tell me he is still the same and that he went to see aladin 7 times because he thought the women in it was me.............. He needs help but wont get it he smokes to much dope.
Him finding me to this day is my biggest fear.
My H did not take it seriously, My Dad found his and told him to stay away from me and all he would say to my Dad is she has to come home,

Thats why I desperately want my marraige to work my H is the first person in my life who is "normal" ish he does not do drugs he is settled and secure and wants to raise his kids right my family are really dissfunctional and I have worked so hard to break away from them and not raise my kids around them I want to break the chain and I have but I soppose I am scared that if I dont have him I might end up getting sucked back in. They all say I am only the way I am because of him and I know they would love to see my marraige crumble and see me on the floor just so they can say see your just like the rest of us, But I am not I never was I always knew I was different and I always knew I would be more.
We all laugh about it and say I must of been swapped at birth, They can change if they want too but they like living the way they do.

Dont know why I am banging on about all of this I just think that if you know a bit about my past it can help you understand why I want my marraige to work so much.

Take care,

Amanda x

Last edited by hoxton; 11th May 2006 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 11th May 2006, 03:25 PM   #44
Helen
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Re: today

Amanda,

It sounds to me as though you had a lucky escape from your former boyfriend. You are right - he sounds a bit perverted - plus it is clear that he wasn't playing with a full deck of cards anyway. This is the kind of person that ends up obsessive and killing their partner. Your husband should be more concerned. This man turned up at your former home and tried to kick the door in. What on earth would have happened if he had managed to get in? I am not surprised you are still frightened that he might find you. The man sounds dangerous but then they say weed does that to some people. Alas, I doubt he will recover, even if he stops the dope...If you don't have one, consider getting yourself one of these personal alarms that shrieks really loudly. I think they are called rape alarms. That way, if he approaches you again, you can set it off and hopefully someone will come to rescue you.

I know you want your marriage to work but I wanted to say that your husband isn't the only normal bloke out there! There are plenty of others. But I understand that you love this man and want to be with him too. That said, you would be endangering your own wellbeing (in terms of your mental health) by clinging onto a relationship that might not be working just to prove a point to your family. I am not saying this is what is happening now. What I am saying is it may be necessary to move on one day and you should not let what others might think influence your actions. Ultimately you have to do what is best for you and the kids and hanging around in a marriage where there are ongoing questions about fidelity and honesty would do none of you any good.

A dysfunctional family seems to be the lot of an awful lot of us. Most people who have met my mother and my siblings say I am the only normal person out of all of them. We had a pretty rough upbringing (my dad drank and beat us all every day) and that left mental scars. My brother and sister are very angry people (I coped with my childhood by being studious and dealt with my own anger via therapy as an adult). My siblings go on and on about life, the lack of opportunities they have had and the fact that their colour has disadvantaged them. Sigh. Well, they had access to the same opportunities as me and I am darker than my sister but that didn't hold me back! I did suggest to my sister that she think about therapy as she is so angry that it has aged her. She is only 11 months older than me but she looks a lot older because she is always scowling and has, as a consequence, developed lots of frown lines. She is less angry now but she hasn't had any therapy to date...

I can understand your fear of being sucked back into your dysfunctional family if things don't work out between you and your husband but I can tell you now - it will never happen. Why do I say this? Because you are completely different from them and because you have no desire to live in the same way as they do. This is a choice YOU have made. It is nothing to do with your husband and you know it. I am pretty sure if they tried to get you to adopt their way of doing things, you would refuse. Do not let your fear stop you from doing whatever might be necessary in the long term to secure your happiness. You sound like a strong woman and a moral one too. From what I can tell, there is no danger of you going down any path that you do not want to tread. Even if your marriage crumbles (and let's face it, many do) it still won't mean you are just like them. Not at all. All it means is your marriage ended.

Take care Amanda and thanks for sharing your background with us. It did help me to understand why you are hanging in there in the face of some dubious behaviour on your husband's part.


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Old 11th May 2006, 06:01 PM   #45
hoxton
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Re: today

Helen,

What you say is true, I know I wont go back down that path I and I mean I not my H have worked hard to get where I am and even if my marraige crumbles I will never be like them I will not have my boys grow up with a junkie mum or a mum that drags them around all the pubs. That is why I am glad I found this site because I have to surround my self with sensible people who know the difference between right and wrong. It helps keep me strong because when you are always around people that have no morals sometimes you question yourself ( maybe I am just to fussy or over the top ) They all say come on we have to be on our best behaviour Amandas here, I dont try and win them over any more I am proud of who I am and I would be this way without my H. ( I hope )

I have told my H do not take the fact that I come from a screwed up family as my weekness and think that I will not leave you because I will if you ever hurt me again it will be over and I just hope that by then I will be strong enough to stand on my own as a woman and a mother and I would love to take a couple of years out and have no man in my life just me and my boys like you have Helen.
I am hoping we can make things better and our marraige will work but in the mean time I am doing a lot of work on me so that I can be emotionaly ready if need be. Untill then I will keep trying but if It ever got to the stage where I was unhappy everyday and it was affecting my boys then I would leave, My kids are what make me strong. I have never understood women that have stayed in marraiges when their children are very obviously being damaged.

Thanks again Helen.

Take care

Amanda x
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